All of Snyder’s Films Rumored To Be Erased In The Flash; Cavill Out Also

[Superlad93]

I think this is about more than just Cavill now. And, to some degree, more than just Snyder. Like manofsteel1979 said, in every medium, from the comics to TV to the movies, they seem to be setting up for his successors to take over. This suggests they are preparing for a day when he won't be Superman anymore. This is an odd route to go if they know they are going to keep him.

You see it all around comics within the last 15 years. They're either doing shared mantels or outright replacements of characters that were created in the 20th century. DC was even the first to blaze the trail with the replacing of GL and Flash in the Silver age, and then again in the 80s.

This is just the first time they've tried to go for the big whale. And it's not like back in the late 70s or even mid 2000s. This is at a point where the Ls to Clark's name have piled up, Marvel is blazing a trail forward, and DC continues to look like "your granddad's heroes". It's a perfect storm.

Remember how back in Post-Crisis one of the first things they did to shuffle Hal off was gray up his hair and really treat him as out of his prime? Before you'd have to hold DC at gunpoint to get them to treat Clark, Bruce, and Diana as anything more than being in their late 20s early 30s. And getting them married was always a bitter pill for them.

Now Aquaman has a kid, Bruce was almost married, Superman has a kid, all that history is back so you can't pretend they're all 29 anymore, and now the only live action version of regular Clark around is one where he's married with two teenage boys and decades of being a hero.

It was a mass Hal Jordan-ing of the older heroes. And now it's a more subtle version of that. Keaton being the main universe Batman speaks for itself.

[Iclifton]

Honestly never been a fan of Cavill`s Superman. Modern audiences have a hard time relating to Superman, we need an actor who can really own the Clark Kent part of the role. The small town farm boy that people can relate to. Cavill has got the look for Superman but he is much to stoic for Clark. This is why he does well with characters like Geralt. Hoping for someone a little more down to earth for Clark. Oddball choice but I think Nichlas Hoult could play a great Clark and young Superman who is just starting out. Much like they are doing with Pattinsons Batman.

[Vordan]

I honestly don't blame Cavill for walking away is this is true.likr come one, really?

I get why he walked, being reduced to Captain Cameo when you were supposed to be the star of your own trilogy - before Snyder tossed that out the window to place Batman at the center - has to sting. But from what we know of Cavill’s desires for a sequel, he wanted to make more or less a direct sequel to MoS which was and is a terrible idea, maybe his ideas for where to go next aren’t much better? He’s got unusual taste, he loves For Tomorrow for example, so even though he clearly wants to go on a different track from Snyder he may not want to be different enough.

Keaton was more a back-up choice after Affleck left, than to replace Cavill's role. The latter was compared to Hulk (not Nick Fury) for the type of supporting role offered to him. Anyway, I can't see Cavill's SM (or any another SM) being WB's first choice to mentoring Batgirl and the Batfam.

Both Cavill and Keaton were in talks to reprise their respective roles around the same time:

https://deadline.com/2020/06/michael...ks-1202966393/

https://deadline.com/2020/05/man-of-...os-1202945025/

Rumor I’m referencing goes all the way back to before the 2018 report that Cavill was out. I definitely recall reading that WB was even at the time not interested in another Superman solo, but did want Cavill back. Even in the 2018 report Cavill refusing to do the Shazam cameo is portrayed as the breaking point where WB decided he was finished and they were going to move on from him. If he had done that cameo, plus a few others, he might be in a position now to get either a movie or an HBO Max series. At the very least i doubt they would've given Superman to Abrams and MBJ. Likely the Rock’s production company would’ve gotten the character instead

I can understand WB wanting to move on from Cavill, especially given his schedule with the Witcher is a big hurdle to work around. However, there's Brandon Routh over there to the side who would probably jump at the chance to be an elder statesman /mentor Superman to pop up in a support role ala Keaton 's Batman. If there can be two simultaneous versions of Bruce freaking Wayne on the cinema screens , why not have at least one baseline version of Clark Kent/classic Superman around as well?

