Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2022

[Lee]

Unless Slott asked for that story or something.

More often than not, writers pitch the stories. It's unlikely that the editor said "Dan, you're writing an MJ story. Neil, you're writing a Scorpion story. Kurt, you're writing a Jameson story."

[Matt Rat]

Despite her unexpected success, Marvel seems to have thrown Mayday under the rug. This likely stems from her ties to the Clone Saga, as well as her representing actual growth and development in a character who is supposed to be defined by it. Here's a look at the best take on the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Girl, as well as why Marvel editorial seems to hate her

https://www.cbr.com/mayday-best-spid...er-man-marvel/

[TinkerSpider]

Why would the Marvel brass want to make readers mad? Seems more likely to be something along the lines of a miscommunication or something.

Why? Outrage sells books. Just ask Tom Brevoort.

Unless Slott asked for that story or something.

Slott can ask to be High Grand Pooh-Bah of Latveria.

Editorial doesn’t have to give it to him. That is the entity whose intellectual acumen is being questioned. Why the %#@& would anyone allow Slott to write an “enduring love” Peter and MJ story? This is the man who had MJ reject Peter yet again as one of his last acts on the title even as Spencer was coming in to reunite them.

Editorial can also ask writers to pitch. Would love to know if they even mentioned to DeMatteis - again, currently working on a title for them so they have his phone number - if he had any ideas for AF 1000.

I mean, as noted above it's highly unlikely that the Powers That Be want to tick off their readers and/or damage the brand.

A) Brevoort was clear controversy sells books for Marvel while happy fans do not buy as many books (meaning they are going for the edge cases who pick stories because they’ve heard something, and who will drop the book when the controversy goes away).

B) Intent is not execution. Also, execution can have unintended consequences, such as trying to get rid of the marriage and turning Peter Parker into a moral villain who feeds the Devil, thus making the Devil stronger and able to enact even more misery on humanity.

Well, he did make it work with the RYV story, so he can do it. I mean, if it wasn't for his spotty work on the main series, I doubt we'd be having this conversation (while it might be odd on paper to have someone who dislikes the Peter/MJ marriage write a story on the subject, it's not a problem if they're willing to set their biases aside and give their best at the assignment).

Slott did not set his biases aside. I know people enjoyed his RYV because it was a fairly positive take on MJ & the relationship, plus the readership had been purposefully starved of any positive depictions (and whose fault was that?) so any crumbs were gratefully received:

But his entire point was marriage and a family would cause Peter to become a killer and betray his baseline morality. His entire point was a successful relationship would break the heroic concept of the comic.

He’s wrong, because characters only do what authors make them do. But that was the point of the story.

[Tabs]

You make a very excellent and very heartbreaking point there. We've mostly thought about Dark Reign in context of how it affected Peter (and Harry, since Harry was Norman's son), but Mary Jane's perspective, being about equally close to Peter, Harry, and (the late, lamented) Gwen, went completely ignored and unaddressed. Real shame.

I appreciate you saying so. Writers almost never bring up Gwen Stacy when it affects other people except to blame Peter for something he never did. Fans wouldn't be set so firmly against her if her memory wasn't always used to attack either Peter Parker or as competition for MJ from beyond the grave. Some flashbacks of the two young women razzing each other and being openly cordial would be nice. If we're going to fixate on youth, maybe there should be more slice-of-life character studies with the childhood of Mary Jane, Peter Parker, and his younger friend group without the presence of villains.

More often than not, writers pitch the stories. It's unlikely that the editor said "Dan, you're writing an MJ story. Neil, you're writing a Scorpion story. Kurt, you're writing a Jameson story."

Division of labor. I like it.

https://www.cbr.com/mayday-best-spid...er-man-marvel/

I did enjoy Mayday.

