All of Snyder’s Films Rumored To Be Erased In The Flash; Cavill Out Also

[Myskin]

Comics will never be what they were but they seem to be doing fine for now. I dunno man I’m not really sure what you’re looking for from the medium. These days what really “relaunches” characters is outside media. Harley Quinn experienced a resurgence in popularity because of the Arkham games, Batman began utterly lapping the rest of DC because the 2000s were a Golden Age of Batman content, Hal Jordan and the GL mythos has fallen back into a slump because the GL movie flopped, WW is getting more attention and focus because her movie was a success, she’s getting a video game before Superman because of that, the Flash skyrocketed in popularity because of the CW show, and Invincible has experienced another resurgence in popularity because of the animated cartoon. A successful “relaunch” for Superman pretty much has to come outside of comics, and even then it will take multiple successes. The CW show is a nice start but I agree it can’t permanently change views on him alone. A good CW show + MAWS being good + Bendis LoSH show being good + a Superman movie/video game coming out and being good? That would help revive the character.

Let's try to clarify what we are talking about.
If we are talking about the comic books, and the possibility of a resurgence of popularity of Superman as a comic book character, we have never been as far from the target as we are today. There are several factors at play here - including the so-far-slow, but increasingly faster death of American superhero books as a medium (whereas comic books - that includes mangas - are generally quite healthy). It's a shame because I consider comics culturally relevant and personally speaking I will never forgive Marvel or DC for what they have done to the medium and/or the creators. But if the companies do not trust their own product, there isn't much readers can do. In addition, even in the context of the poor IP farm comic books have become, the Superman bar - as far as I am concerned - is quite low. Basically they are milking the character AND the readers with generally unsubstantial stuff, even if from time to time something readable (PKJ?) may appear. The point is not that they are going to cancel Superman comics pretty soon - I am quite sure that in 10 years something may still exist, maybe similar to what Dynamite comics did with pulp characters, the Phantom and Flash Gordon. The point is that if - ad absurdum - tomorrow Superman comics disappeared wholly from solicitations, very few people would realize it and perceive it as a loss.

If we are talking about movies, and the possibility of a Superman cinematic relaunch, well, we are quite far from that too. The presence of several derivative characters in forthcoming movies or series (Supergirl, Val Zod etc; Super-Pets isn't indicative of much, as said before) IMHO is actually more of a problem rather than anything else - provided the Supergirl movie is successful (and provided they make a Supergirl movie), it will inflate the brand and "steal" distinctive Superman elements which will become more difficult to see if and when they actually relaunch the main character. I mean, if they actually made a Supergirl movie isn't it rather likely that the villain would be Brainiac? And again, IF they think there's some money in it they could actually make an "Iron Man 1" Superman movie, but - for the reasons I have explained above - I have serious doubts it may be really successful.

If we are talking about the character as a whole (I am referring his presence in several media at the same time and how culturally relevant it is in its entirety - let's assume that the peak in this field is the Batman era/decade which included Burton's Batman, Moore's TKJ, Miller's DKR and Timm's Batman TAS), well, that's where things become interesting. I don't think that the CW series will actually help in that regard no matter how many people watch it (as I said above, these specific series are very disposable, people watch them and forget them rather quickly, it's not that the CW Supergirl series has left a huge void or has helped that character to become insanely popular). But the mere existence of the CW series is - if nothing else - the proof that here may still be some juice left in the classic Superman.
The point is - and has always been, for at least three decades, that is basically the only REAL, almost unsolvable problem the character has had - the character needs to be renovated/restructured as a whole. That's the point. No matter how much fans or DC or WB refuse to see it - the character should work again in a modern context, he should have really relatable elements - not because he represents HOPE!!1!! or because people will join him in the sun or crap like that - he should be what he hasn't been for decades - a CHARACTER, not a symbol. And that's something many people expected from New52, Earth One, Man of Steel, etc - and all of them, for various reasons, failed.
So that's the reason my bet is on the forthcoming animated series: it is the only, real context where the character and the dynamics with the supporting cast MUST be redesigned to work. If it was just a rehearsal of the Donnerverse, or the DCEU, it wouldn't work. Because of the format. Because of the target audience. Because of the aesthetics, etc. I actually think that people are overlooking how important for the character that series may actually be - we may potentially have another Batman TAS-level milestone here. And if it works and is popular enough it would be of huge help for other versions of the character. Of course, it has to take a lot of effort to actually work AND be influential. I mean, the forthcoming Caped Crusader series has Ed Brubaker together with Bruce Timm and Matt Reeves and Superman would need at least, I don't know, Mark Waid? Greg Pak? But it would be even better if it was someone very creative OUTSIDE the comic field - basically what the animated series would need is someone akin to Bryan Konietzko and Dante DiMartino, who dealt with Superman with care and freedom as if he was a creator-owned character.

So... These are my two cents. As far as what I will personally do, if it is of any importance, I promise that - provided they don't do anything to discourage me - I will watch a couple of episodes of the series. As for the other Super-related products, I am not interested and I don't think that they are really "important", so my attention will be elsewhere. Of course this doesn't mean that someone else can't enjoy them.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Some person who originated this rumor is now saying this:

[superduperman]

Looks like Cavill may have waited himself out of a job.

[Vordan]

Looks like Cavill may have waited himself out of a job.

That’s been clear since 2018. When he refused to do the Shazam cameo and then refused to come back for Flash, it was the end for him. I don’t expect to see him in Supergirl nor do I expect him to ever wear the cape again. If we ever get another traditional take on Superman in film I hope they don’t **** the bed the way Snyder did.