It just rubs me the wrong way that...if the rumors are true...DC/WB is moving forward with a live action cinematic universe that has two versions of Bruce Wayne but apparently no version of Clark Kent. It feels like the writing being on the wall and more than a little bit of a slap in the face.

What is really apparent here is that if Affleck wanted to stay or if he decided to come back , they would have kept him and we would probably have Affleck be the mentor figure and maybe they would have still done the Reeves/Pattison Batman too. Cavill apparently has been eager to do more Superman for awhile , and you have a viable equally eagar alternative in Routh, and DC/WB is like "nah...we really don't need or want Superman." DC is more than fine and ok with having multiple Bruce Wayne's around but apparently Clark Kent is persona non grata and WB seems to be going out of its way to significantly reduce Clark Kents role across the board in his own franchise in almost every media. That tells us a lot.

Apparently they offered to let Affleck do his Batman movie as either a movie or series on HBO Max. Affleck declined, he just wants to be done. If thats true its utterly baffling they’re refusing to even give Cavill an HBO Max series. He’s a streaming star now!

I don't get this...I really don't get this

Cavill is loved by fans. He did a great job with Man of Steel. He WANTS to play Superman again. All WB needs to do is cast him as Superman again, make Brainiac the next villain, and voila! This really isn't complicated!!

How come Suicide Squad got a sequel but Superman couldn't? Why replace Cavil in the first place? Superman and Batman already have a large fan base due to the Snydercut.

Is there anybody in Hollywood even remotely connected to reality? This idea was done before and it really doesn't end well. We have these characters we want to push so lets take Heroes that fans love, throw them away or have them killed so these new characters take over. Who needs a story as long as we get the message out?

Let's go for the same pattern that follows the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and the Masters of the Universe Revelations.

Wouldn't it make more sense to see what movies actually do good? Let's say Spiderman's last flick?

He’s beloved by Snyder fans but the general audience doesn’t feel any strong connection to him, hence why WB thinks they can drop him without major pushback.

I normally side with Cavill, but since I don't know how the negotiations with WB went, I can't exclude the possibility that Cavill's demands are somewhat unreasonable, e.g. he overestimates his own worth to the DC movie franchise. Probably from a money side, WB is doing ok without Cavill, but for us fans Superman's absence is just embarrassing.

I'm just making up hypotheticals here, but if I were in charge of the movies and Henry Cavill went up to me and said, "I want Robert Downey Jr. money," I'd politely say come back with a reasonable offer. Not saying that's what Cavill demanded, but just saying you can't be outlandish with your asks.

That said, WB initially screwed Cavill over with BvS, which is why I generally side with Cavill.

I’m dying to know the specifics of what exactly he wants. That WB hasn’t leaked the details to the press makes me think they’re not that unreasonable, otherwise why wouldn’t they let the press know? Rumors state he wants that RDJ money like you say, but I don’t recall any of the major trades actually reporting that.

I think this is about more than just Cavill now. And, to some degree, more than just Snyder. Like manofsteel1979 said, in every medium, from the comics to TV to the movies, they seem to be setting up for his successors to take over. This suggests they are preparing for a day when he won't be Superman anymore. This is an odd route to go if they know they are going to keep him.

The only two major projects not featuring a take on Clark are the Val and Bendis Legion projects. And we don’t know yet if the Bendis Legion project will star Jon although its likely. Otherwise we’re getting a bunch of Clark Kent projects so I wouldn’t start screaming the sky is falling just yet. Besides Batman is going through the same deal: Gotham Knights is featuring his Family replacing him, Titans has Bruce retire in disgrace, Keaton won’t be an active Batman and will instead be a mentor for Batgirl. Does anyone seriously think that means Bruce is getting put out to pasture?