[Matt Rat]

Slott did not set his biases aside. I know people enjoyed his RYV because it was a fairly positive take on MJ & the relationship, plus the readership had been purposefully starved of any positive depictions (and whose fault was that?) so any crumbs were gratefully received:

But his entire point was marriage and a family would cause Peter to become a killer and betray his baseline morality. His entire point was a successful relationship would break the heroic concept of the comic.

You're only looking at the beginning of the story and not the ending where Peter draws on the strength of his love for Annie to renew his vow not to kill, in the end, it's family that brings him back from the brink of worse crimes. And from there, the Parker family are depicted even more positively, albeit with missteps here and there, and it culminates in Annie being trained to become a god. The marriage from RYV ultimately became one of the more successful iterations of the concept.

That's not exclusively down to Slott, more down to Conway, Stegman, and Houser, but I do not fault his own contribution whatsoever. I may not wear a broken watch, but I acknowledge when it's right twice a day.

[TinkerSpider]

You're only looking at the beginning of the story and not the ending where Peter draws on the strength of his love for Annie to renew his vow not to kill, in the end, it's family that brings him back from the brink of worse crimes. And from there, the Parker family are depicted even more positively, albeit with missteps here and there, and it culminates in Annie being trained to become a god. The marriage from RYV ultimately became one of the more successful iterations of the concept.

That's not exclusively down to Slott, more down to Conway, Stegman, and Houser, but I do not fault his own contribution whatsoever. I may not wear a broken watch, but I acknowledge when it's right twice a day.

No, he doesn’t renew his vow not to kill. MJ asks him if he would have killed Regent and while Peter doesn’t answer in words, the expression on MJ’s face in response to how Peter looks at her is sad/shocked, making it clear he would have. 834A3F8C-3556-4364-ABF4-1BDE1F559851.jpg

The “vow” he renews is “with great power, etc” - he hung up the webs and by the end, he’s back to helping others.

And yes, any further development is due to Conway and Hauser.

[Frontier]

https://www.cbr.com/mayday-best-spid...er-man-marvel/

I don't think most people associate Spider-Girl with the Clone Saga.

[Ursalink]

https://www.cbr.com/mayday-best-spid...er-man-marvel/

How can Marvel hate one of its most successful creations? Are they idiots or what?

[Malachi]

How can Marvel hate one of its most successful creations? Are they idiots or what?

Any book, blog or other source that deals with behind the scenes stuff say: Yes. Who says otherwise: the people in charge.

Marvel has a habit of biting the hand that feeds them. Often by using creativity as an excuse while it often is more about egos and insecure people.

Marvel could hire people who don't do this but the internal process seems pretty good for filtering out people who thinks differently. Look at the succession order Quesada-> Brevort -> Cebulski.

If anyone of us got in there with radical ideas like "Marriage is ok" we would be fought all the way.

[Kevinroc]

https://www.cbr.com/mayday-best-spid...er-man-marvel/

I'm just waiting for Sony to put her in a movie. It's going to happen someday.

[Lee]

How can Marvel hate one of its most successful creations? Are they idiots or what?

Spider-Girl isn't one of Marvel's most successful creations and Marvel doesn't hate the series or character.

Slott can ask to be High Grand Pooh-Bah of Latveria.

Editorial doesn’t have to give it to him. That is the entity whose intellectual acumen is being questioned. Why the %#@& would anyone allow Slott to write an “enduring love” Peter and MJ story?

Presumably because the editor liked the story that was pitched.

A comic book editor isn't unintelligent for working with a writer whose stories you personally dislike.

[Ursalink]

Spider-Girl isn't one of Marvel's most successful creations and Marvel doesn't hate the series or character.

Is she not? Well I remember a big fanbase that still survives nowadays around the adventures of Peter and MJ's daughter. I think Marvel did something GREAT with her creation. As for Marvel, if they don't hate her, why do they treat her so badly?

[Matt Rat]

Is she not? Well I remember a big fanbase that still survives nowadays around the adventures of Peter and MJ's daughter. I think Marvel did something GREAT with her creation. As for Marvel, if they don't hate her, why do they treat her so badly?