[Amadeus Arkham]

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...th-Female-Lead

[Prime]

That’s been clear since 2018. When he refused to do the Shazam cameo and then refused to come back for Flash, it was the end for him. I don’t expect to see him in Supergirl nor do I expect him to ever wear the cape again. If we ever get another traditional take on Superman in film I hope they don’t **** the bed the way Snyder did.

I don't blame him. But i do wish they just make it clear.

[Amadeus Arkham]

[DochaDocha]

I mean, it's not like they were required to do work with Cavill, right? They could've just parted ways with him and hire another actor, right?

This whole situation screams stupid.

[Vordan]

I mean, it's not like they were required to do work with Cavill, right? They could've just parted ways with him and hire another actor, right?

This whole situation screams stupid.

It’s clear they don’t have any faith in a traditional take on Superman himself at this point either. I absolutely agree they should’ve just kicked Cavill out and recast the role of Superman with Routh or a new actor. Maybe they will down the line?

[Myskin]

I mean, it's not like they were required to do work with Cavill, right? They could've just parted ways with him and hire another actor, right?

In WB's defense... It's not that easy to recast THE main character of an entire franchise after the first chapter. I mean, how many times has that successfully happened in cinema history? It's not that I think that Cavill is THE definitive Superman or anything - heck, as far as I am concerned he's an expressionless performer and his "chemistry" with Amy Adams must be one of the most laughably insignificant I have ever seen in a blockbuster - but I have to admit that as long as Snyder was on board they never shied away from some of the most debatable moments of their movies. I mean, Metropolis' destruction in MOS is actually THE main plot point in BvS (and, to a degree, Zod's killing, too).

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that the DCEU as a whole is probably the most spectacular creative trainwreck I have ever seen in my life. I mean, I get it - after MOS they tried to save what could be saved with BvS, but boy, after "Do you bleed?" BatFleck they should have just pulled an Amazing Spider-Man 2, admitting that they had made a mess and start anew with a fresh mind. Just those two movies have so many problems and they are so incredibly flawed that how they could hope to build something solid on those foundation is beyond by understanding. As far as the DCEU as a whole is concerned, at this point it is a huge mess with a couple of positive points here and there. Basically, it's Bizarro MCU.

I actually HOPE that the rumors about the Supergirl movies are true. Heck, I hope that Zod is villain, possibly teaming up with Brainiac in his first on-screen appearance. I am serious. I want to see how far they can go with this situation before burning all of their IPs to the ground except for Batman. By the way, next year we have the 10-year anniversary of the DCEU, right? Maybe we should celebrate with an appropriate cake - a hot circle of pure garbage with a couple of tasty, sweet chocolate decorations.

[manwhohaseverything]

they aren't touching aquaman unless the aquaman2 isn't what they hoped it will.The chances of that is none.Aquaverse is awesome.I don't care about batman at all.Then there is black adam and jsa.Yeah!If they burn down all of their ip batman can go to hell.

[superduperman]

The DC movie universe was a train wreck almost from jump. They wanted to compete with the MCU so badly that they sped through the natural process of establishing a universe. Establish Superman and then jump right into adapting DKR? Yeah, no. And "let's make everything grim and gritty" isn't the way to go. It wouldn't break my heart if this universe just died.

[seismic-2]

In WB's defense... It's not that easy to recast THE main character of an entire franchise after the first chapter. I mean, how many times has that successfully happened in cinema history?

Um, James Bond?

Edit: oh, sorry, I see you meant after <i>just</i> the first chapter. But actually, that might be an even better time to make a change, before the actor and the role have a chance to become cemented in the audience's consciousness.

[Myskin]

Um, James Bond?

I don't consider James Bond in the same league - each Bond "era" seems to have its own continuity (which is generally quite loose anyway except for the Craig version). There are very few recurring elements, for example Q and M (Judi Dench).

Edit: oh, sorry, I see you meant after <i>just</i> the first chapter. But actually, that might be an even better time to make a change, before the actor and the role have a chance to become cemented in the audience's consciousness.

Again - how often has it ever happened? I mean, how can you build a coherent franchise if you replace the main face after chapter one but not the cast? It would be confusing as hell. I mean, MCU replaced Edward Norton with Mark Ruffalo, but Ruffalo appeared in The Avengers as a part of the main cast, not as a solo protagonist. And the ties between TIH and TA are so vague (no Betty Ross, no Chief, no Abomination) that you could barely consider it in the same continuity. Also, it's the Hulk - half of the time he's CGI.

[The World]

Tbh I don't really get the eagerness to recreate the Donner/Reeves era Superman movies or pointing towards the tv shows as some kind of sign of where the franchise needs to be heading. His numbers from both are trending downwards. Each Reeve movie made less money than the one before it, including from 1 to 2. Lois and Clark, to Smallville, to the current Superman and Lois you once again are losing viewers from one show to the next. Quite honestly that points towards people seeing something with some initial novelty before rapidly losing interest and moving on to something else. I'd argue other than the original Superman: The Movie the Superman franchise has mainly had things that seem big if you look at some numbers in isolation but when you look at the overall effect they've had on pushing the character forward they're pretty much nothing burgers. I've seen people tout Lois & Clark as this big thing for keeping Superman in the public consciousness because it boasted 40 million viewers at one point. These days no one talks about that show unless Dean Cain has put himself in the news somehow. The most significant thing about that show are the political opinions of the old main character, that's it. Other than that it's just a dated rom-com sitcom from the 90's and if someone points out the best sit coms from the 90's they're more likely to point to Fraisher, Friends, or Sienfield than Lois & Clark.

By comparison pretty much everything Batman has been throwing out has created a certain amount of inertia behing the character since the 80's. Even his "failures" like the Schumacher films seem to lend it's itself to his overall momentum.