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  1. #31
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Silver Surfer Rebirth #2 out today!

    *Warning* Spoilers Ahead *Warning*



    Aside from the big bad purple, a surprise guest star appears along with a former ally of the Surfer.
    Last edited by Cronus; 02-26-2022 at 12:48 AM.
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    "One of the maddening but beautiful things about comics is that you have to give characters a sense of change without changing them so much that they violate the essence of who they are." ~ Ann Nocenti, Chris Claremont's X-Men.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member legion_quest's Avatar
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    So, after issue 2 I am going to guess the villain of the piece is

    spoilers:
    Tyrant, the big bad Marz created for the Cosmic Powers mini back in the day
    end of spoilers
    I will raise my throne above the Stars of God

  3. #33
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    Agree with antagonist guess, and that makes me happy. He was far to powerful and interesting to be as quickly removed from the stage as he was.

    *Edit* do NOT look up #5s cover if you don't want to know for sure who the antagonist is.

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member Chainsaw Vigilante's Avatar
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    Yeah Tyrant feels pretty obvious, especially with the mechanized tendrils in the Jack of Hearts scenes. I was never big on Marz' Surfer in retrospect, but they were fun comics and it's nice to see Marz and Lim together again on a Surfer comic.

    I'm enjoying the Surfer's depiction in the new FF event, but then again Dan Slot has done a good job with the character since his version of the Surfer's solo series.

    I feel like they "jobbed" (in old pro-wrestling lingo) the Surfer and Doom out in the newest Iron Man though. Two characters who have routinely fought and even bested gods on a higher order than a Korvac equivalent (I mean old "pew pew" Steve Engleheart written Surfer even fought Korvac pretty evenly, so there's some history there) lost way too easily. How many times has Doom drained a god (including ones powered by Galactus' power cosmic)? Tony also commented that he's basically using what Surfer has better than the Surfer ever did; I mean sure most depictions of the character portray him as far more limited than he should be as it'd make for a more boring godlike character in many respects, but it doesn't sit well with me considering the Surfer was (along with his father) the best scientist on Zenn-La (which was quite advanced) and he was tens of thousands of years old before the events of Slott and the Allred's Surfer series and Silver Surfer: Black, which made him billions of years older than the universe itself. You'd figure a character with that much experience and cosmic senses would be more familiar with the power cosmic than someone that just received it, especially if they are both genius scientists. Seems like a bit of a cop-out to make Tonyvac seem like more of a threat and they were doing fine without using Doom and The Surfer for clout (I have enjoyed the series sans this bit). It also cheapens the Knull and current Fantastic Four arcs.

    I hope this isn't too off topic but on a cosmically related note I feel like Marvel has been doing this a lot to big villains and cosmic entities lately and it really cheapens not only the characters and events but retroactively makes other appearances look worse in many readers' eyes. The Celestials have been tomato cans for over a decade and its' continuing, Galactus pretty easily "killed" by herald Thor (so to was The Black Winter; though it seems like the new FF event is bringing Galactus back), Dormammu (possessing Ego no less) presented as the big baddie of the new Annihilation event only to go out pretty easily, The Adversary recently got this treatment in the new Phoenix mini (which cheapens the soul sacrifices of the X-Men from the original Fall of the Mutants event), the Midgard Serpent jobbed out in Thor pretty much off panel (and it looks like a merged Mangog-Mjolnir-God of Storms is getting this treatment soon with Thor getting the last bit of Odinpower he didn't have, even though Thor and Odin together plus reinforcements were already losing the fight). The Sentry had this treatment in the Knull event (to pull a Sentry vs. Carnage on Sentry himself for shock value) only months after The Void and Sentry merged into a complete entity, but at least they tried to qualify it with The Void leaving Sentry just beforehand. Surtur had this same jobbing out happen to him recently as well in the Beta Ray Bill mini. Multiple Mephistos temporarily killed by Moon Knight with extra power in Aaron's Avengers. Shuma Gorath temporarily killed by Kulan Gath of all characters in Savage Avengers. Chthon getting this treatment in the recent Darkhold event. This is all in the span of a couple of years too, I'm likely forgetting some examples as well. Even the Eternals were downgraded due to the MCU synergy, they used to be able to reform from atomic disintegration on their own (like when Blastaar did that to a group of them in a classic Avengers story), now they can due from blunt force trauma and need "the machine" to resurrect.
    Here's to hoping the new Reckoning War being a solid cosmic Marvel event. I enjoyed the Knull event much more than I expected so it'd be nice to see a good cosmic event after the poor Annihilation and Cotati events.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member legion_quest's Avatar
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    It happens all the time, job out the guest character to make the book's star look better and help them stay over.

