Hal Jordan: The Green Lantern Appreciation 2022

[Refrax5]

To be fair its always been a bit of a contradiction in Hal. He was said from day one to be a 'patrol-man' and well... is a test pilot which is something you tend to become by... being in the military. But also carried with it terms of a rebellious streak. At least in pop culture. O'Neil leaned HEAVY into the policeman element crafting a Hal who was purely by the book type, he believes in the following authority (often to... insane degrees in the famed 12 issues,) and working in the system. We then get a Hal defined more by that rebellious streak image and the whole 'fearless' element. But again the two have always co-existed in a fascinating but uneasy balance and each writer will end up balancing and trying to deal with the contradictions differently.

Well, he was in the military because he wanted to fly. He left the military and didn't go back until Johns wanted to do his whole rah rah America stuff and make Hal a hardcore military personality and Coast City suddenly a military town. It doesn't bother me that Hal was in the military. It's more that he went back and was depicted as such a sterotypical bro douche. Cooke's Hal was in the military during war time and still refused to kill. Johns Hal was bombing terrorist camps, quoting John McCain, complaining about the US military being criticized for how they treat their prisoners (yikes), and later blowing a guy's head off with a quip. Pretty long way from the classic version of Hal that had a profound respect for life.

[Frontier]

It was stupid having Hal resign over something so ... stupid.

I'm kind of curious how different Johns' New 52 JL run would've been had Hal stuck around longer, especially when the writing improved.

Well, he was in the military because he wanted to fly. He left the military and didn't go back until Johns wanted to do his whole rah rah America stuff and make Hal a hardcore military personality and Coast City suddenly a military town. It doesn't bother me that Hal was in the military. It's more that he went back and was depicted as such a sterotypical bro douche. Cooke's Hal was in the military during war time and still refused to kill. Johns Hal was bombing terrorist camps, quoting John McCain, complaining about the US military being criticized for how they treat their prisoners (yikes), and later blowing a guy's head off with a quip. Pretty long way from the classic version of Hal that had a profound respect for life.

(I still maintain that was a sizeable small portion of the actual run).

[j9ac9k]

Well, he was in the military because he wanted to fly. He left the military and didn't go back until Johns wanted to do his whole rah rah America stuff and make Hal a hardcore military personality and Coast City suddenly a military town. It doesn't bother me that Hal was in the military. It's more that he went back and was depicted as such a sterotypical bro douche. Cooke's Hal was in the military during war time and still refused to kill. Johns Hal was bombing terrorist camps, quoting John McCain, complaining about the US military being criticized for how they treat their prisoners (yikes), and later blowing a guy's head off with a quip. Pretty long way from the classic version of Hal that had a profound respect for life.

Interesting - I didn't get that from those issues. Hal was still the guy who punched his commanding officer. And I think Johns felt a desire to honor the people he met when he talked to Air Force people during his research. There are plenty of good people in the military who love their country and I get if that rubbed you the wrong way, but I didn't get "douchey jock" vibe from Hal until Johns's Nu52 JLA. (although blowing off a guy's head while quipping struck me as OOC as well)

[Refrax5]

Interesting - I didn't get that from those issues. Hal was still the guy who punched his commanding officer. And I think Johns felt a desire to honor the people he met when he talked to Air Force people during his research. There are plenty of good people in the military who love their country and I get if that rubbed you the wrong way, but I didn't get "douchey jock" vibe from Hal until Johns's Nu52 JLA. (although blowing off a guy's head while quipping struck me as OOC as well)

Hal came across as very much an authority figure that didn't rebel in any meaningful or moral sense, just a self-centered macho way. His rebellious behavior came off as even more obnoxious because he was written as such a cop in the first place.

Also, him punching his commanding officer was a Geoff-con. His original discharge was for more moral, but less Michael Bay-ish protagonist reasons.

The constant references to how many women Hal bangs, the jokes about Tasmanian Devil having a crush on Hal, how much Hal and other characters keep telling you how Hal has a huge ego, etc. There's a lot of it.

I don't hate everybody in the military. But I do hate a lot of the dickhead culture and jingoism that Johns loves to glorify. He also took John Stewart from an anti-authority intellectual to a sniper who's entire personality was a gigantic "ooh rah" stereotype. The Corps went from this otherworldly legion of noble protectors to acting and functioning exactly like earth cops and military. It took something cosmic and ideal and made it almost ridiculously mundane. I liked some of Johns' stuff, but it's all very Jerry Bruckheimer. James Cameron if I'm being generous.

[silly]

It was stupid having Hal resign over something so ... stupid.

What was the reason for Hal leaving?

[j9ac9k]

Hal on the cover of "Superman: Space Age" #2:

[Frontier]

What was the reason for Hal leaving?

