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  1. #226
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    to the current Superman and Lois you once again are losing viewers from one show to the next. Quite honestly that points towards people seeing something with some initial novelty before rapidly losing interest and moving on to something else.
    Going to put this up front: I generally don't like CW-style shows, so it's not like I ever root for them to succeed.

    With that out of the way, what's considered good or bad ratings retention? I see Superman & Lois ratings hovered around 1.2 million for the first five episodes, then went up and down for the next 10 episodes, and then the last episode of the season had by far the lowest rating.

    It looks like the show's mid-season hiatus put a huge dent in its ratings, which explains how it went from 1.2 million viewers to 700k. And the two extra weeks off between the 13th and 14th episode probably hurt the ratings for the last two. But I'm just surprised that the 15th episode pulled in such lousy numbers. I figured season finales usually got a slight bump in the same way that the last issue in a comic run often does.

    In short, I'm not sure how well this show is performing against expectations. It was the fifth-highest rated show on the network last year for the 18-49 age demo. Maybe the issue is less that it lost a bunch of viewers since its debut and more that its intro episodes pulled in more viewers than what was really expected. I dunno.

  2. #227
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    After the first page or so I simply don't have the patience to wade through all the same arguments again, so if it has already been said I apologise but:

    THE MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE DCEU AND REBOOTING/RETOOLING IT WILL ONLY PISS OFF THE FANS IT HAS.

    Marvel, a brand the mainstream loves, is already doing this timey-wimey multi-dimension stuff so even if you consider it counter-programming the fact is the audience will love it from Marvel and hate/not give a **** from DC.

    Just leave the old DCEU alone and release GOOD solo films. That is what the market has proved it will tolerate from DC.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

    "I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"

    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  3. #228
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Tbh I don't really get the eagerness to recreate the Donner/Reeves era Superman movies or pointing towards the tv shows as some kind of sign of where the franchise needs to be heading. His numbers from both are trending downwards. Each Reeve movie made less money than the one before it, including from 1 to 2. Lois and Clark, to Smallville, to the current Superman and Lois you once again are losing viewers from one show to the next. Quite honestly that points towards people seeing something with some initial novelty before rapidly losing interest and moving on to something else. I'd argue other than the original Superman: The Movie the Superman franchise has mainly had things that seem big if you look at some numbers in isolation but when you look at the overall effect they've had on pushing the character forward they're pretty much nothing burgers. I've seen people tout Lois & Clark as this big thing for keeping Superman in the public consciousness because it boasted 40 million viewers at one point. These days no one talks about that show unless Dean Cain has put himself in the news somehow. The most significant thing about that show are the political opinions of the old main character, that's it. Other than that it's just a dated rom-com sitcom from the 90's and if someone points out the best sit coms from the 90's they're more likely to point to Fraisher, Friends, or Sienfield than Lois & Clark.

    By comparison pretty much everything Batman has been throwing out has created a certain amount of inertia behing the character since the 80's. Even his "failures" like the Schumacher films seem to lend it's itself to his overall momentum.
    TBH I think there is value in all this. The last smash hit Superman series was almost 50 years ago

  4. #229
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yep I think Clark and Lois would be dead as well. Fits with them adapting Pre-Crisis stuff for Jon, now he’s got the dead “Ma and Pa” right as he’s on the cusp of adulthood. Heh maybe they do actually bring Reeves Superman into the DCEU and say he and Kidder Lois were Jon’s parents? Instead of Supergirl being their kid it will be her raising Jon. Ah who knows?
    Reeves Superman's fate is already known, as Routh's is the same incarnation and appeared in the Arrowverse Crisis. Joker killed everyone at the Planet, Lois included. He basically became the Superman of Kingdom Come.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Technically Coates/Abrams film is still Clark although a take on what it would be like if he was Black but I know what you mean. It'll take a while but I'm sure he'll eventually be on the big screen again. It could take years for that though depending on the new DCEU. Personally, I'm expecting the DCEU to do even worse. WW84 pretty much tanked all goodwill from the first WW movie, Aquaman had basically no pop culture impact and the sequel might not even release in China this time (first one made bank there), and their recent films (TSS, Birds of Prey, Shazam) all did just ok or straight up flopped. I think the odds of a full reboot within the next ten years is likely but damn it'll be a slog. Matt Reeves was smart when he refused to let his Batman be part of the mess that is the DCEU
    Birds of Prey's theatrical run got truncated by the cinemas closing due to COVID lockdowns, to be fair. Shazam didn't flop. Flops don't get sequels, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    You know what’s funny?