    Brubacker did it to Richard Rider too, just as Rider was getting big post Annihilation and joined the first team of Secret Avengers, Bru had him knocked out quickly, then had Cap put on the helmet and immediately be a better Nova Prime than we'd spent months and a massive event seeing Rider become.

    All it does is hamstring a character who could be something in order to keep your already drawing characters on top. Very WWE like.
    I will raise my throne above the Stars of God

  6. #36
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    I've always been a little perplexed by die hard fans of Marz's run. Surfer's fights were nothing more than "lightning bolt, lightning bolt - fly really fast" when the Surfer was capable of many different methods of fighting - some in physics and some metaphysical. It was great 90's action porn though to be sure, and I am, if no other reason than nostalgia, enjoying Rebirth.

    On Slott, he really brought the character back to his roots. Alien, but human influenced, doing crazy things with the power cosmic, and making the Board somewhat of its own entity will forever change the "sentinel" (solitary) portion of the "Sentinel of the Spaceways".

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkshadow View Post
    I've always been a little perplexed by die hard fans of Marz's run. Surfer's fights were nothing more than "lightning bolt, lightning bolt - fly really fast" when the Surfer was capable of many different methods of fighting - some in physics and some metaphysical. It was great 90's action porn though to be sure, and I am, if no other reason than nostalgia, enjoying Rebirth.

    On Slott, he really brought the character back to his roots. Alien, but human influenced, doing crazy things with the power cosmic, and making the Board somewhat of its own entity will forever change the "sentinel" (solitary) portion of the "Sentinel of the Spaceways".
    Slott was trying very hard for whimsy and it was cringe inducing. From the Dawn Greenwood character, who looks and acts like a Dr Who companion after suffering head trauma to making the board act like the flying carpet from Disney's Alladin and dialogue like this....

    Silver Surfer:: Well Dawn Greenwood are you ready to go?

    Dawn Greenwood: Sure. I guess it's just you, me, and Toomie

    Silver Surfer:: Toomie? Is that one of the other escapees? Did they leave him behind?

    Dawn Greenwood:: No I was talking about your board.

    Silver Surfer:: You named my board "Toomie"?

    Dawn Greenwood:: No, you did. You said "Toomie, my board"

    Silver Surfer:: "...."

    Dawn Greenwood:: "..."

    Silver Surfer:: HA! HA! HA!

    Dawn Greenwood:: What?

    Silver Surfer:: Come on Earthgirl. Let's get you home.

    At that moment I could almost feel almost all of the Silver Surfer fans rolling their eyes and sighing at once. Everyone seems to be quick to memory hole that run. I can't say I blame them.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  8. #38
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    So, after issue 2 I am going to guess the villain of the piece is

    spoilers:
    Tyrant, the big bad Marz created for the Cosmic Powers mini back in the day
    end of spoilers
    to which Darkshadow said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkshadow View Post
    Agree with antagonist guess, and that makes me happy. He was far to powerful and interesting to be as quickly removed from the stage as he was.

    *Edit* do NOT look up #5s cover if you don't want to know for sure who the antagonist is.
    And then,

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Vigilante View Post
    Yeah Tyrant feels pretty obvious, especially with the mechanized tendrils in the Jack of Hearts scenes. I was never big on Marz' Surfer in retrospect, but they were fun comics and it's nice to see Marz and Lim together again on a Surfer comic.

    I'm enjoying the Surfer's depiction in the new FF event, but then again Dan Slot has done a good job with the character since his version of the Surfer's solo series.
    I actually have not read it. Worth checking out?

