Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2022

[spiderlink]

Editorial clearly favored a status quo that lets creative teams decide what they want to do about Peter and MJ. Although I have wondered if they plan on stepping in and putting their foot down in the future given the reception to this run.

I think the same, the next writer has to be seeing all the backlash of this run.
In regards of MJ, i think something happened to her that changed her, I personally think that Ben and Madeline had something to do with all of this.

[Mercwmouth12]

I think the same, the next writer has to be seeing all the backlash of this run.
In regards of MJ, i think something happened to her that changed her, I personally think that Ben and Madeline had something to do with all of this.

Wonder if the MJ we have in the current run isn't actually MJ, but something else and the real one is trapped somewhere in limbo.

[TinkerSpider]

Attachment 124997

Nick may have spoiled the mystery

Like he spoiled Norman coming to Peter's rescue in ASM 8, when the whole point of the story was that Norman wouldn't help him?

IMO, I think Lowe mentions MJ and Mysterio because the letter writer says he's a big fan of MJ as well as being a Mysterio fan, so Lowe is just responding to that.

Although I do think it's interesting Lowe said we'd be hearing more from Mysterio. So far, a Mysterio storyline hasn't been teased (unless Quentin is the Hobgoblin...) Or, y'know, maybe the theories people had about Paul being Mysterio are correct, plus MJ does act like she's been hypnotized. And it might not be a coincidence that Mysterio was supposedly the psychiatrist who implanted the idea that Gwen had children with Norman in MJ's brain, and now here's MJ with two children...

Of course, that would make this a storyline where MJ has her agency taken away yet again and is just a victim, but that also sounds par the course for Wells.

Wonder if the MJ we have in the current run isn't actually MJ, but something else and the real one is trapped somewhere in limbo.

I also wonder if this isn't "our" MJ. Would explain why her personality is so different. But doesn't explain why she was so sad staring out the window at Peter in ASM 1, or why she had tears in her eyes in the last issue when she thought Peter might be hurt.

I'm back to thinking it's some sort of mind control, which would also be in line with Mysterio...but why the kids?

[Mercwmouth12]

Like he spoiled Norman coming to Peter's rescue in ASM 8, when the whole point of the story was that Norman wouldn't help him?

IMO, I think Lowe mentions MJ and Mysterio because the letter writer says he's a big fan of MJ as well as being a Mysterio fan, so Lowe is just responding to that.

Although I do think it's interesting Lowe said we'd be hearing more from Mysterio. So far, a Mysterio storyline hasn't been teased (unless Quentin is the Hobgoblin...) Or, y'know, maybe the theories people had about Paul being Mysterio are correct, plus MJ does act like she's been hypnotized. And it might not be a coincidence that Mysterio was supposedly the psychiatrist who implanted the idea that Gwen had children with Norman in MJ's brain, and now here's MJ with two children...

Of course, that would make this a storyline where MJ has her agency taken away yet again and is just a victim, but that also sounds par the course for Wells.



I also wonder if this isn't "our" MJ. Would explain why her personality is so different. But doesn't explain why she was so sad staring out the window at Peter in ASM 1, or why she had tears in her eyes in the last issue when she thought Peter might be hurt.

I'm back to thinking it's some sort of mind control, which would also be in line with Mysterio...but why the kids?

Possibly LMD's that he's supplanted that they're hers and if the run really is shorten can easily cast them aside as a throw away if they go down that route. What's more troublesome is the tease that something happened to MJ and he had to do something about it. But it could be something like a gotcha moment too where we are to believe one thing and Wells will pull something dumb related to his Hellions stuff

[Lukmendes]

Considering the rumours that Spencer is coming back to Marvel, it would make sense to set the run up as a spiritual sequel to his run

Who's to say he'll come back to ASM though?

Nice that Peter got to see Gwen one more time. Odd that the celestial chose to reward Peter after passing him when it did not reward the others it passed.

The Celestial saw all the **** writing Spidey is going through and decided to give him a break, clearly.

Celestial Gwen's remark about Peter being blinded by his heart seems to throw shade at Peter's choice to work for Osborn.