Editorial always wanted her to be edgy, Tom D and Frenz blocked them at every turn. When Slott took over, making her edgy was the first time he did by killing her dad. The fact her dad was revived later as an afterthought and they haven't bothered showing him reunite with his daughter or wife and son tells you all you need to know about how well they regard MC2.

MC2 was always allowed, somehow, to be the happy ending, the natural end to Peter's story, it represents everything current editorial stand against in regards to the character, it provides fans with a jumping-off point too. Doesn't matter if it's a possible future/alternate reality, because it adheres to the original pre-OMD continuity and ignores all the years where things really went wrong. No Mackie/Byrne, no Spider-Totem (if you perceive that as bad), no Sins Past, no Civil War, no OMD, no Silk, no Superior. None of it. Simpler times, happier days.

As for Lee's comments...Spider-Girl is indeed one of Marvel's cult success stories. Longest running uninterrupted female superhero spin-off title. People like optimistic stories. Who knew?

[TinkerSpider]

Spider-Girl isn't one of Marvel's most successful creations and Marvel doesn't hate the series or character.

She’s only the star of the longest-running superhero book with a lead female character ever published by Marvel but sure.

Presumably because the editor liked the story that was pitched.

A comic book editor isn't unintelligent for working with a writer whose stories you personally dislike.

Speaking of Spider-Girl, Lowe also approved Slott killing MC2 Peter which…..the mind boggles even more. So I stand by my assertion.

I dislike poorly crafted, flat stories that are nothing but repetitive action until a deus ex machina shows up, hackneyed dialogue, and plastic action figures instead of characters. Thanks for noticing!

Bringing it back around to MJ, before the thread is derailed even more: what are people’s favorite stories from the marriage era since Slott asserted no one could name one (which, I will point out, is an unfair question because MJ isn’t the star of the book - if the question had been “what are your favorite marriage era stories,” the answer would be far different)? Here are some of mine outside of KLH and To Have and To Hold:

The Child Within/Death of Harry Osborn
MJ beats up the Chameleon
MJ escapes from Jonathon Caesar
Spider-Man 15 (Team up with Beast - MJ and Peter talk about kids)
I have a guilty pleasure fondness for Torment
Spider-Man 75 - tragic but well told
ASM 400
Doomed Affairs

That’s just off the top of my head…

[Huntsman Spider]

https://www.cbr.com/mayday-best-spid...er-man-marvel/

Pretty much this, sadly.

I appreciate you saying so. Writers almost never bring up Gwen Stacy when it affects other people except to blame Peter for something he never did. Fans wouldn't be set so firmly against her if her memory wasn't always used to attack either Peter Parker or as competition for MJ from beyond the grave. Some flashbacks of the two young women razzing each other and being openly cordial would be nice. If we're going to fixate on youth, maybe there should be more slice-of-life character studies with the childhood of Mary Jane, Peter Parker, and his younger friend group without the presence of villains.


Division of labor. I like it.


I did enjoy Mayday.

You're very welcome.

How can Marvel hate one of its most successful creations? Are they idiots or what?

Any book, blog or other source that deals with behind the scenes stuff say: Yes. Who says otherwise: the people in charge.

Marvel has a habit of biting the hand that feeds them. Often by using creativity as an excuse while it often is more about egos and insecure people.

Marvel could hire people who don't do this but the internal process seems pretty good for filtering out people who thinks differently. Look at the succession order Quesada-> Brevort -> Cebulski.

If anyone of us got in there with radical ideas like "Marriage is ok" we would be fought all the way.

Technically, the Marvel editor-in-chief between Quesada and Cebulski was Axel Alonso. Tom Brevoort was never EIC, though he was in a similarly high executive position with Marvel, the name of which I sadly can't recall right now, and he did use that position to collaborate with Quesada in establishing the framework for eliminating the Spider-Marriage going forward.