Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2022

[Kaitou D. Kid]

The idea that Peter and MJ married to have kids is nonsense. Peter and MJ aren't against having kids, but they were never rushing or dying to have kids either. The only exception was during the Clone Saga when they were written out. (It's also why I don't mind 616 retconning Baby May, since it wasn't a natural transition).

Also, "all the stories still happened only they weren't married" still doesn't explain why they broke up. If the only thing that didn't happen is them signing the marriage papers, how does that mean they broke up? Does legal status count more than the bond two people developed? Marriage is an important mileage, yes, but even most married couples wouldn't say that signing the papers was the end-all-be-all of their relationship.

OMD basically told the world that a couple can't function or be together indefinitely if they don't get married. And OMIT told the world that marriage is only for having kids. Both are 1950's preconceived notions, not at all compatible with Peter and MJ or even with most New Yorkers in their age group today.

[Kevinroc]

I never liked the rationale they used to write out the pregnancy because it made MJ sound too conservative, which she definitely isn't.

Also, they broke up because someone with a gun threatened her family feels pretty artificial when she stayed with Peter despite Norman Osborn being alive and terrorizing them.

[TinkerSpider]

I never liked the rationale they used to write out the pregnancy because it made MJ sound too conservative, which she definitely isn't.

Also, they broke up because someone with a gun threatened her family feels pretty artificial when she stayed with Peter despite Norman Osborn being alive and terrorizing them.

I mean, waaay back in Amazing Spider-Man 59 by Lee and Romita, MJ had a gun pulled on her because she was a go go dancer in a club run by bad guys. In her very first appearance she ran toward the Rhino fight, not away from it. She was kidnapped by Jonathon Caesar because he was obsessed with her, not because of Spider-Man. She was stalked by the security guard at Secret Hospital because of her work on the soap. MJ's life has been full of danger just for being MJ (which, let's face it, is a byproduct for every citizen of the Marvel Universe just by living in it) so every time a hack writer pulls the "Oh, Peter I love you but your life is too dangerous for little ol' helpless me" card it just proves they don't understand the character, don't understand her world, and don't understand the continuity.

Also, it makes Peter look like an uncaring hypocrite because by continuing to be Spider-Man, he is putting Aunt May's life in mortal danger by this reasoning given to MJ by hacks. I mean, if Peter really loved Aunt May and his #1 responsibility is to ensure she keeps living, to the point that he gives the devil exactly what the devil wants, then he should give up being Spider-Man to keep May safe. Especially since May doesn't know he is Spider-Man and so he is taking away her agency as to whether she wants to still be involved in his "dangerous" life or not. Just sayin'.

[Mercwmouth12]

I never liked the rationale they used to write out the pregnancy because it made MJ sound too conservative, which she definitely isn't.

Also, they broke up because someone with a gun threatened her family feels pretty artificial when she stayed with Peter despite Norman Osborn being alive and terrorizing them.

Plus MJ even used a gun on Norman when he was threatening Peter. Wil be curious how strong or different she'll be in the Jed mini as tied to the plot going on and if the current plot with her will actually be thrown away or dismissed soon

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I never liked the rationale they used to write out the pregnancy because it made MJ sound too conservative, which she definitely isn't.

Peter and MJ definitely aren't that conservative.

My beef with love interests like Carlie Cooper, besides the notion that Peter needs a "proper girl" and the sexism that comes with that, is that Peter ain't that "proper" either. Not if we look at how he acts as Spider-Man (no different from how MJ acts).

If writers don't get that, they very likely don't get Peter either.

[maryjane]

yesterday we've talked a lot about the time Mary Jane was working for Stark... just wanted to show you a quite funny thing

[Huntsman Spider]

The idea that Peter and MJ married to have kids is nonsense. Peter and MJ aren't against having kids, but they were never rushing or dying to have kids either. The only exception was during the Clone Saga when they were written out. (It's also why I don't mind 616 retconning Baby May, since it wasn't a natural transition).

Also, "all the stories still happened only they weren't married" still doesn't explain why they broke up. If the only thing that didn't happen is them signing the marriage papers, how does that mean they broke up? Does legal status count more than the bond two people developed? Marriage is an important mileage, yes, but even most married couples wouldn't say that signing the papers was the end-all-be-all of their relationship.