To be fair, that's accurate for Spidey in general too, kinda, he is a very emotional character.

It seems like they're just going to tie the whole mystery box to some Mysterio crap. Whether or not that was the original plan is impossible to say unless someone talks.

Making Mysterio be the cause of a Mystery Box™ is kinda genius to be fair .

It probably wasn't. But based on getting a tease from the editor in the letter page it's seems like the easy way out now to resolve it.
We know nothing permanent happened to any of the characters so this would allow and easy way to explain the kids away, but biggest question is are they gonna let Pete and MJ get back together when this run ends

Well, only if the next writer wants to get rid of 'em, Wells just said that nothing is really permanent with comics and the next writer can undo stuff, which, is true, but it doesn't mean they will be undone.

Only reason I expect the kids to disappear is simply because Spidey's civilian life is empty, and kids aren't the classic characters, so they're unlikely to remain around.

I imagine they'll leave things up in the air for the next writer to do what they want. Although we should acknowledge that the next writer has seen the reception to the Wells run.

Well, even if he or she did, it could still end up being a shithole lol.

I mean In Slott's own run at the end of it, there's a random moment where Bobbi says "Brand New Day" and Spidey reacts to that with "Don't say that", which's really ironic since Slott kept some of BND's problems... So yeah.

Editorial clearly favored a status quo that lets creative teams decide what they want to do about Peter and MJ. Although I have wondered if they plan on stepping in and putting their foot down in the future given the reception to this run.

Editorial learning would be new lol.

Now that I think of it, editorial at times looks like a poorly written character with how much they keep making the same damn mistakes and not learning from 'em.

[Kevinroc]

Making Mysterio be the cause of a Mystery Box™ is kinda genius to be fair .

It was when they did it when retconning Sins Past. Kinda feels too soon to do another "Mysterio box." But I woulda said the same thing about breaking up Peter x MJ again, so what do I know?

Well, even if he or she did, it could still end up being a shithole lol.

I mean In Slott's own run at the end of it, there's a random moment where Bobbi says "Brand New Day" and Spidey reacts to that with "Don't say that", which's really ironic since Slott kept some of BND's problems... So yeah.

Just feels like a joke there.

Editorial learning would be new lol.

Now that I think of it, editorial at times looks like a poorly written character with how much they keep making the same damn mistakes and not learning from 'em.

I'm definitely curious what is going on behind the scenes. Seems like things have gotten out of Editorial's hands since late in Spencer's run.

[Lukmendes]

It was when they did it when retconning Sins Past. Kinda feels too soon to do another "Mysterio box."

To be fair, that one isn't really a Mysterio box, since we didn't even know there was a mystery around Gwen's and Norman's kids lol.

Though having him do his Magic Therapy™ again would be an odd decision, but it's not something to be dismissed, if we're lucky, this whole run and Beyond will turn out to have been Mysterio putting the readers under Magic Therapy™ .

But I woulda said the same thing about breaking up Peter x MJ again, so what do I know?

In general I avoid talking in absolutes, but comic books? Yeah, just because something was tried before and it didn't work, doesn't mean they won't try it again.

Reminder Mephisto was legit considered to be used in Clone Saga, but it was considered too stupid, now, well, we got OMD lol.

Just feels like a joke there.

It is, but it sounds like a joke mocking BND, and if that's the case it's kinda ironic to mock it.

I'm definitely curious what is going on behind the scenes. Seems like things have gotten out of Editorial's hands since late in Spencer's run.

How is it out of their hands? Is it because Cebulski said that they have to make Spidey be relatable and that's why he's a loser? 'Cause if so, that just sounds like the usual excuses editorial comes up with.

[Kevinroc]

To be fair, that one isn't really a Mysterio box, since we didn't even know there was a mystery around Gwen's and Norman's kids lol.

Though having him do his Magic Therapy™ again would be an odd decision, but it's not something to be dismissed, if we're lucky, this whole run and Beyond will turn out to have been Mysterio putting the readers under Magic Therapy™ .

I doubt they'll go that far, but I won't complain, lol.