So they're finally addressing the rumors. But their responses aren't any less vague. It sounds like the merger theory might be correct:

https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-ezra-m...erverse-rumor/

That’s just “The Snyderverse will live on in your heart” lmao. WB isn’t deleting Snyder’s films off of HBO Max and preventing anyone from ever viewing them again, you can still go watch them whenever you want. But they won’t be in continuity or affecting the direction of the franchise, just like the state of Post Crisis in the New 52.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I normally side with Cavill, but since I don't know how the negotiations with WB went, I can't exclude the possibility that Cavill's demands are somewhat unreasonable, e.g. he overestimates his own worth to the DC movie franchise. Probably from a money side, WB is doing ok without Cavill, but for us fans Superman's absence is just embarrassing.

If this is the case, WB should give him the Rhodey Rhodes treatment and recast. I don't even think the general audience will notice after all these years that a different actor is playing SM in DCEU.

Rumor I’m referencing goes all the way back to before the 2018 report that Cavill was out. I definitely recall reading that WB was even at the time not interested in another Superman solo, but did want Cavill back. Even in the 2018 report Cavill refusing to do the Shazam cameo is portrayed as the breaking point where WB decided he was finished and they were going to move on from him. If he had done that cameo, plus a few others, he might be in a position now to get either a movie or an HBO Max series. At the very least i doubt they would've given Superman to Abrams and MBJ. Likely the Rock’s production company would’ve gotten the character instead

2018 was before Hamada become the president of DC films. Man, this Cavill situation is more messy than Affleck's.

[The Kid]

I honestly don't care about geriatric Batman and I feel like most people are chill on that since there's a young second year Bruce Batman getting his own film in a few months (one that has significantly more hype than anything else in the DCEU). It's the full removal of everything Clark that is wild. Hopefully black Clark Kent is a good take since I'll take any Clark over just removing him altogether.

The thing about the MCU is that they built up their legacy characters over a decade and built a lot of fan enthusiasm into their product before transitioning. I don't even get what WB is doing tbh especially since some of these movies are apparently streaming only. How is Batgirl going to be the future of DCEU when you put her movie straight to HBO Max while Bruce's reboot is getting a full cinematic treatment? After Wonder Woman 84 tanking all the goodwill of the first movie, there's a lot riding on The Flash and Aquaman since The Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey flopped and Shazam came and went. If these two movies don't do it, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the cinematic universe. Might need a full reboot but idk. I think Reeve refusing to let his Batman reboot be part of the shared universe might be one of the smartest plays ever since that's the only product that seems to have any enthusiasm behind it right now

[Prime]

I love the fact that the idiotic WB suits can't tell that this is all their fault not Cavill's fault.

[Superlad93]

The thing about the MCU is that they built up their legacy characters over a decade and built a lot of fan enthusiasm into their product before transitioning. I don't even get what WB is doing tbh especially since some of these movies are apparently streaming only. How is Batgirl going to be the future of DCEU when you put her movie straight to HBO Max while Bruce's reboot is getting a full cinematic treatment? After Wonder Woman 84 tanking all the goodwill of the first movie, there's a lot riding on The Flash and Aquaman since The Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey flopped and Shazam came and went. If these two movies don't do it, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the cinematic universe. Might need a full reboot but idk. I think Reeve refusing to let his Batman reboot be part of the shared universe might be one of the smartest plays ever since that's the only product that seems to have any enthusiasm behind it right now

It's likely the idea of going off pure output alone and a bastardized Disney+ model.

You basically do the out of continuity/prestige films only in theaters for obvious reasons. But you do things like Supergirl and Batgirl on Max just to get them out there in a relatively shorter amount of time to build up your new direction. Then you make stuff like a new Justice League movie for just theaters and use the output from the MAX shows to just dive into it.

Disney+ changed the game because it proved that fans will potentially follow these IPs outside of the theater, and are willing to accept big world changing things happening buried under a season of TV. Loki and Wanda Vision are crazy important shows (maybe the most important things coming out of Marvel this phase so far), and Falcon and Winter Solder just flat out gave us a new Captain America who is also apparently getting a movie. What's that? Didn't see the show before going into the movie? No one has sympathy for you in this era. Like going to see Endgame without seeing anything else. That's on you for not knowing how this era works, and they're getting away with it clean.

That said, there are some actors who have it in their contracts that they don't appear on anything that could be considered a TV show. That's soon going to be a thing actors who want to get superhero money need to bend on in this era.

