All of Snyder’s Films Rumored To Be Erased In The Flash; Cavill Out Also

[Korath]

Yuuuuck. I mean, Batfleck and Cavill have been out for years, that's no surprise. But all this "Superman beyond Clark" stuff just pisses me off. The character is not and never has been broken or outdated. It's just that the people running these companies are so stunningly incompetent.

He hasn't had an unmitigated good movie in how many decades ?

And for what its worth, as a kid, the original Donner movie ws so boring I tried to watch it once and didn't even reached the midpoint of the movie. And that was during the 90's, when I was less than ten top. Perhaps it's high time people realized that thge idealized, iconic vision of Superman that they have is as much a part of the problem as the studios themselves.

[Superlad93]

I go back to my second post in this thread.

The issue is, DC doesn't produce good Superman comic books anymore. Really they haven't in many, MANY years outside of some sporadic arcs and Elseworlds here and there.

So because DC can't produce good IPs for WB to utilize in a Superman film, WB keeps rehashing the same stories and characters. Then when those films fail, they blame the character instead of how they're using the character or how poorly WB is handling the character.

Really DC/WB doesn't really understand anything outside of Batman, and even then they manage to screw him up royally from time-to-time. I've just lost all faith in TPTB at DC/WB in the handling of these characters.

Okay so, as a Superman fan (Clark or otherwise) I'll always go up to bat for him, but-- and this will sound crazy-- the character isn't blameless.

No, Clark most certainly isn't a bad character no matter what anyone says, but he is hard to write and grows increasingly harder to write as the years go on and the times change. And I'm talking about Clark in his most basic form, but like I keep getting told whenever it's suggested they change or adjust something about Clark "well, you might as well make another character". Well, they did!

The tastes of both audiences and creators change as time goes on and culture shifts. Yes, as a bunch of people like to point out, times are getting to be a lot like the 30s and 40s when Clark was created, but that doesn't automatically mean Clark himself (again, in his most recognizable form) is just as relevant. The idea that he birthed and stood for? Of course! But Clark himself doesn't actually get a free pass in the minds of fans.

And to writers, being influenced by these times and what they're taking in, Clark in his most recognizable form may be a bit stifling at times. They're trying to hold onto what makes him him while also trying to reflect a far more complex world than he came from. One of those things has to give, and either the world bends to him or he bends. In the case of the latter we find ourselves back with the "well, you might as well make a new character". Once again, they did.

That good will that Spider-Man has? I hope you don't think it comes from his comics being good. No. Spider-Man comics are mediocre at best. They are published out of obligation and the understanding that people will buy them out of habit. The last time a long running Spider-Man comic was worth anything in the 21st century was Ultimate Spider-Man, and that has gone on to be the very backbone that all modern Spider-Man is built on one level or another. But other than that, they're just doing remixes of old 60s and 70s Spider-Man in the movies. The difference is that Spider-Man is just flat out easier to write and relate with for both writers and fans. Sure we as Superman fans don't waste anytime with our "you just don't get what's special" monologs, but if we're largely the only one that *really* get it because he's *so* complex, where does that get us? 2 liked movies ever since the 80s and ready to be replaced by characters that potentially aren't as hard to get?

Literally no one's ever had to go "you don't get why Batman's so great" or "you don't get why Spider-Man is so great" because EVERYONE gets it since it's so easy to get regardless of what there comics are doing. It sucks to admit, but our hubris is what did Clark in.

[Vordan]

Not even RDJ could tell Marvel what to do with anyone outside of Iron Man, and he's bigger than Adam ever will be. That's just not how this stuff works at this level unless they are directly attached to the IP.