    2021 saw the release of 3 high profile JL type properties. Zack Snyder’s JL, Netflix’s Jupiter’s Legacy and MCU’s Eternals. Eternals flopped and was rotten with critics. Jupiter’s Legacy was rotten with critics and cancelled after 1 season. WB has the GENUINE ARTICLE and positive feedback from fans and critics and they are intent on doing nothing with it. They deserve to lose and fail. Way to take the wrong lesson from 2021.
    Eternals is only the second failure for Marvel Studios I think? Thor The Dark World being the other, as it's follow-up Ragnarok was a major retool.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I can understand WB wanting to move on from Cavill, especially given his schedule with the Witcher is a big hurdle to work around. However, there's Brandon Routh over there to the side who would probably jump at the chance to be an elder statesman /mentor Superman to pop up in a support role ala Keaton 's Batman.
    He already reprised the role for Crisis on Infinite Earths.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    The thing about the MCU is that they built up their legacy characters over a decade and built a lot of fan enthusiasm into their product before transitioning. I don't even get what WB is doing tbh especially since some of these movies are apparently streaming only. How is Batgirl going to be the future of DCEU when you put her movie straight to HBO Max while Bruce's reboot is getting a full cinematic treatment? After Wonder Woman 84 tanking all the goodwill of the first movie, there's a lot riding on The Flash and Aquaman since The Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey flopped and Shazam came and went. If these two movies don't do it, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the cinematic universe. Might need a full reboot but idk. I think Reeve refusing to let his Batman reboot be part of the shared universe might be one of the smartest plays ever since that's the only product that seems to have any enthusiasm behind it right now
    This thread is too long isn't it? You're repeating yourself!
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  5. #230
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Reeves Superman's fate is already known, as Routh's is the same incarnation and appeared in the Arrowverse Crisis. Joker killed everyone at the Planet, Lois included. He basically became the Superman of Kingdom Come.
    I'd make two points:

    1) There's no really good reason to revisit Reeve's Superman at this point, IMO, unless it were a small role in a multiverse story.

    spoilers:
    It worked in No Way Home because Tobey and Andrew are still 40-ish and can be made up to look like their younger selves. You actually feel like it's the same characters from 2002 and 2012 in an authentic way that didn't work for Routh in 2006.
    end of spoilers

    2) If they should decide to revisit Reeve's Superman, by no means should they treat the Arrowverse as absolute canon. That's really asking casual fans to dig deep to connect the dots.

    Below is a simplified, binary tree of what potential futures should look like:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #231
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Reeves Superman's fate is already known, as Routh's is the same incarnation and appeared in the Arrowverse Crisis. Joker killed everyone at the Planet, Lois included. He basically became the Superman of Kingdom Come.
    Laughing at the notion that the film side would give a single damn what the Arrowverse did if by some miracle they did bring Routh back. They’d completely ignore that, don’t kid yourself.
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  7. #232
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I don't think it's a problem in that there appear to be multiple versions of the Donner Superman anyway. Does Superman 78 take place in the same universe as Returns? Or COIE? I doubt it. Each seems to be their own take on the Donner Superman independent of each other.
    Assassinate Putin!

  8. #233
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Err, now that I think about it, this is probably a more accurate tree diagram/timeline of Reeve's Superman from movies and TV, since Superman Returns doesn't function very well as either a sequel to the second movie or a prequel to the third.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    You know what’s funny?

    2021 saw the release of 3 high profile JL type properties. Zack Snyder’s JL, Netflix’s Jupiter’s Legacy and MCU’s Eternals. Eternals flopped and was rotten with critics. Jupiter’s Legacy was rotten with critics and cancelled after 1 season. WB has the GENUINE ARTICLE and positive feedback from fans and critics and they are intent on doing nothing with it. They deserve to lose and fail. Way to take the wrong lesson from 2021.
    Eternals wasn't a flop, it made a decent amount of money, got good audience scores.

  10. #235
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    Didn't read the whole thread, but was Cavill ever supposed to be in Shazam really, or was that just a rumor? I have a hard time seeing him turning it down seeing how eager he is to play the role for even a cameo now; it felt more like WB vetoing it for pretty much the apparent reasons.

  11. #236
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil1 View Post
    Didn't read the whole thread, but was Cavill ever supposed to be in Shazam really, or was that just a rumor? I have a hard time seeing him turning it down seeing how eager he is to play the role for even a cameo now; it felt more like WB vetoing it for pretty much the apparent reasons.
    I feel like it was rumored that they approached him but had to settle for just the suit.

  12. #237
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil1 View Post
    Didn't read the whole thread, but was Cavill ever supposed to be in Shazam really, or was that just a rumor? I have a hard time seeing him turning it down seeing how eager he is to play the role for even a cameo now; it felt more like WB vetoing it for pretty much the apparent reasons.
    Sandberg said Cavill pulled out at the last minute which is why they did the body double stunt.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  13. #238
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Flash had a test screening and Cavill wasn’t in the movie at all outside of archival footage, with the move explicitly saying Superman does not exist in the post Flashpoint DCEU apparently. But they apparently don’t kill or erase Affleck lol. So the guy who wanted out can still come back and the guy who wants to keep playing is explicitly shown the door.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  14. #239
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Flash had a test screening and Cavill wasn’t in the movie at all outside of archival footage, with the move explicitly saying Superman does not exist in the post Flashpoint DCEU apparently. But they apparently don’t kill or erase Affleck lol. So the guy who wanted out can still come back and the guy who wants to keep playing is explicitly shown the door.
    Typical WB.

  15. #240
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Typical WB.
    It’s especially funny given Cavill said he wanted to play a more traditional Superman, and now the only way for him to return is as evil Superman is these leaks are accurate.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

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