Marvel has basically allowed DC to build up a new rebooted universe over streaming and then present it over film, and that's how Batgirl is still very much the future of the DCEU.

[Prime]

I get why he walked, being reduced to Captain Cameo when you were supposed to be the star of your own trilogy - before Snyder tossed that out the window to place Batman at the center - has to sting. But from what we know of Cavill’s desires for a sequel, he wanted to make more or less a direct sequel to MoS which was and is a terrible idea, maybe his ideas for where to go next aren’t much better? He’s got unusual taste, he loves For Tomorrow for example, so even though he clearly wants to go on a different track from Snyder he may not want to be different enough.

Dude does get Superman though. I have heard him talk about the character. Maybe ? Maybe not we have yet to see. But the retards in WB made a bad call a smaller more personal movie would have been the right move

[Vordan]

You see it all around comics within the last 15 years. They're either doing shared mantels or outright replacements of characters that were created in the 20th century. DC was even the first to blaze the trail with the replacing of GL and Flash in the Silver age, and then again in the 80s.

This is just the first time they've tried to go for the big whale. And it's not like back in the late 70s or even mid 2000s. This is at a point where the Ls to Clark's name have piled up, Marvel is blazing a trail forward, and DC continues to look like "your granddad's heroes". It's a perfect storm.

Remember how back in Post-Crisis one of the first things they did to shuffle Hal off was gray up his hair and really treat him as out of his prime? Before you'd have to hold DC at gunpoint to get them to treat Clark, Bruce, and Diana as anything more than being in their late 20s early 30s. And getting them married was always a bitter pill for them.

Now Aquaman has a kid, Bruce was almost married, Superman has a kid, all that history is back so you can't pretend they're all 29 anymore, and now the only live action version of regular Clark around is one where he's married with two teenage boys and decades of being a hero.

It was a mass Hal Jordan-ing of the older heroes. And now it's a more subtle version of that. Keaton being the main universe Batman speaks for itself.

Anyone can wear the mask/cowl/cape right? I get why companies are going in this direction. If you take a look at the cultural landscape, there’s zero appetite for new stuff right now. It’s all just reboots and revamps. How then do you ensure longevity of your IP, and make it capable of always expanding into new markets? Simple: you make a bunch of other characters who are part of the same IP but can expand into different markets. Spider-Man was the first to do this in a big way in outside media, but it’s becoming the norm. There’s Peter at the center, there’s Miles who gets the black market, Gwen gets the female market (God I wish it was Mayday), Miguel seems set to appeal to Latinos, and so on and so forth. Superman is going through the same process now, as is the rest of all the other superheroes.

But there’s a difference. The main MCU stars got their story told in a satisfying way that fulfilled the fanboys dreams of the OGs interacting in a way they never thought possible. Steve and Tony got great sendoffs that brought their stories to a close, so people don’t feel as upset at Sam taking over for Steve or whatever. In contrast we didn’t get that with the DC guys. We didn’t get the Superman/Batman team up we always wanted. We didn’t get the JL team up we always wanted. Instead of a great sendoff the Flash is basically tossing everything into the garbage. I doubt the response from the general public is going to be as positive towards WB’s plans as they have been towards Marvel’s. I personally am happy they’re tossing the Snyderverse in the garbage but I don’t feel any enthusiasm for what’s coming next. WB is gambling they can replace their core fanbase with a new one and I’m unsure if they’re correct in that assumption. Least it doesn’t involve evil Superman anymore.

If this is the case, WB should give him the Rhodey Rhodes treatment and recast. I don't even think the general audience will notice after all these years that a different actor is playing SM in DCEU.

2018 was before Hamada become the president of DC films. Man, this Cavill situation is more messy than Affleck's.

