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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    I do wonder how they plan to swing these alleged changes with Aquaman 2 and Wonder Woman 3.

    I'm still waiting on that Green Lantern project. On either HBOMax or a movie.

    Who is in charge of the DCEU ship now? Feels like they're just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.


    I have my doubts about a full Flashpoint reboot of the movies. If the Flash underperforms like The Suicide Squad underperformed at the BO. I suspect they'll be undoing their retcon and going back to the old status quo. Or just flat out cancelling all joint projects.

    Least they could do is let Snyder finish his JL trilogy. 1 down, two to go. Even if we don't get another Cavil or Batflect solo.

  2. #17
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    I do wonder how they plan to swing these alleged changes with Aquaman 2 and Wonder Woman 3.

    I'm still waiting on that Green Lantern project. On either HBOMax or a movie.

    Who is in charge of the DCEU ship now? Feels like they're just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.


    I have my doubts about a full Flashpoint reboot of the movies. If the Flash underperforms like The Suicide Squad underperformed at the BO. I suspect they'll be undoing their retcon and going back to the old status quo. Or just flat out cancelling all joint projects.

    Least they could do is let Snyder finish his JL trilogy. 1 down, two to go. Even if we don't get another Cavil or Batflect solo.
    GL Max series is supposedly starting to film soon. Hamada is in charge of the films. They’re not bringing Snyder back. Affleck wanted out and has no desire to ever return. Giving Snyder $400 million to finish his JL trilogy is an absolutely insane ask and would never happen. They would also need to get Affleck and Cavill back, Affleck who is walking away of his own accord, and Cavill who wants A-List money, producer credit, and his own solo film. Cavill only has one more film left on his contract which may end up being used by the Flash, so you’d have to do an entire new contract for him.

    It’s a huge ask and it’s not happening. If the Flash flops we’ll probably see Hamada get removed and someone new will come in, but that’s unlikely to result in Cavill’s return never mind Snyder’s.
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  3. #18
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I don’t remember reports saying that 5G originated anywhere except Didio. That would make sense, he had a long documented distaste for legacies, for him to endorse something like 5G which was a complete 180 on that was always odd. If you have a link to any of these reports I’d love to read them.
    I don't have them on hand, but I distinctly remember that Bleeding Cool (who everyone has to admit by now was totally on the money about everything with 5G) saying that DC and WB basically called for 5G because of it's multimedia applications.

    I could see them recreating Kara’s death in that, just with Jon being the one to hold her body in the iconic pose. Think Coates is the Superman they’re more likely to use however as E2 Supes. Far as I know the Val show is a limited series that’s basically just an ego project for MBJ, not connected to any film plans. If it’s a hit they could always bring it in of course. Maybe they’ll cast a new DCEU Clark to fight Adam or to be Jon’s dad however, but we’ll never get another solo Clark film in the DCEU.
    I imagine that it's possible Adam fights Jon when he's Superman, and that effectively allows for both parties to come out looking reasonably well. The Rock gets his fairly clear win, but it's against a 17 year old so the audience still goes "well give him a few years-- I mean, did you see how well he held up at JUST 17". Rather than Adam vs Clark which has basically no wiggle room for such ambiguity.

    And you might be right about Coats' Superman being the one given that it seems to be set in the 20th century, but even then it's seeming more like a Joker style movie. Regardless, the idea with either of them seems to be Earth-2 Superman one way or another.

    _________

    I'm honestly thinking Clark's dead going forward (likely Lois too), and Kara will have to big sister raise Jon. Let him be a preteen Superboy essentially in the background of her movies. Then maybe work in a take on Yong Justice or Teen Titans that gets us other young heroes to come up alongside him similar to what Marvel is about to do with Young Avengers. Either that or say he got Hogwarts away to the future after his parents died, and leave Kara to do her own thing till you potentially do a Supergirl/Legion movie and they find out about each other.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    WB really does not have a clue about how to do movies that do their characters justice. One would think they would look at Disney/Marvel and see how that's been successful and adapt that to their universe, but no...they seem intent on changing the characters as much as possible to make them nearly unrecognizable even in costume.