In general I avoid talking in absolutes, but comic books? Yeah, just because something was tried before and it didn't work, doesn't mean they won't try it again.

Reminder Mephisto was legit considered to be used in Clone Saga, but it was considered too stupid, now, well, we got OMD lol.

I meant to say "break them up so soon" after Spencer's run where they got back together after being broken up for so long. Slott really broke things by staying on the title for 10 years and not getting them back together during his time on the book (RYV notwithstanding, obviously).

How is it out of their hands? Is it because Cebulski said that they have to make Spidey be relatable and that's why he's a loser? 'Cause if so, that just sounds like the usual excuses editorial comes up with.

People complaining on the internet is nothing new, but it really feels like people aren't really defending this run or anything. Obviously exceptions exist, but it doesn't feel like Editorial is in control in any way of the narrative among fans.

Marvel Editorial and Creators were out there for OMD/BND and any controversial stories from Slott's run. It just doesn't feel like that's the case anymore. At best it feels like this run is just kinda there.

(Maybe I'm doing a bad job explaining what I mean.)

[Lukmendes]

I doubt they'll go that far, but I won't complain, lol.

I would be baffled if that was something they tried, 'cause, actually saying the reader was hypnotized? Yeah...

Like I'm usually the one who sees whatever dumb ideas and says "maybe Marvel will do this, or imply it, for clickbait", but, this would be weird and unlikely lol.

I meant to say "break them up so soon" after Spencer's run where they got back together after being broken up for so long. Slott really broke things by staying on the title for 10 years and not getting them back together during his time on the book (RYV notwithstanding, obviously).

Well, comic books are like that...

Like, before this, we had New 52 at DC, where people whined about the stories getting too dark, then, we got DC Rebirth, where stuff wasn't as dark anymore, and then only two years after Rebirth, we got dark stories again.

So soon after making a mistake, they made the same mistake, sound familiar?

Unfortunately comic books have these cycle where people try to force their ideas, then they pretend that other ideas are being considered for a while, but then they go back.

People complaining on the internet is nothing new, but it really feels like people aren't really defending this run or anything. Obviously exceptions exist, but it doesn't feel like Editorial is in control in any way of the narrative among fans.

Marvel Editorial and Creators were out there for OMD/BND and any controversial stories from Slott's run. It just doesn't feel like that's the case anymore. At best it feels like this run is just kinda there.

(Maybe I'm doing a bad job explaining what I mean.)

Are you trying to say editorial was controlling the fanbase's narrative before, and now they aren't? Is that it?

If so, while I can see that people may swallow the bullshit they say, I think a reason for that to happen is that they like the current direction.

I don't really care about Slott's run, it has interesting ideas but their execution hardly works well for me, but the fact these ideas happened to begin with made people interested, and other people may not notice or care about Slott's writing issues.

Meanwhile, assuming this run is still as boring as ASM#1 vol 6, uh, what is it offering by comparison? It's just a mediocre angst porn without the dumb cool ideas from Slott's run, a forgettable story and an annoying Mystery box, which coming out right after Spencer's run which ended in a more positive note, makes it look like editorial is just showing the middle finger to Spidey and the fanbase.

So yeah, that's why I think the run is just kinda there, it's not doing anything cool, and if you're not doing at least that, it's harder for fans to want to defend this.

If this isn't what you meant then I may have done some overthinking lol.

[Kevinroc]

I would be baffled if that was something they tried, 'cause, actually saying the reader was hypnotized? Yeah...

Like I'm usually the one who sees whatever dumb ideas and says "maybe Marvel will do this, or imply it, for clickbait", but, this would be weird and unlikely lol.

Marvel's actually retconned entire runs before, lol. The Bruce Jones Hulk run was basically retconned out of continuity.

Well, comic books are like that...

Like, before this, we had New 52 at DC, where people whined about the stories getting too dark, then, we got DC Rebirth, where stuff wasn't as dark anymore, and then only two years after Rebirth, we got dark stories again.

So soon after making a mistake, they made the same mistake, sound familiar?