Like Docha said they should just bring in Routh. Hamada did make another offer to Cavill, but he seems to be the one who decided to cut their losses with Cavill when Cavill wouldn’t play ball. Unless Zaslov kicks Hamada out I don’t think Cavill will get another chance. Lot is riding on the Flash, if that flops we may get another shakeup.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Like Docha said they should just bring in Routh. Hamada did make another offer to Cavill, but he seems to be the one who decided to cut their losses with Cavill when Cavill wouldn’t play ball. Unless Zaslov kicks Hamada out I don’t think Cavill will get another chance. Lot is riding on the Flash, if that flops we may get another shakeup.

Matt Bomer as Superman. Give him a chance.

If The Flash flop, WB should consider to give up the idea of a DC cinematic universe or do build a new JL in the Battinson universe.

[Frontier]

Matt Bomer as Superman. Give him a chance.

If The Flash flop, WB should consider to give up the idea of a DC cinematic universe or do build a new JL in the Battinson universe.

Matt Bomer's played a surprising amount of Superheroes (Superman, Flash, Negative Man) on and off the screen.

[HsssH]

Marvel has basically allowed DC to build up a new rebooted universe over streaming and then present it over film, and that's how Batgirl is still very much the future of the DCEU.

I don't know, I think that people wouldn't have cared that much about Loki and the other shows if MCU wasn't a mega hit. Nobody really cares about DC's cinematic universe, why should they care about Batgirls movie on HBO?

Lot is riding on the Flash, if that flops we may get another shakeup.

I'm obviously not an expert, but I can't imagine how Flash doesn't flop? Almost everything we hear about it sounds bad.

[Frontier]

I'm obviously not an expert, but I can't imagine how Flash doesn't flop? Almost everything we hear about it sounds bad.

Well, the cast seem enthusiastic enough about it and maybe there's some semblance of a proper movie mixed in there, but...

[The Kid]

It's likely the idea of going off pure output alone and a bastardized Disney+ model.

You basically do the out of continuity/prestige films only in theaters for obvious reasons. But you do things like Supergirl and Batgirl on Max just to get them out there in a relatively shorter amount of time to build up your new direction. Then you make stuff like a new Justice League movie for just theaters and use the output from the MAX shows to just dive into it.

Disney+ changed the game because it proved that fans will potentially follow these IPs outside of the theater, and are willing to accept big world changing things happening buried under a season of TV. Loki and Wanda Vision are crazy important shows (maybe the most important things coming out of Marvel this phase so far), and Falcon and Winter Solder just flat out gave us a new Captain America who is also apparently getting a movie. What's that? Didn't see the show before going into the movie? No one has sympathy for you in this era. Like going to see Endgame without seeing anything else. That's on you for not knowing how this era works, and they're getting away with it clean.

That said, there are some actors who have it in their contracts that they don't appear on anything that could be considered a TV show. That's soon going to be a thing actors who want to get superhero money need to bend on in this era.

Marvel has basically allowed DC to build up a new rebooted universe over streaming and then present it over film, and that's how Batgirl is still very much the future of the DCEU.

I don't see that as exactly the same thing. Pretty much all the Disney+ shows can be skipped right now and you can follow it. Now this might change when new characters like Moon Knight and Ms. Marvel show up but Strange basically ignores everything WandaVision in the teaser and we already saw Steve give Sam the shield at the end of the Endgame. IMO it's the height of craziness to launch the new 'Batman' on HBO Max instead of theaters especially when HBO Max has significantly less subscribers than Disney+. It'd be like Marvel putting the next Fantastic Four only on streaming, just crazy.

I honestly see DC Films still hedging bets right now. They're trying to salvage the shared universe since WW and Aquaman were hits (the only reasons the whole thing didn't get scrapped IMO). But at the same time, they're launching an unrelated Batman series that already has two HBO Max spinoffs and multiple sequels planned along with a Clark Kent Superman reboot that is an out of continuity different take in case they want to pivot. Especially since the last few DCEU films have all underperformed or outright flopped so it's really hanging on the slate of films releasing this year. Only Joker, an out of continuity film, has really been that hit for them compared to WW84, Birds of Prey, and The Suicide Squad

[HsssH]

Well, the cast seem enthusiastic enough about it and maybe there's some semblance of a proper movie mixed in there, but...

Well, cast was enthusiastic about Whedon's Justice League as well.