Ah but WB plays by different rules. Marvel is run through Feige; nobody else is truly irreplaceable but him, not the directors, not the actors. But WB doesn’t work like that, they’re giving parts of the DCU to directors as fiefdoms. Reeves gets Batman for example and seemingly has control over the character in various formats such as the upcoming Caped Crusader cartoon. Superman however seems more shattered: there’s the CW show, Abrams/Coates reboot Elseworld, the Supergirl movie, MAWS, MBJ’s Val-Zod show, and Bendis’ Legion show with no one vision overseeing all these takes.

Superman seemingly is something that can be broken up with no one person controlling the whole franchise because WB doesn’t trust one person to oversee the character after Snyder failed. So I do believe that the Rock may be able to exert pull after BA if it’s a huge success simply because unlike the MCU which Feige ran as a dictatorship, the DCEU basically is whatever the major players in it, be they actors, directors, or producers, want it to be. If BA is a huge hit and the Flash flops, Zaslov might kick Hamada out, cancel his projects - such as the Abrams movie - and just give Superman to the Rock’s production company to do with as he sees fit. DC is so unstable, lurching from one extreme to the next that this doesn’t feel implausible to me.

As far as I understand, that's still in play especially with the copyright laws coming into question in a few years.

Interesting, wonder how Superman entering the public domain is affecting that?

I think they should just let Kara have Brainiac straight up. That seems to be the idea, and they could always change it so that Brainiac blew up Krypton in the end.

Unless they repeat Snyder’s mistake of having her kill Brainiac then I think you could have Jon still face Brainiac later on down the line. Brainiac as a generational foe of the Superfamily holds a lot of appeal for me.

Taylor is just full of basic bitch ideas, huh?

He’s pointed to the DCAU as what formed the basis for his view of how the DCU works and it shows: everything revolves around Batman just like it does there. He’s boring as hell and I hope he never writes Clark because of it.

I go back to my second post in this thread.

The issue is, DC doesn't produce good Superman comic books anymore. Really they haven't in many, MANY years outside of some sporadic arcs and Elseworlds here and there.

So because DC can't produce good IPs for WB to utilize in a Superman film, WB keeps rehashing the same stories and characters. Then when those films fail, they blame the character instead of how they're using the character or how poorly WB is handling the character.

Really DC/WB doesn't really understand anything outside of Batman, and even then they manage to screw him up royally from time-to-time. I've just lost all faith in TPTB at DC/WB in the handling of these characters.

There have been great stories, it’s just that the people running everything at DC have been Batman fans and thus don’t know about what stories are good and don’t care enough to adapt the stories right. They butchered the Brainiac and Superman vs. The Elite movies with godawful cheap looking animation style that didn’t match the stories art at all. With Batman they usually lovingly attempt to recreate the style and copy the work panel by panel, but with Superman they can’t be bothered.

It’s why I’m excited for MAWS, that at least looks like it’s got people involved who care and are excited.

[Superlad93]

Unless they repeat Snyder’s mistake of having her kill Brainiac then I think you could have Jon still face Brainiac later on down the line. Brainiac as a generational foe of the Superfamily holds a lot of appeal for me.

After the fight with Kara I'd bet good money that Brainiac becomes a JLA threat much the same way he did in the DCAU. Unlike a comic there's such a limited amount of space that when bad guys like that come back it's mainly for crossover movies or team movies. I'd rather see Jon build out his own set of villains to fight.

For example, why fight Brainiac when Superman Secondus is fated to fight Solaris aka cooler Brainiac?

He’s pointed to the DCAU as what formed the basis for his view of how the DCU works and it shows: everything revolves around Batman just like it does there. He’s boring as hell and I hope he never writes Clark because of it.

I'd give up literally all the good will and press Taylor has built up for Jon as both a teen and Superman if it meant Fraction getting to do his 5G Superman with Jon. There's a universe out there were things are just...better.

[adrikito]

Looks like despite rumors of Cavill being in The Flash movie, that film will instead be erasing him from continuity instead.

Multiple insiders are backing up what one leaker who has a proven track record with MCU leaks and leaked the plot of NWH a long time in advance has said:


Link to Tweet

Looks like Cavill screwed himself out of a job by refusing to do the Shazam cameo.

