Susan Storm-Richards: The Invisible Woman Appreciation 2022

[Dipter]

I'm sorry to wander a bit in this thread, and these can be moved, but the bolded is completely wrong. Aquaman has basically stolen from Namor repeatedly over the decades, right up to the movie, where just about everyone pointed out that Jason Momoa made a better Namor, amongst other things.

I'm sorry but I don't see how this relates to what I said? I know Aquaman stole from Namor, I'm not denying that at all. We seem to be on the same page as my point was pretty much the same thing you said here:

And there have always been fans of Namor. Aquaman has been more popular, because DC gave him the push to make and keep him an A-list character, whereas Marvel has treated Namor like crap.

Aquaman had his own cartoon in the 60's, was in the main cast of Super Friends, and is a mainstay in the iconic Justice League roster. All these things made him a household name in pop culture, while Namor remained a niche character known mostly amongst comic fans. This was the case decades before Aquaman got his own movie.

[Reviresco]

It's more than just the movie. For almost his entire history Aquaman has been the more popular and relevant character between the two. He's one of the more commonly recognized superheroes in pop culture, whereas the average person has no idea Namor exists.

I'm sorry but I don't see how this relates to what I said? I know Aquaman stole from Namor, I'm not denying that at all.

It relates directly to what you claimed, which is Aquaman is more relevant than Namor, which clearly isn't true, if he's been following Namor's lead, well since his creation.

We seem to be on the same page as my point was pretty much the same thing you said here:

Aquaman had his own cartoon in the 60's, was in the main cast of Super Friends, and is a mainstay in the iconic Justice League roster. All these things made him a household name in pop culture, while Namor remained a niche character known mostly amongst comic fans. This was the case decades before Aquaman got his own movie.

Namor also had a 60s cartoon show. But Aquaman had a show WITH Superman in the 1960s, not his own standalone show. Which, again, shows how much support DC has given the character. Otherwise, I agree, that Aquaman is more popular with _mainstream_ audiences, because of the cartoons and the DC supporting and pushing the character. I wouldn't use the term niche, but Namor certainly was mainly known amongst comic readers, rather than the mainstream, at least since the 1970s.

[Reviresco]

The kids are older and don't need their mother as much. I'd play into that and have Sue try to find herself. Going on different adventures, meeting different people. Give her a very personal story that aims to answer the question: Who is Sue Storm?

Her trying to find herself could lead to many different adventures and by the end of it hopefully she is a much more well-rounded character. That's what I want.

That sounds like mid-life crisis Sue.

I don't think it would last more than one adventure in the current comics market, but I guess it would depend on the creative team.

[Crimz]

That sounds like mid-life crisis Sue.

I don't think it would last more than one adventure in the current comics market, but I guess it would depend on the creative team.

It doesn't have to last long, just be good for Sue's character development. Right now Sue doesn't have a personality or interests outside of "mother" and "strong". That is not a character, that's a prop for others. So what she needs most is story that makes her a 3-dimensional character with want, goals, and an interesting personality. It's not the end of the world if the book doesn't sell well or last long because it would put Sue in a much better place.

She'd (hopefully) be a more interesting character from then on both in and out of the Fantastic Four books. Which is what's most important right now for the character.

[CaptCleghorn]

You may have seen the locked thread regarding the Age of Marvel - New Universe fanfic thread where poster come up with solicitations for series. Sue is getting some good press here as the solicits for this month will be dropping soon and our "Fear Itself" event is wrapping up. In this particular mini, Reed had gone a bit overly enthusiastic and instead of defeating fictitious mad scientists, has become the worst of them all. Sue Storm, MD is the last hope to rein him in.

Supporting these books with a simple post saying "I'd buy this" is a simple and appreciated way to support different takes on your favorite characters. Please take a look.

[Oberon]

Maybe I didn't say that right, I am aware of Sue's turn as Captain Universe.

I remember those Sue as Madame Hydra stories, which were also 'quite a turn'.

Sue is some ultimate/semi ultimate template of purity that gets corrupted.

I'm surprised (if) we've never seen a story where Mephisto sees that soul purity (reminded of her role/feelings in Infinity Crusader for example or maybe some other times we see a nobility in her)

and tries to corrupt her. This would be a great story to me, because there are all these ways that the Big M would tempt her, all the family stuff/being held hostage, etc.

So something, new or more vital would have to be found... Are Sue Storm fans up to that task or do they see things the other way?

Sue is nearly a paragon of virtue or purity, Only characters like Silver Surfer may be above her.
If you don't see that at all, lets discuss this more (says the old guy who only looks in maybe once a day)

[CaptCleghorn]

Maybe I didn't say that right, I am aware of Sue's turn as Captain Universe.

I remember those Sue as Madame Hydra stories, which were also 'quite a turn'.

Sue is some ultimate/semi ultimate template of purity that gets corrupted.