    I feel like they "jobbed" (in old pro-wrestling lingo) the Surfer and Doom out in the newest Iron Man though. Two characters who have routinely fought and even bested gods on a higher order than a Korvac equivalent (I mean old "pew pew" Steve Engleheart written Surfer even fought Korvac pretty evenly, so there's some history there) lost way too easily. How many times has Doom drained a god (including ones powered by Galactus' power cosmic)? Tony also commented that he's basically using what Surfer has better than the Surfer ever did; I mean sure most depictions of the character portray him as far more limited than he should be as it'd make for a more boring godlike character in many respects, but it doesn't sit well with me considering the Surfer was (along with his father) the best scientist on Zenn-La (which was quite advanced) and he was tens of thousands of years old before the events of Slott and the Allred's Surfer series and Silver Surfer: Black, which made him billions of years older than the universe itself. You'd figure a character with that much experience and cosmic senses would be more familiar with the power cosmic than someone that just received it, especially if they are both genius scientists. Seems like a bit of a cop-out to make Tonyvac seem like more of a threat and they were doing fine without using Doom and The Surfer for clout (I have enjoyed the series sans this bit). It also cheapens the Knull and current Fantastic Four arcs.

    I hope this isn't too off topic but on a cosmically related note I feel like Marvel has been doing this a lot to big villains and cosmic entities lately and it really cheapens not only the characters and events but retroactively makes other appearances look worse in many readers' eyes. The Celestials have been tomato cans for over a decade and its' continuing, Galactus pretty easily "killed" by herald Thor (so to was The Black Winter; though it seems like the new FF event is bringing Galactus back), Dormammu (possessing Ego no less) presented as the big baddie of the new Annihilation event only to go out pretty easily, The Adversary recently got this treatment in the new Phoenix mini (which cheapens the soul sacrifices of the X-Men from the original Fall of the Mutants event), the Midgard Serpent jobbed out in Thor pretty much off panel (and it looks like a merged Mangog-Mjolnir-God of Storms is getting this treatment soon with Thor getting the last bit of Odinpower he didn't have, even though Thor and Odin together plus reinforcements were already losing the fight). The Sentry had this treatment in the Knull event (to pull a Sentry vs. Carnage on Sentry himself for shock value) only months after The Void and Sentry merged into a complete entity, but at least they tried to qualify it with The Void leaving Sentry just beforehand. Surtur had this same jobbing out happen to him recently as well in the Beta Ray Bill mini. Multiple Mephistos temporarily killed by Moon Knight with extra power in Aaron's Avengers. Shuma Gorath temporarily killed by Kulan Gath of all characters in Savage Avengers. Chthon getting this treatment in the recent Darkhold event. This is all in the span of a couple of years too, I'm likely forgetting some examples as well. Even the Eternals were downgraded due to the MCU synergy, they used to be able to reform from atomic disintegration on their own (like when Blastaar did that to a group of them in a classic Avengers story), now they can due from blunt force trauma and need "the machine" to resurrect.
    Here's to hoping the new Reckoning War being a solid cosmic Marvel event. I enjoyed the Knull event much more than I expected so it'd be nice to see a good cosmic event after the poor Annihilation and Cotati events.
    I wonder if Marz feels a bit like you? I can't help but believe that maybe that's the reason he's resurrected Tyrant. He was fun to read in the Herald Ordeal, and I agree... far too powerful to just disappear after only a handful of issues.
    "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margret's not coming?"
    ----------------------
    "One of the maddening but beautiful things about comics is that you have to give characters a sense of change without changing them so much that they violate the essence of who they are." ~ Ann Nocenti, Chris Claremont's X-Men.

  9. #39
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Slott was trying very hard for whimsy and it was cringe inducing. From the Dawn Greenwood character, who looks and acts like a Dr Who companion after suffering head trauma to making the board act like the flying carpet from Disney's Alladin and dialogue like this....

    Silver Surfer:: Well Dawn Greenwood are you ready to go?

    Dawn Greenwood: Sure. I guess it's just you, me, and Toomie

    Silver Surfer:: Toomie? Is that one of the other escapees? Did they leave him behind?

    Dawn Greenwood:: No I was talking about your board.

    Silver Surfer:: You named my board "Toomie"?

    Dawn Greenwood:: No, you did. You said "Toomie, my board"

    Silver Surfer:: "...."

    Dawn Greenwood:: "..."

    Silver Surfer:: HA! HA! HA!

    Dawn Greenwood:: What?

    Silver Surfer:: Come on Earthgirl. Let's get you home.