After FLASHPOINT I am not surprised about it..

I feel bad for him and even more for Affleck..

DAMN. WB ruined me any chance to see Darkseid.. These Idiots Anyway. Fortunately since Batman&Superman I only saw Aquaman and Joker.. Few of my money was wasted in them.

[Vordan]

snip

Clark’s “pop culture” image unfortunately sucks and may not be something he can ever escape. Counter argument though: if they had done a Superman movie in the vein of Aquaman, a big dumb popcorn flick where he fought Brainiac or Metallo or someone other than the two Superman villains we keep seeing again and again, then I think a Superman film could’ve done just fine. Hell MoS still made $600 million and I don’t think it was totally impossible to have built a good sequel from what was set up there. Snyder just dropped the ball in every way. Smallville was huge, Superman Returns made more money than Batman Begins, S&L seems to have been a success so far, what killed Superman was WB pretty much abandoned him for a prolonged period of time. No solo cartoons, multiple failed Superman projects (I would’ve loved to have seen that Burton Superman film as insane as it seemed) because of idiotic edicts from the execs, Factor 5’s promising Superman game getting killed by the Great Recession, I think the character’s current state is as much the fault of WB as it is problems baked into his character.

After the fight with Kara I'd bet good money that Brainiac becomes a JLA threat much the same way he did in the DCAU. Unlike a comic there's such a limited amount of space that when bad guys like that come back it's mainly for crossover movies or team movies. I'd rather see Jon build out his own set of villains to fight.

For example, why fight Brainiac when Superman Secondus is fated to fight Solaris aka cooler Brainiac?

If he got to fight Solaris hell yeah, I’ll take that over Brainiac. But deep in your heart you know Solaris is simply too cool for WB to ever put to film lol. Also that means we’re reliant on Taylor to build up Jon’s Rogues which… is a huge gamble to put it mildly. Using Wildstorm characters for Jon like Bendix is great, but Taylor’s villains are typically shallow, either cartoonishly evil caricatures or wholesome cinnamon rolls who aren’t really evil at all aka Harley Quinn/Poison Ivy.

Utterly hate giving up Brainiac to the JL although that’s kind of a lost cause at this point give Injustice 2 and SS:KTJL I suppose.

I'd give up literally all the good will and press Taylor has built up for Jon as both a teen and Superman if it meant Fraction getting to do his 5G Superman with Jon. There's a universe out there were things are just...better.

No guarantee Fraction wouldn’t have been driven away by Didio’s meddling like so many other creators were, but he would’ve given us something amazing with Jon while Taylor rarely rises above ok. Greatest fear is Taylor will Byrne Jon, giving him a foundation that’s a sales success but is garbage in the long run.

[Superfan90]

Good riddance I'd say. The snyder cultists are just annoying now. I'm sad to see Cavill go but I am glad Snyder's toxicity is finally erased from Superman.

[manwhohaseverything]

Literally no one's ever had to go "you don't get why Batman's so great" or "you don't get why Spider-Man is so great" because EVERYONE gets it since it's so easy to get regardless of what there comics are doing. It sucks to admit, but our hubris is what did Clark in.

This is what snyder fans,superman fans have in common.the Same arguments i mean.."you don't get it.It's too complex" .I am glad superman fans can recognise the problem.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think I'll take all this with a grain of salt. Expanding the DCEU to more Multiverse-centric storytelling in which franchises can co-exist without having to make sure their individual continuity jibes with everyone else's is what I see happening.

But telling fans of older movies that those none of them ever happened now doesn't strike me as a particularly smart strategy.

[The World]

I bet you dollars to doughnuts they'll ransack the Golden and Silver Age for ideas because they know those era's a treasure troves for good ideas.

[Doctor Know]

Okay so, as a Superman fan (Clark or otherwise) I'll always go up to bat for him, but-- and this will sound crazy-- the character isn't blameless.