OMD basically told the world that a couple can't function or be together indefinitely if they don't get married. And OMIT told the world that marriage is only for having kids. Both are 1950's preconceived notions, not at all compatible with Peter and MJ or even with most New Yorkers in their age group today.

I never liked the rationale they used to write out the pregnancy because it made MJ sound too conservative, which she definitely isn't.

Also, they broke up because someone with a gun threatened her family feels pretty artificial when she stayed with Peter despite Norman Osborn being alive and terrorizing them.

I mean, waaay back in Amazing Spider-Man 59 by Lee and Romita, MJ had a gun pulled on her because she was a go go dancer in a club run by bad guys. In her very first appearance she ran toward the Rhino fight, not away from it. She was kidnapped by Jonathon Caesar because he was obsessed with her, not because of Spider-Man. She was stalked by the security guard at Secret Hospital because of her work on the soap. MJ's life has been full of danger just for being MJ (which, let's face it, is a byproduct for every citizen of the Marvel Universe just by living in it) so every time a hack writer pulls the "Oh, Peter I love you but your life is too dangerous for little ol' helpless me" card it just proves they don't understand the character, don't understand her world, and don't understand the continuity.

Also, it makes Peter look like an uncaring hypocrite because by continuing to be Spider-Man, he is putting Aunt May's life in mortal danger by this reasoning given to MJ by hacks. I mean, if Peter really loved Aunt May and his #1 responsibility is to ensure she keeps living, to the point that he gives the devil exactly what the devil wants, then he should give up being Spider-Man to keep May safe. Especially since May doesn't know he is Spider-Man and so he is taking away her agency as to whether she wants to still be involved in his "dangerous" life or not. Just sayin'.

Plus MJ even used a gun on Norman when he was threatening Peter. Wil be curious how strong or different she'll be in the Jed mini as tied to the plot going on and if the current plot with her will actually be thrown away or dismissed soon

Peter and MJ definitely aren't that conservative.

My beef with love interests like Carlie Cooper, besides the notion that Peter needs a "proper girl" and the sexism that comes with that, is that Peter ain't that "proper" either. Not if we look at how he acts as Spider-Man (no different from how MJ acts).

If writers don't get that, they very likely don't get Peter either.

Cosigning all of you, generally speaking, but especially Kaitou D. Kid's last post, which goes right into a (frankly) two-faced tendency Marvel creatives and editors seem to have, where they'll promote her in "fanservice"-style art to draw eyeballs to Spider-Man, but then imply if not outright state that because she's a more "liberated" female character, she's not "good enough" to be the wife or even longtime love interest of Marvel's number-one superhero character.

[Lukmendes]

This discussion and the contradicting continuity (some characters remember, some don't, it was implied MJ remembers the marriage in BND but that was dropped, the baby has never been mentioned past OMD) just proves that Marvel has no idea what OMD/OMIT really meant for the characters and their world and is just more proof of what a terrible, inorganic story concept it was/is.

Quesada is the one who said "all the stories still happened only they weren't married" at the time of OMD but then turned around and had MJ say in OMIT the only reason to be married was to have kids and she refused to have kids with Peter because of Spider-Man - which is....no, not going to get into the regressive politics of this but just pointing out having children has zero to do with marriage - and he's said that means the pregnancy and Baby May did NOT happen so Quesada himself has been highly contradictory.

So again, all this shows is that OMD/OMIT is a stain on Spider-Man and will always be what Quesada is best known for. Enjoy your legacy, Joe (which also makes me wonder if Joe approved Nick Spencer retconning OMD so Joe's legacy would be less stained, but when they discovered Joe was leaving Marvel the higher ups remaining decided to kibosh the retcon and began to interfere with Spencer's overall plot. I have no proof other than the timing works out, but it's a theory.)

With how comics are made ahead of time, with Quesada only leaving in 2022 after Beyond ended, Beyond being started as far back as 2020, and from what I hear, Quesada not having any real power once he was kicked upstairs, I doubt editorial interference in Spencer's run had really anything to do with him in any way.

It is a possibility though, but I have my doubts.