Unfortunately comic books have these cycle where people try to force their ideas, then they pretend that other ideas are being considered for a while, but then they go back.

I think Slott staying on as long as he did really broke some people on this, lol.

Are you trying to say editorial was controlling the fanbase's narrative before, and now they aren't? Is that it?

If so, while I can see that people may swallow the bullshit they say, I think a reason for that to happen is that they like the current direction.

I don't really care about Slott's run, it has interesting ideas but their execution hardly works well for me, but the fact these ideas happened to begin with made people interested, and other people may not notice or care about Slott's writing issues.

Meanwhile, assuming this run is still as boring as ASM#1 vol 6, uh, what is it offering by comparison? It's just a mediocre angst porn without the dumb cool ideas from Slott's run, a forgettable story and an annoying Mystery box, which coming out right after Spencer's run which ended in a more positive note, makes it look like editorial is just showing the middle finger to Spidey and the fanbase.

So yeah, that's why I think the run is just kinda there, it's not doing anything cool, and if you're not doing at least that, it's harder for fans to want to defend this.

If this isn't what you meant then I may have done some overthinking lol.

It doesn't feel like there's a lot of hype for the title right now. I guess when it's the middest of runs, it's hard to generate excitement.

[Lukmendes]

Marvel's actually retconned entire runs before, lol. The Bruce Jones Hulk run was basically retconned out of continuity.

I think everything between when Peter David left, and then returned, was retconned away lol.

But what I meant was the specific "Hey, Mysterio did Magic Therapy™ on the reader" nonsense, that is breaking the fourth wall in a rather odd way.

I think Slott staying on as long as he did really broke some people on this, lol.

It probably did lol.

Hell I think his, awkward, characterizations helped in making Superior more popular, characters looking dumber won't be much of a problem if recent stories had 'em not standing out, his Otto being a more interesting protagonist than his Peter doesn't help too...

It doesn't feel like there's a lot of hype for the title right now. I guess when it's the middest of runs, it's hard to generate excitement.

I mean, something hype has to be happening for people to be hyped about it lol.

Yes I know how fucking obvious that sentence is, but my point still stands, a boring ass run won't get people hyped, specially if nothing happens early on to catch their attention, first impressions are important, and a writer looking boring early in the run will have less people making excuses for 'em.

[Matt Rat]

I think everything between when Peter David left, and then returned, was retconned away lol..

The weird thing is, a lot of the Bruce Jones run was the inspiration for the 2008 Incredible Hulk movie.

[Lukmendes]

The weird thing is, a lot of the Bruce Jones run was the inspiration for the 2008 Incredible Hulk movie.

I don't think the Bruce Jones run was disliked by the readers, I only really heard that people started to find it meh on the final issues, it seemed like Peter David just not liking what other writers did to Hulk when he wasn't around.

So yeah, just one particular writer not liking a specific direction ain't enough to stop movies from doing whatever (Even if he is someone who did so much to define the Hulk), specially considering movies are their own thing as adaptations and may have the director and/or writers reference different stuff, or just do an adaptation that isn't like the comics, and that can be a good or a bad thing depending on the execution.

[Frontier]

There's an NPC in this game about weed that looks like the spitting image of MJ from the 90's Spider-Man cartoon (at 0:47):

[Matt Rat]

MJ's appearance in ASM#9 pleased one marriage fan in this panel of critics, who brought up his enjoyment of MC2 MJ

Far and away that was my favorite part of the issue, too. MJ is probably the best romantic partner in comics (except maybe Lois Lane), and I got into comics as the Spider-Marriage was at its strongest as well. Also, my favorite Spider-spin-off is Spider-Girl, so you look at THAT MJ combined with mid to late 90’s MJ up through “One More Day”, and that’s the basis for my head canon for the character.

That’s a long way of saying this is my MJ and seeing her not JUST standing up to a supervillain, but also frankly beating her, made me cheer internally. I want to see whatever is going on with her to get a resolution so we can work towards the happier-ever-after that was hinted at in “Spider-Man Beyond“.

https://www.comicsxf.com/2022/09/29/...x-men-roundup/