No, Clark most certainly isn't a bad character no matter what anyone says, but he is hard to write and grows increasingly harder to write as the years go on and the times change. And I'm talking about Clark in his most basic form, but like I keep getting told whenever it's suggested they change or adjust something about Clark "well, you might as well make another character". Well, they did!

The tastes of both audiences and creators change as time goes on and culture shifts. Yes, as a bunch of people like to point out, times are getting to be a lot like the 30s and 40s when Clark was created, but that doesn't automatically mean Clark himself (again, in his most recognizable form) is just as relevant. The idea that he birthed and stood for? Of course! But Clark himself doesn't actually get a free pass in the minds of fans.

And to writers, being influenced by these times and what they're taking in, Clark in his most recognizable form may be a bit stifling at times. They're trying to hold onto what makes him him while also trying to reflect a far more complex world than he came from. One of those things has to give, and either the world bends to him or he bends. In the case of the latter we find ourselves back with the "well, you might as well make a new character". Once again, they did.

That good will that Spider-Man? I hope you don't think it comes from his comics being good. No. Spider-Man comics are mediocre at best. They are published out of obligation and they understanding that people will buy them out of habit. The last time a long running Spider-Man comic was worth anything in the 21st century was Ultimate Spider-Man, and that has gone on to be the very backbone that all modern Spider-Man is built on one level or another. But other than that, they're just doing remixes of old 60s and 70s Spider-Man in the movies. The difference is that Spider-Man is just flat out easier to write and relate with for both writers and fans. Sure we as Superman fans don't waste anytime with our "you just don't get what's special" monologs, but if we're largely the only one that *really* get it because he's *so* complex, where does that get us? 2 liked movies ever since the 80s and ready to be replaced by characters that potentially aren't hard to get?

Literally no one's ever had to go "you don't get why Batman's so great" or "you don't get why Spider-Man is so great" because EVERYONE gets it since it's so easy to get regardless of what there comics are doing. It sucks to admit, but our hubris is what did Clark in.

This is what snyder fans,superman fans have in common.the Same arguments i mean.."you don't get it.It's too complex" .I am glad superman fans can recognise the problem.

You know where else I have noticed this problem? The Star Trek IP. For those who are unaware, the Star Trek IP has been rebooted, cancelled and been hurting for funding for new projects over the past decade. JJ Abrams, his production company Bad Robot and acolytes Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci came in and did their damndest to turn Star Trek in Star Wars. Because they just didn't get Trek and were trying to make the general audience care about the property. The first film worked out pretty well, but creatively. They ran out of steam after that. Of the 3 reboot films, all of them are borrowing heavily from Wrath of Khan. The most popular and recognized as the best Trek film.

Star Trek is about the human adventure in space. Yet the powers that be at ViacomCBS and the people they hire to manage the franchise, can't see past how much money Star Wars makes and wanting Trek to replicate that success. So they try to make Trek fit the Star Wars mold. You end up with 3 (4 if you include Nemesis) films in a row all telling the same story. Bad guy wants revenge against the crew of the Enterprise. With a series of diminishing financial returns. The Trek movies have been cancelled since 2016. With no movement to bring them back. Trek on TV has faced similar issues. Funding for the projects, distributing (Amazon, Netflix, Paramount+, Pluto TV), low viewership/engagement.



Batman and Spider-Man have universal appeal because of their core stories are about men who are costumed vigilantes. They both have great rogues galleries and each adventure is like an opera. There are multiple acts, problems for the character to face (Peter mainly personal, Bruce mainly detective problems) and a big punchy finale.


What is the audience expectation for Superman?

Be the Reeve/Donner Superman that everyone has rose colored nostalgia for? Even though his story wrapped with Superman II. Without him getting the girl, inspiring anyone, or leaving a blue print of where to go next.