  5. #20
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I don't have them on hand, but I distinctly remember that Bleeding Cool (who everyone has to admit by now was totally on the money about everything with 5G) saying that DC and WB basically called for 5G because of it's multimedia applications.
    Think I’ll go reread their 5G posts because I don’t remember seeing that. If you’re right that helps 5G “click” into place for me, as well as explain the continued Jon push.
    I imagine that it's possible Adam fights Jon when he's Superman, and that effectively allows for both parties to come out looking reasonably well. The Rock gets his fairly clear win, but it's against a 17 year old so the audience still goes "well give him a few years-- I mean, did you see how well he held up at JUST 17". Rather than Adam vs Clark which has basically no wiggle room for such ambiguity.
    I don’t think the Rock would accept Supergirl. He’d want Superman. Adam beating the hell out of a teenage girl isn’t as “cool” as him kicking Superman’s ass. More likely I think they’ll just drop the idea entirely. Maybe they’d use Jon for that and it could work for the reasons you specify but is that the best way to introduce a new Superman? Jobbing to Adam? Because I’m not sure if Jon is coming that he’s coming any time soon. I think they’ll want to give Supergirl her space to shine.
    I'm honestly thinking Clark's dead going forward (likely Lois too), and Kara will have to big sister raise Jon. Let him be a preteen Superboy essentially in the background of her movies. Then maybe work in a take on Yong Justice or Teen Titans that gets us other young heroes to come up alongside him similar to what Marvel is about to do with Young Avengers. Either that or say he got Hogwarts away to the future after his parents died, and leave Kara to do her own thing till you potentially do a Supergirl/Legion movie and they find out about each other.
    Yep I think Clark and Lois would be dead as well. Fits with them adapting Pre-Crisis stuff for Jon, now he’s got the dead “Ma and Pa” right as he’s on the cusp of adulthood. Heh maybe they do actually bring Reeves Superman into the DCEU and say he and Kidder Lois were Jon’s parents? Instead of Supergirl being their kid it will be her raising Jon. Ah who knows?
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  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I'm honestly thinking Clark's dead going forward (likely Lois too), and Kara will have to big sister raise Jon. Let him be a preteen Superboy essentially in the background of her movies. Then maybe work in a take on Yong Justice or Teen Titans that gets us other young heroes to come up alongside him similar to what Marvel is about to do with Young Avengers.
    The fact that that's both a genuinely good idea for the most part (still hate the orphan hero trope) and better than what the comics have done with this character for the past couple of years, leads me to believe that it's the furthest thing from what we're actually going to end up getting if WB ever decides to give us Jon on the big screen -___-

    Aside from Shazam, The Suicide Squad, and the first Wonder Woman movie, of these films have a bad habit of taking the best case scenario and fucking it into oblivion.

  7. #22

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    I think DCEU Supergirl will be an amalgamation of Clark+Kara+some Jon, like a reimagined composite character. I think the idea is that Cavill's Superman will be retconned out of existence, so there never was a Superman- not that he is dead or replaced by an old man like Keaton. This will give them a lot of freedom. But seems like a lot of work, when they could just let her Supergirl be from her own earth; Keaton on his; DCEU Batman and Superman just never show up again but still exist on their world. Doing this makes me think they want another JL movie, but they want to keep Aquaman, Shazam, Adam, also apparently TSS but not SS.
    Anyway, I make no secret that I freaking LOVED SM:NWH despite not actually expecting it to be good. Maybe I'll be proven wrong again. But this seems reactionary and desperate in a way No Way Home never came across to me even when I thought it would be a substanceless nostalgia ride.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 01-01-2022 at 09:43 PM.

  8. #23
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Maybe they’d use Jon for that and it could work for the reasons you specify but is that the best way to introduce a new Superman? Jobbing to Adam?
    You may be shocked to hear this, but yeah I think it's actually the best way to introduce Jon as the new Superman. For one, the idea going forward does seem to be that Black Adam is now the most powerful being on the planet regardless of Supergirl. But if/when she dies in Crisis and Jon takes over, they're not going to want to repeat their same issues they had with Clark, and that includes making this Superman "too powerful". So him getting in a fight with Black Adam and doing *just* well enough to get Adam to given him a "not bad kid" before he knocks him out sets him up as the scrappy underdog Superman who has to always prove himself in the face of the legacy of his dad and aunt. You're effectively making Superman Spider-Man while also going "but maaaaybe someday he'll be crazy powerful...just not now".

    Remember originally the idea for 5G was that Jon was weaker than his dad and Kara because of being half kryptonian, but then Zaar also proved that maybe someday when he was older he'd be even more powerful.