I'm surprised (if) we've never seen a story where Mephisto sees that soul purity (reminded of her role/feelings in Infinity Crusader for example or maybe some other times we see a nobility in her)

and tries to corrupt her. This would be a great story to me, because there are all these ways that the Big M would tempt her, all the family stuff/being held hostage, etc.

So something, new or more vital would have to be found... Are Sue Storm fans up to that task or do they see things the other way?

Sue is nearly a paragon of virtue or purity, Only characters like Silver Surfer may be above her.
If you don't see that at all, lets discuss this more (says the old guy who only looks in maybe once a day)

I'm not sure I see Sue as a paragon of purity. Sure, she's a good person but her status as pure isn't up to superhuman levels. She has had to have been the adult in the room for so long that she acts this way in every instance we see her. This is why we need to see Sue with friends in situations where she can let her hair down.

Of course, I will be asked to show evidence of this. Granted. Sue has threatened foes with grievous bodily harm for messing with her family. Her threats to the Wizard and Doom are far from pure. She has shown signs of mischievous behavior. whether it's invisibly pantsing the Frightful Four or Dr. Doom, or by boxing up a mime in a force field. Again, her lack of personal development in stories hurts her because she is limited to the "Mom" lines. It reminds me of June Lockhart in an episode of Roseanne where she laments that "even the dog (Lassie) got better lines than I did".

Let her cuss somewhat. Let her have some wine with the Wasp (Janet, if she's alive currently).

The corruption is a valid storyline, except I do not see her as being a bastion of purity to be toppled, but her previous escapades with Malice showcase her potential for evil and that is reward for Mephisto.

A difference of opinion and well worthy of discussion.

[Digifiend]

Yes Janet's alive. She was never dead - after she was "killed off" in the mid 2000s and Hank became the Wasp, Janet later turned up in the Microverse. She's since become a Mom, after the Avengers discovered Hank had a daughter before he became Ant-Man and met Janet. Janet adopted the orphaned teenager Nadia (Hank had been killed off by that point, in the Rage of Ultron OGN), who had escaped from the Russian Red Room and created her own Wasp equipment. Since Nadia debuted, there's been two Wasps - she didn't replace Janet.

Until the recent Aquaman movie which steals much from Namor I really doubt Aquaman was more popular too.

IMO Namor has had some notable runs at Marvel . As you know, he was in Tales to Astonish for 30 issues before he got his solo title title that ran for 72 issues and the Namor series started by John Byrne had a long run. Namor was a member of the Avengers for a while etc. Wasn't Aquaman was always a normal human who adapted to existing under the sea for periods of time until DC revamped him many years later?

Wasn't he a punchline? Useless unless underwater, in which case "This looks like a job for Aquaman!"

That's how Aquaman started. He became more popular in the mainstream when Super Friends started. And DC has supported the character since.

Known, yes. Popular, no.

[Crimz]

Maybe I didn't say that right, I am aware of Sue's turn as Captain Universe.

I remember those Sue as Madame Hydra stories, which were also 'quite a turn'.

Sue is some ultimate/semi ultimate template of purity that gets corrupted.

I'm surprised (if) we've never seen a story where Mephisto sees that soul purity (reminded of her role/feelings in Infinity Crusader for example or maybe some other times we see a nobility in her)

and tries to corrupt her. This would be a great story to me, because there are all these ways that the Big M would tempt her, all the family stuff/being held hostage, etc.

So something, new or more vital would have to be found... Are Sue Storm fans up to that task or do they see things the other way?

Sue is nearly a paragon of virtue or purity, Only characters like Silver Surfer may be above her.
If you don't see that at all, lets discuss this more (says the old guy who only looks in maybe once a day)

I don't see Sue as the ultimate paragon of good and purity. She's just a normal person trying their best. Being a bastion of good works for Captain America but for others it lessens how much they can be related to. No one is 100% good and perfect so Sue shouldn't be portrayed that way.

The corruption angle is too 'Jean Grey' for me and it doesn't fit Sue. We already had a similar story from Byrne with Malice and it wasn't great. It played into tropes of "the emotionally unstable woman" and "corrupting the woman" which have a sexist aspect to them.

I think Sue just needs to be better defined as a character and after that the amount of stories that can be done for her will naturally expand. Right now she's limited in the amount if solo stories she can have because of her lack of defined personality traits.

[CaptCleghorn]

I think Sue just needs to be better defined as a character and after that the amount of stories that can be done for her will naturally expand. Right now she's limited in the amount if solo stories she can have because of her lack of defined personality traits.

This, to me, is putting the cart before the horse. A good writer will see the blank slate and put qualities into the character. Grant Morrison and Animal man for instance took a blank slate and turned him into a very interesting character. Waid's series was a good step. Granted, I'm not a big fan of the Sue as spy because she turns invisible thought, but it took Sue and linked her with outside characters who didn't have 4s on their uniforms.