Be the Sndyer/Cavil Superman that has pop culture seemingly hates? Even though this one brought more financial success to the brand and increased his exposure to a wider audience. Snyder Supes inspired people in each of the 3 films he was in. He gets no credit for it. He smiled a lot in his first film. Gets no credit for it. Always has a big save moment, but it's never good enough.

Be the current comic Supermen?
- Papa Supes is an amalgamation of several different incarnations and continuities. Still talking about the idea of being hopeful and inspirational, while never actually do it. I defy anyone to list the people Superman has inspired or ways he's made the world a better place. List the dates too. You'll be shocked how few and far between they are.

- Jon Supes is an attention gimmick. He started out a gimmick when Convergence revealed the post-Crisis Supes and Lois were returning. Even though none of post-Crisis Supes' final stories were good or anything to celebrate the return of. Jon had success as the Superson with Damian Robin. Then he was aged up to teenagehood and given his own Legion in the future. Then brought back to the present and made bi-sexual. What wacky thing will they do next to bring attention to Jon? I wonder?


The soon to be Coates/Abrams Superman? I knew this was coming eventually. Marvel won an Oscar for their Black Panther movie. Sony won an Oscar for their black Spider-Man movie (Into The Spider-Verse). WB/DC wants an Oscar for their black Superman movie. Black Clark Kent in a period piece movie that no doubt will tackle the racism and segregation of the time, for it's story. Black man can't be your savior? I can just see the film posturing that question. I expect WB/DC will get what they wanted.



To answer the question above. What I think the audience wants from Superman is a grand adventure. The comics I grew up with always had Superman going places, teaming up with other characters and doing things. While the innocuous, day in the life at the Daily Planet and crew bores people and doesn't inspire intrigue. Looking at the reception to ZS JL. People want to see Clark put the hurt on Darkseid. To get to Darkseid, Clark is going to have to get through Granny Goodness and her Furies. But before he does any of that, Clark should defend Earth from Brainiac first. Pop culture loves Brainiac. Unlike Ultron, who had no staying power past his 2015 movie. People have been clamoring for Brainiac since 2013. Sony listened to it's fans and Spider-Man No Way Home is now their biggest movie of all time. WB/DC tunes it's fans out and you see the results.

[Superlad93]

To answer the question above, what I think the audience wants from Superman is a grand adventure. The comics I grew up with always had Superman going places, teaming up with other characters and doing things. While the innocuous, day in the life at the Daily Planet and crew bores people and doesn't inspire intrigue. Looking at the reception to ZS JL. People want to see Clark put the hurt on Darkseid. To get to Darkseid, Clark is going to have to get through Granny Goodness and her Furies. But before he does any of that, Clark should defend Earth from Brainiac first. Pop culture loves Brainiac. Unlike Ultron, who had no staying power past his 2015 movie. People have been clamoring for Brainiac since 2013. Sony listened to it's fans and Spider-Man No Way Home is now their biggest movie of all time. WB/DC tunes it's fans out and you see the results.

These aren't fixes to Clark's problem but rather just general things that you and some other fans want. I remember when the problem and the thing that fans wanted was for Superman to punch someone, or for WB and DC to stop with the nostalgia around him. They did that. He PUNCHED ALL THE THINGS, ran far, far away from nostalgia. And while the intrigue made money, it didn't make him popular. The biggest take away ended up being "this isn't the Clark I know". Well not **** it's not fanboy! You literally asked for the NOT the Clark you've had in the past. So you simultaneously want him to be different but also the same? You sound like a crazy person, hypothetical fanboy! And it sure does sound like till they film the SPECIFIC movie in your collective heads there's no winning. But clearly that's dumb.

Sony and Marvel don't actually "listen to the fans" in the sense that they allow them to dictate what they do. Spider-Man just has so much good will and inherent popularity that they can do what they want like make him a mini Iron Man and also do a fan service movie, and have each movie break records and be more well received than the last.