    Because I’m not sure if Jon is coming that he’s coming any time soon. I think they’ll want to give Supergirl her space to shine.
    I think his chances for being added sooner than we think go up by the day. From him getting a book and coming out as bi to him being Superman & Lois (in-- lets face it-- two forms (Jon and Jordan)) and very likely getting a TV shown with the Legion, he's well on his way. The embers of 5G still burn pretty bright in all of DC and WB.

    Heh maybe they do actually bring Reeves Superman into the DCEU and say he and Kidder Lois were Jon’s parents? Instead of Supergirl being their kid it will be her raising Jon. Ah who knows?
    I honestly think that's it right there, but I just think they'll start him off at like Stranger Things kid age to milk that Superboy time while Crisis builds and Supergirl establishes herself. I could totally see them using old Reeves and Kidder footage as tapes that Jon watches of his parents. Then down the line maybe they do a Reeves Jor-El hologram to give the kid a proper goodbye and fully say that THIS was the Superman of this world.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    I think DCEU Supergirl will be an amalgamation of Clark+Kara+some Jon, like a reimagined composite character. I think the idea is that Cavill's Superman will be retconned out of existence, so there never was a Superman- not that he is dead or replaced by an old man like Keaton. This will give them a lot of freedom. But seems like a lot of work, when they could just let her Supergirl be from her own earth; Keaton on his; DCEU Batman and Superman just never show up again but still exist on their world. Doing this makes me think they want another JL movie, but they want to keep Aquaman, Shazam, Adam, also apparently TSS but not SS.
    Anyway, I make no secret that I freaking LOVED SM:NWH despite not actually expecting it to be good. Maybe I'll be proven wrong again. But this seems reactionary and desperate in a way No Way Home never came across to me even when I thought it would be a substanceless nostalgia ride.
    That's par for the course with DC though. Universe altering events and retcons until the powers that be get the continuity they want.

    COIE, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Flashpoint, New 52, Rebirth, Infinite Frontier etc. Get rid of everything! But don't throw anything away. We may need to bring it back at a later date if the "plan" doesn't work out.

  10. #25
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Found the 5G article you were talking about Superlad!
    So what about Dan DiDio and 5G? Well, I am told that at the beginning stages of 5G, Dan seemed to be less hands-on and everyone involved was convinced it wasn't going to become another New 52, where Dan had final say on everything (which is how it's been since then). When Dan leaked the unfinished timeline at NYCC, people started to get worried internally, and the last month especially has seen Dan returning to his trademark levels of micromanagement that's caused some to freak out. And that may have been the final straw regarding the charge of 'fostering a poor work environment' which led to his dismissal.

    Because AT&T/Warner Bros are very, very serious about this 5G thing – not just for the comics, but this is also where they see the future of Warner Bros films and TV going as currently-established actors age up.
    Ok yeah I do think we’ll get Jon as the next DCEU Superman after Sasha now.
    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    I think DCEU Supergirl will be an amalgamation of Clark+Kara+some Jon, like a reimagined composite character. I think the idea is that Cavill's Superman will be retconned out of existence, so there never was a Superman- not that he is dead or replaced by an old man like Keaton. This will give them a lot of freedom. But seems like a lot of work, when they could just let her Supergirl be from her own earth; Keaton on his; DCEU Batman and Superman just never show up again but still exist on their world. Doing this makes me think they want another JL movie, but they want to keep Aquaman, Shazam, Adam, also apparently TSS but not SS.
    Anyway, I make no secret that I freaking LOVED SM:NWH despite not actually expecting it to be good. Maybe I'll be proven wrong again. But this seems reactionary and desperate in a way No Way Home never came across to me even when I thought it would be a substanceless nostalgia ride.
    They’re definitely replacing CavillSuperman with SashaSupergirl, but whether that means there’s no Superman at all in the history of the DCEU is too early to say imo.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  11. #26
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I was thinking about how similar this is to the 5G set up myself! Makes sense now why WB was willing to green light it. Wonder if that means Jace is going to become the DCEU Batman to replace Keaton after they’re done with Batgirl? And yeah I do think if we ever see a “white Superman” on the big screen again it will be Jon. Answers the question of why they’re pushing Jon so hard despite the near future projects starring a black Clark and Val. My guess is that once Sasha is done, they’ll introduce Jon as her replacement in the DCEU and he will take over. Clark isn’t being completely abandoned given MAWS, S&L, and I guess technically the Coates project, but they’re definitely seemingly pivoting towards emphasizing the other parts of his world as opposed to The Batman still revolving around Bruce Wayne.