The idea that Peter and MJ married to have kids is nonsense. Peter and MJ aren't against having kids, but they were never rushing or dying to have kids either. The only exception was during the Clone Saga when they were written out. (It's also why I don't mind 616 retconning Baby May, since it wasn't a natural transition).

Also, "all the stories still happened only they weren't married" still doesn't explain why they broke up. If the only thing that didn't happen is them signing the marriage papers, how does that mean they broke up? Does legal status count more than the bond two people developed? Marriage is an important mileage, yes, but even most married couples wouldn't say that signing the papers was the end-all-be-all of their relationship.

OMD basically told the world that a couple can't function or be together indefinitely if they don't get married. And OMIT told the world that marriage is only for having kids. Both are 1950's preconceived notions, not at all compatible with Peter and MJ or even with most New Yorkers in their age group today.

Women are biologically incapable of having kids unless they're married man, it's science.

I never liked the rationale they used to write out the pregnancy because it made MJ sound too conservative, which she definitely isn't.

Also, they broke up because someone with a gun threatened her family feels pretty artificial when she stayed with Peter despite Norman Osborn being alive and terrorizing them.

I mean, Norman doesn't have a gun, that makes him less dangerous .

Peter and MJ definitely aren't that conservative.

My beef with love interests like Carlie Cooper, besides the notion that Peter needs a "proper girl" and the sexism that comes with that, is that Peter ain't that "proper" either. Not if we look at how he acts as Spider-Man (no different from how MJ acts).

If writers don't get that, they very likely don't get Peter either.

Writers can have really, weird ideas on who Spidey is.

Like, there's this gem from Slott's run:



(ASM#652)

While the obvious point to make is "How in the fuck hell does MJ knowing that Peter is Spidey since the beginning mean she only loves Spider-Man?", it's also worth pointing out that it's very questionable for Peter to think of himself as just "plain ol' Pete", this is a dumb silver age logic, a dumb silver age logic that wasn't even in Ditko's run, since the drama with Betty happened because he's more than Peter, he's also Spider-Man, the kind of man Betty hates.

Ultimately Spider-Man is part of him, a huge part, he's not just Peter Parker, so Slott making it so Peter thinks of himself as just Peter, and dismisses MJ because she knew all along, it's just so questionable.

Now, I don't like the Parallel Lives retcon with her knowing he's Spider-Man since way before she met Peter, DeFalco originally kept vague enough in that "I've known for years" line (And even then, a detail I noticed recently where MJ said in ASM#258 "It's true. It's all true!" when she sees Felicia jumping into his apartment, that makes it sound like MJ wasn't actually sure until that), it'd normally be assumed it was at some point after she met Peter, but either way, while I don't like that retcon, MJ knowing for this long means she had two years to absorb that information, made her own theories about who Peter is as a person, and while she definitely had a crush on Spider-Man, and that was the reason why she avoided him, which eventually made her curious enough to decide to meet him, while that can mean she's thinking about the Spidey side more than the Peter one, ultimately? Whatever, she got to know the Peter side while also knowing what he does as Spider-Man, and once she revealed she knows, they got closer to each other and MJ started to understand more why Peter is Spider-Man, which means that in the end, she loved him for who he is as a whole, not just the Spider-Guy who punches villains in the face, or just the nerd with money problems.

[Mercwmouth12]

Capture.jpg

From here onward smooth and bumpy sailing/turbulence ahead

[Huntsman Spider]

Capture.jpg

From here onward smooth and bumpy sailing/turbulence ahead

Indeed. Still a beautiful moment there.

[Matt Rat]

ASM#10

spoilers:

Hmm, so Peter lost a loved one, Norman was the only one who tried to help, and it didn't pan out?

end of spoilers

[Mercwmouth12]

SPOILER_unknown.jpg

Nick may have spoiled the mystery

[Frontier]

SPOILER_unknown.jpg

Nick may have spoiled the mystery

Sounds like there's going to be a follow up to the movie plot?

[Matt Rat]

SPOILER_unknown.jpg

Nick may have spoiled the mystery

Considering the rumours that Spencer is coming back to Marvel, it would make sense to set the run up as a spiritual sequel to his run

[rward777]

Indeed. Still a beautiful moment there.

Nice that Peter got to see Gwen one more time. Odd that the celestial chose to reward Peter after passing him when it did not reward the others it passed.