He punched his commanding officer so he could get discharged and see his mom in the hospital.

[Anthony Shaw]

Hal on the cover of "Superman: Space Age" #2:

Is Bruce running on the train?!

What's going on with his ears?!

[j9ac9k]

He punched his commanding officer so he could get discharged and see his mom in the hospital.

I think Silly was asking about my comment about Hal resigning from the JLA:
why-green-lantern-quit-the-justice-league-3.jpg
Hal took one for the team so they could save face because Wonder Woman lost it in public and started fighting her teammates.

[Frontier]

Hal came across as very much an authority figure that didn't rebel in any meaningful or moral sense, just a self-centered macho way. His rebellious behavior came off as even more obnoxious because he was written as such a cop in the first place.

Also, him punching his commanding officer was a Geoff-con. His original discharge was for more moral, but less Michael Bay-ish protagonist reasons.

The constant references to how many women Hal bangs, the jokes about Tasmanian Devil having a crush on Hal, how much Hal and other characters keep telling you how Hal has a huge ego, etc. There's a lot of it.

I don't hate everybody in the military. But I do hate a lot of the dickhead culture and jingoism that Johns loves to glorify. He also took John Stewart from an anti-authority intellectual to a sniper who's entire personality was a gigantic "ooh rah" stereotype. The Corps went from this otherworldly legion of noble protectors to acting and functioning exactly like earth cops and military. It took something cosmic and ideal and made it almost ridiculously mundane. I liked some of Johns' stuff, but it's all very Jerry Bruckheimer. James Cameron if I'm being generous.

I'm always surprised when two people can come at a run with such different impressions of the content.

[silly]

I think Silly was asking about my comment about Hal resigning from the JLA:
why-green-lantern-quit-the-justice-league-3.jpg
Hal took one for the team so they could save face because Wonder Woman lost it in public and started fighting her teammates.

Yeah. Now I remember. Can't believe Geoff wrote this. I did not like New 52 JLA that much.

[Refrax5]

I'm always surprised when two people can come at a run with such different impressions of the content.

I remember at the time it was coming out, a lot of people made fun of how hard Johns tried to sell Hal as this rebellious badass and how the whole thing felt like a military recruitment ad. How people don't see the heavy military and cop propaganda and all the right wing undertones to his work is beyond me. Outside of Denny O'Neil, Johns is the only one to make Hal such an obnoxious right wing cop caricature.

It might also be because I studied literature and sociology in college. Patterns like this in an authors work jump out at me.

By the way, I used to be a huge defender of Johns. Even had my GL #1 signed by him back in the day.

[j9ac9k]

I remember at the time it was coming out, a lot of people made fun of how hard Johns tried to sell Hal as this rebellious badass and how the whole thing felt like a military recruitment ad. How people don't see the heavy military and cop propaganda and all the right wing undertones to his work is beyond me. Outside of Denny O'Neil, Johns is the only one to make Hal such an obnoxious right wing cop caricature.

It might also be because I studied literature and sociology in college. Patterns like this in an authors work jump out at me.

By the way, I used to be a huge defender of Johns. Even had my GL #1 signed by him back in the day.

We all view the world through our own subjective lenses. I'm sure your studies make you keenly aware of the military/cop angle and the negative connotations you brought to it. I prefer to respect the actual men and women who serve honorably and still respect their duty and willingness to serve, even if in the real world, the institutions are corrupt - it's a problematic issue that's become more problematic since these issues came out. A lot of people think the whole idea of superheroes are a right-wing fascist fantasy, but I won't get into that. We can see the same piece of art and bring to it what we want - you see a right wing caricature, I can see that the projection of anything that appears right wing as being evil overlooks the well-meaning human beings who proudly serve their country and communities. I refuse to reject something just because the right wing embraces it. (I hate that they have co-opted the US flag and that progressive people have let them. I think progressives embody the spirit and ideals of that flag more than backwards-thinking conservatives, but that's just me) Anyway, enough political ranting, but I do think there's room in Johns's work to see it in its best light and that it need not be what you describe. For example, Hal sleeping around - you may associate that type of behavior with a certain type of toxic male, but Hal's sex-positive (if you want to use a friendlier term) and there's nothing wrong with a single person indulging in a healthy sex life. It was bit cringey that he didn't remember the woman's name, but iirc, she didn't remember his either so it was mutual - just two consenting adults having some frivolity.

[Johnny]

[Johnny]

Yeah. Now I remember. Can't believe Geoff wrote this. I did not like New 52 JLA that much.

Ironically enough, I thought that was one of Hal's better moments in the New 52 JL. He took the blame even though he didn't need to because he knew he could carry the burden, which is very much what Hal would do.