    As for what they’re building up to, apparently it’s CoIE. They’re making an animated trilogy for 2023 to introduce the story to a wider audience, and then when they’re done with this “phase” they’ll probably do a live action version of it as well to end things.
    There was already a live-action Crisis unless TV doesn't count.

    I honestly can't see them thinking that far ahead as far as legacy/mantle changes or to bloody Crisis. Like, right now I think they're focused on selling Supergirl and Batgirl and not trying to push new Batman's and Superman's on-top of that.

    Although this would be a really weird chain of films:

    Supergirl 1 -> Supergirl 2 -> Supergirl 3 -> Superman 1

    Batgirl 1 -> Batgirl 2 -> Batgirl 3 -> Batman

    The Batman 1 -> The Batman 2 -> The Batman 3

    Coates/Abrams Superman 1 -> Coates/Abrams Superm...well, maybe .

    And this is all assuming a lot.

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    This is still WB. I'd say there's almost zero chance this new DCEU develops properly to the point where they actually have long term passing on mantles like the MCU is doing. They're just not competent enough
    Yeah, even if they had some idea of where they want this to go beyond the characters they're now about to push, its not like its going to get there anyway. Super mythos wise this isn't moving past this new Supergirl.

    If the rumors are true this new JL line-up they got is all that's going to happen. And the roller coaster will continue. Unless they just give up after that, outside of yet another Batman self-contained reboot in the interim. They missed the first few waves of the cinematic universe superhero movie craze by being late to the party then forcing a lot of bad fare, they're going to miss this current one for the same latter reason, and then who knows if there will even be another after that.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 01-01-2022 at 10:05 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  13. #28
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    The fact that that's both a genuinely good idea for the most part (still hate the orphan hero trope) and better than what the comics have done with this character for the past couple of years, leads me to believe that it's the furthest thing from what we're actually going to end up getting if WB ever decides to give us Jon on the big screen -___-
    Ever played/seen Last of Us 1 and/or 2? I envision the dynamic to be something like that. Then Last of Us Part 2 is basically Jon becoming Superman after Kara is gone.

    Though, they can also make it so that in this take Superman is fully subordinate to Supergirl/woman like the Supergirl show made it. It works better in this case since Jon would be like 17 by the time he became Superman. From there you could make Kara the "big picture" Super character while Jon is-- for lack of a better term-- "your friendly neighborhood Superman" working as more of a "man of the people". Especially if his powers are reduced. Compared to Kara or his dad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Found the 5G article you were talking about Superlad!

    Ok yeah I do think we’ll get Jon as the next DCEU Superman after Sasha now.
    Yeah, that's the exact one I was thinking about. DiDio seemed to basically have orders for a thing that the big suits were ready to invest multiple billions of dollars into, so it's no wonder they were so ready to chop of his head once he couldn't get the solders in line.

    And by the looks of it, just because guys like Williamson and Snyder said they'll walk doesn't mean some version of 5G isn't about to become a very real thing for basically all of DC across media. Comics seem to be the smallest part of this.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  14. #29
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Ever played/seen Last of Us 1 and/or 2? I envision the dynamic to be something like that. Then Last of Us Part 2 is basically Jon becoming Superman after Kara is gone.

    Though, they can also make it so that in this take Superman is fully subordinate to Supergirl/woman like the Supergirl show made it. It works better in this case since Jon would be like 17 by the time he became Superman. From there you could make Kara the "big picture" Super character while Jon is-- for lack of a better term-- "your friendly neighborhood Superman" working as more of a "man of the people". Especially if his powers are reduced. Compared to Kara or his dad.
    If Sasha Calle's Supergirl really is filling in for Flashpoint Superman, then I guess she could be pretty Joel-esque.

  15. #30
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If Sasha Calle's Supergirl really is filling in for Flashpoint Superman, then I guess she could be pretty Joel-esque.
    That's what I'm thinking, yeah. Jon as her bright, optimistic, and funny Ellie. He reminds her that humanity isn't inherently bad because he's half human, and slowly she comes out of her shell.

    It kind of writes itself after a while.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

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