    At that moment I could almost feel almost all of the Silver Surfer fans rolling their eyes and sighing at once. Everyone seems to be quick to memory hole that run. I can't say I blame them.
    I like Slott, but I feel the same way you do. He is noted for some farcical stuff (GLA: Misassembled anyone?). The Surfer is just more compelling when he is serious.
    "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margret's not coming?"
    ----------------------
    "One of the maddening but beautiful things about comics is that you have to give characters a sense of change without changing them so much that they violate the essence of who they are." ~ Ann Nocenti, Chris Claremont's X-Men.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    I like Slott, but I feel the same way you do. He is noted for some farcical stuff (GLA: Misassembled anyone?). The Surfer is just more compelling when he is serious.
    What I find really interesting is now that the mini is out people are acting like everyone always knew about the Marz/Lin run. I remember back when I said I wasn't a fan of the Slott run a common retort was "Oh, you just want the mopey Stan Lee Silver Surfer"

    Then I would have to explain the Marz/Lin run.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  11. #41
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    to which Darkshadow said:



    And then,



    I actually have not read it. Worth checking out?



    I wonder if Marz feels a bit like you? I can't help but believe that maybe that's the reason he's resurrected Tyrant. He was fun to read in the Herald Ordeal, and I agree... far too powerful to just disappear after only a handful of issues.
    In agreement with you about Tyrant, except for one thing.
    Tyrant made his 1st appearance in Silver Surfer #81, which was well after the conclusion of The Herald Ordeal

    Last edited by K7P5V; 02-26-2022 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    In agreement with you about Tyrant, except for one thing.
    Tyrant made his 1st appearance in Silver Surfer #81, which was well after the conclusion of The Herald Ordeal

    Oy vey!

    I stand corrected. Thank you my friend!
    "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margret's not coming?"
    ----------------------
    "One of the maddening but beautiful things about comics is that you have to give characters a sense of change without changing them so much that they violate the essence of who they are." ~ Ann Nocenti, Chris Claremont's X-Men.

  13. #43
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    What I find really interesting is now that the mini is out people are acting like everyone always knew about the Marz/Lin run. I remember back when I said I wasn't a fan of the Slott run a common retort was "Oh, you just want the mopey Stan Lee Silver Surfer"

    Then I would have to explain the Marz/Lin run.
    Right? Not to take away from Stan Lee's contribution, he did the first 18(?) issues of Surfer. Team Marz/Lim did more stories featuring the Surfer than Stan did himself. Kinda cool to trace the Surfer's character evolution though, now that you mention it.

    Stan said the Surfer was his soap box to address issues he felt were global in impact. There was a real Shakespearean/philosophical vibe going on in the early days. Englehart I don't think had him for but 30 or so issues(?), but I don't recall much that could be a departure from Stan's take on the character. Starlin had him for like a year or so and that's when I seem to recall a more confident and less pacifistic Silver Surfer. Starlin's Surfer seemed to be the version of Surfer that Marz was writing moreso than any other version. And Marz had the character for some 50 issues or so.

    Like you, I wasn't super sold on Slott's version of Surfer. Too much goof ball stuff for my taste. I also was not a tremendous fan of Allred's art. For me, Marz/Lim is my favorite Surfer team.
    Last edited by Cronus; 02-26-2022 at 06:51 PM.
    "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margret's not coming?"
    ----------------------
    "One of the maddening but beautiful things about comics is that you have to give characters a sense of change without changing them so much that they violate the essence of who they are." ~ Ann Nocenti, Chris Claremont's X-Men.

  14. #44
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    Oy vey!

    I stand corrected. Thank you my friend!
    You're welcome, Cronus!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    Right? Not to take away from Stan Lee's contribution, he did the first 18(?) issues of Surfer. Team Marz/Lim did more stories featuring the Surfer than Stan did himself. Kinda cool to trace the Surfer's character evolution though, now that you mention it.

    Stan said the Surfer was his soap box to address issues he felt were global in impact. There was a real Shakespearean/philosophical vibe going on in the early days. Englehart I don't think had him for but 30 or so issues(?), but I don't recall much that could be a departure from Stan's take on the character. Starlin had him for like a year or so and that's when I seem to recall a more confident and less pacifistic Silver Surfer. Starlin's Surfer seemed to be the version of Surfer that Marz was writing moreso than any other version. And Marz had the character for some 50 issues or so.

    Like you, I wasn't super sold on Slott's version of Surfer. Too much goof ball stuff for my taste. I also was not a tremendous fan of Allred's art. For me, Marz/Lim is my favorite Surfer team.
    LOL! I remember Starlin had The Silver Surfer use his board as a weapon against "Stone-Thanos" (XD)

    Last edited by K7P5V; 02-27-2022 at 06:50 AM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

  15. #45

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    is Norrin completely free from Galactus again? He can do what he wants? What happened with that fight with Knull?

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