"Listening to fans" is a vague armchair quarterback term that fans use that ultimately doesn't mean anything. The fact still remains that Clark is historically a harder sell than Bruce or Peter. If that's because the times changed or poor handling is the chicken or the egg. But it's crazy to keep playing this yoyo game of nostalgia Clark vs trying something new Clark.

DC and WB in general have a problem with simultaneously being too vague and yet too frozen amber with their IPs. And both the fans and the suits alike LOVE to make these movies and comics about "gods who lift up our mortal world", but it's the movies about a kid from Queens who does the right thing that regularly beats the **** out of them.

DC and WB are likely just sick of being the "elder statesmen" comics, movies, and TV. And that vibe will persist because Clark (and Bruce regardless of how he can sell) has cultivated that image over these 80+ years. It may be time to give these guys a rest for a bit so that any Superman movie we go into isn't bludgeoned over the head with a flurry of preconceptions that are inherently linked to Clark?

[Doctor Know]

These aren't fixes to Clark's problem but rather just general things that you and some other fans want. I remember when the problem and the thing that fans wanted was for Superman to punch someone, or for WB and DC to stop with the nostalgia around him. They did that. He PUNCHED ALL THE THINGS, ran far, far away from nostalgia. And while the intrigue made money, it didn't make him popular. The biggest take away ended up being "this isn't the Clark I know". Well not **** it's not fanboy! You literally asked for the NOT the Clark you've had in the past. So you simultaneously want him to be different but also the same? You sound like a crazy person, hypothetical fanboy! And it sure does sound like till they film the SPECIFIC movie in your collective heads there's no winning. But clearly that's dumb.

Clark's problem is he doesn't have a direction/mission to accomplish.

I suspect WB wants Superman to be insulated from any media criticism. Hence the black Clark and the Latina Supergirl set to replace Cavil. We'll have to wait in see if they put any ideas behind their depictions in future movies. WB/DC want Superman to MEAN something. They've just never been clear on what that something is. Repeating "hope" ad infinitum doesn't get it done. Superman fighting Darkseid and Brainiac would inspire intrigue and bring the crowds.

A series of larger than life adventures, terrifying villains and a great supporting cast (like early seasons of CW Flash) would be the way to go. Superman has the stories, the rogues and the gravitas for it. What he doesn't have is a company who believe in him.

Sony and Marvel don't actually "listen to the fans" in the sense that they allow them to dictate what they do. Spider-Man just has so much good will and inherent popularity that they can do what they want like make him a mini Iron Man and also do a fan service movie, and have each movie break records and be more well received than the last.

"Listening to fans" is a vague armchair quarterback term that fans use that ultimately doesn't mean anything. The fact still remains that Clark is historically a harder sell than Bruce or Peter. If that's because the times changed or poor handling is the chicken or the egg. But it's crazy to keep playing this yoyo game of nostalgia Clark vs trying something new Clark.

DC and WB in general have a problem with simultaneously being too vague and yet too frozen amber with their IPs. And both the fans and the suits alike LOVE to make these movies and comics about "gods who lift up our mortal world", but it's the movies about a kid from Queens who does the right thing that regularly beats the **** out of them.

DC and WB are likely just sick of being the "elder statesmen" comics, movies, and TV. And that vibe will persist because Clark (and Bruce regardless of how he can sell) has cultivated that image over these 80+ years. It may be time to give these guys a rest for a bit so that any Superman movie we go into isn't bludgeoned over the head with a flurry of preconceptions that are inherently linked to Clark?

Marvel doesn't listen to the fans, but Sony likely does. Sony learning their lesson from TASM 2 fiasco. People had been clamoring for a live action Spider-Verse film since 2018 with Into the Spider-Verse. Sony made the call to bring back Tobey and Andrew for their 3rd MCU outing. With Doctor Strange on loan from Disney/Marvel.