[Digifiend]

For the same reason, how about giving Arana a solo series (they surely have something planned for her given the drastic status quo shift that just happened in Edge of Spider-Verse #1 released this week) and having Sue in her supporting cast? Anya's known the FF since before she got her powers as her father was a reporter who interviewed them. The relationship was revealed in a Spider-Girl run. Anya's father has since died, so she has no support network outside of the spiders. No adult she can turn to when she has a problem. Sue needs relationships outside the FF, and Anya needs a support network.

[Lukmendes]

Has Sue ever been a Defender? (think/sorta?)

I think only Ben has been a Defender, maybe Johnny too, I don't think her, or Reed, really joined another team besides very briefly joining the Avengers.

I'm sorry to wander a bit in this thread, and these can be moved, but the bolded is completely wrong. Aquaman has basically stolen from Namor repeatedly over the decades, right up to the movie, where just about everyone pointed out that Jason Momoa made a better Namor, amongst other things.

It ain't even just Aquaman too, Black Adam has similar ideas (Douchebag who was a villain, became more of an anti-hero/anti-villain depending on his mood), and the art can make 'em even look like they're brothers lol.

Until the recent Aquaman movie which steals much from Namor I really doubt Aquaman was more popular too.

Aquaman had DCAU around the 2000's which gave him a decent enough popularity, so outside of comics he had that.

Wasn't Aquaman was always a normal human who adapted to existing under the sea for periods of time until DC revamped him many years later?

That was the case in golden age, but I think around silver age he was changed into a half Atlantean, and if so, that origin was only around for 20 years, and I'm assuming golden age itself didn't change that.

Of course, I will be asked to show evidence of this. Granted. Sue has threatened foes with grievous bodily harm for messing with her family. Her threats to the Wizard and Doom are far from pure. She has shown signs of mischievous behavior. whether it's invisibly pantsing the Frightful Four or Dr. Doom, or by boxing up a mime in a force field. Again, her lack of personal development in stories hurts her because she is limited to the "Mom" lines. It reminds me of June Lockhart in an episode of Roseanne where she laments that "even the dog (Lassie) got better lines than I did".

I was re-reading her mini months ago and I noticed this gem:





(Invisible Woman#3)

"But it drives Ben nuts when I turn him pink, so..."

This sounds hilarious, and it's depressing it's a random comment about what she did instead of actually showing it, it also made me wonder if she's the one who taught Johnny how to play pranks lol.

Wasn't he a punchline? Useless unless underwater, in which case "This looks like a job for Aquaman!"

Among fans? Yes, but the character was generally treated seriously in the comics, hell, while Super Friends was going on, his son got killed by Black Manta in the comics (Was in the Death of a prince story).

2000's did him favors with DCAU, but he still had a lot of people who joked about him being useless.

For the same reason, how about giving Arana a solo series (they surely have something planned for her given the drastic status quo shift that just happened in Edge of Spider-Verse #1 released this week) and having Sue in her supporting cast? Anya's known the FF since before she got her powers as her father was a reporter who interviewed them. The relationship was revealed in a Spider-Girl run. Anya's father has since died, so she has no support network outside of the spiders. No adult she can turn to when she has a problem. Sue needs relationships outside the FF, and Anya needs a support network.
https://i.imgur.com/8zg3C2H.jpg

That could work, but I wonder if the writers even remember about this, 'cause Anya's story in Edge of Spider-Verse ignores the characters that were introduced in her previous on-going to introduce some new ones, and only really references the past as Araña.

It's not impossible for Sue to show up once in a while as a supporting character, but I have my doubts she'll do so, I could be wrong though.

[CaptCleghorn]

(Invisible Woman#3)

"But it drives Ben nuts when I turn him pink, so..."

This sounds hilarious, and it's depressing it's a random comment about what she did instead of actually showing it, it also made me wonder if she's the one who taught Johnny how to play pranks lol.

It's been mentioned before in this (or the FF thread) but I believe that Ben and Johnny don't prank Sue because she would kick their posteriors. Ben and Johnny seem evenly matched but I suspect Sue has a talent for this that Ben and Johnny want no part of.

[Digifiend]

I was re-reading her mini months ago and I noticed this gem:





(Invisible Woman#3)

"But it drives Ben nuts when I turn him pink, so..."

This sounds hilarious, and it's depressing it's a random comment about what she did instead of actually showing it, it also made me wonder if she's the one who taught Johnny how to play pranks lol.

lol, she should've used that ability on Franklin at the wedding (when he first revealed his dyed black hair, which had a blue streak in it initially), instead of just turning him invisible.

[Crimz]

lol, she should've used that ability on Franklin at the wedding (when he first revealed his dyed black hair, which had a blue streak in it initially), instead of just turning him invisible.

That would require Slott actually caring about the character enough to read books about her.
His entire run he did nothing with her which is very telling and a really sad pattern for Fantastic Four runs.