Another instance of listening to the fans was removing the Iron Man Jr aspect from MCU Spider-Man. The worst part of the last Spider-Man film for most people was them continuously shoe-horning in Iron Man references, despite the character dying in Endgame. The director Jon Watts said they didn't really have a plan for where to take Spidey after his identity was revealed in 2019's Far From Home. A Sinister Six from across the multiverse vs 3 Spider-Men and a massive reset button at the end is a pretty out there idea. All to get Spider-Man away from Iron Man and the Avengers. He's just a broke guy from Queens, who is a costumed vigilante.

Not to dissimilar from the Pattison Batman, who is said to be a a year two crimefighter. Early days and back to basics.

[Superlad93]

Clark's problem is he doesn't have a direction/mission to accomplish.

That is the general vagueness and reliance on a now in built iconography.

And now Clark is freakin stuck there because once anyone tries to add anything they yell about how that's not Clark. So, yeah, Jon's the one who creates the United Planets and is the Superman far more interested in social issues because Clark would be breaching on some foolish made up "prime directive" BS that they perpetuated with Clark that was more so in place to make sure the world around Clark didn't actually progress. That means Kara can better explore the "fresh off the boat" immigrant metaphor that they like to only dip Clark's toe into here and there because he has to still remain pure Americana.

Clark's problem is decades of complacency perpetuated by fans and creators alike, and now we're seeing the results of that. But hey, congratulations on Clark still being "iconic" for all the good that's done him in the last 30 years.

Another instance of listening to the fans was removing the Iron Man Jr aspect from MCU Spider-Man. The worst part of the last Spider-Man film for most people was them continuously shoe-horning in Iron Man references, despite the character dying in Endgame. The director Jon Watts said they didn't really have a plan for where to take Spidey after his identity was revealed in 2019's Far From Home. A Sinister Six from across the multiverse vs 3 Spider-Men and a massive reset button at the end is a pretty out their idea. All to get Spider-Man away from Iron Man and the Avengers. He's just a broke guy from Queens, who is a costumed vigilante.

That's not "listening to fans" that's having their cake and eating it too. They'd have done a live action Spider-Verse eventually, and they successfully used Iron Man to soft rehab Peter and make him a tangible part of the MCU after the Amazing Spider-Man. Once that soft rehab was done they moved on from it. They got from it what they ended and left it not one second before they wanted to. The trick is making it seem like fans had any real say beyond showing up to the movies which they always did. Allows fans to lean back in smug "ha! take that big studio wig" satisfaction while said studio chuckles, rolls their eyes, and goes back to counting their money. The very most fans contributed was the fact that Holland will now make more movies because he himself was under the impression that this was his last. They'd have ended things with a wink at what fans wanted.

I bet once they eventually put Miles in live action fans will pat themselves on the back as if Spider-Verse isn't easily one of the most universally beloved superhero movies ever and Sony didn't just sell you a $60 glorified DLC bundle of a game off just the strength of Miles being Spider-Man.

[manwhohaseverything]

These aren't fixes to Clark's problem but rather just general things that you and some other fans want. I remember when the problem and the thing that fans wanted was for Superman to punch someone, or for WB and DC to stop with the nostalgia around him. They did that. He PUNCHED ALL THE THINGS, ran far, far away from nostalgia. And while the intrigue made money, it didn't make him popular. The biggest take away ended up being "this isn't the Clark I know". Well not **** it's not fanboy! You literally asked for the NOT the Clark you've had in the past. So you simultaneously want him to be different but also the same? You sound like a crazy person, hypothetical fanboy! And it sure does sound like till they film the SPECIFIC movie in your collective heads there's no winning. But clearly that's dumb.

That's a problem with comic industry and story telling as a whole. Regurgitation of old things with a different coat of new superficial paint and change back to the older paint.I would argue even spiderman suffers from it.It's just spidey still has an appeal, selling point and an audience.And i am with you on the supes/bats being gods and savior elder statesmen thing.