Bobby Drake: Iceman Appreciation 2022

[PolarIceFire]

If Bobby is going to be in X-Men Red, as it seems most of us fans are hoping, maybe he'll meet someone new on Arakko. But with him needing to make up for lost time, I wouldn't mind if he just stayed single and played the field, either. It might be a good idea if he gets to know himself better first, before entering into any serious, long-term partnership.

And as luck would have it, an adorable, ice-free, gym bunny Bobby, just made the rounds recently.

Hulkling & Wiccan Infinity Comic #1, Nov. '21

[PolarIceFire]

But also, I get that they've done next to nothing with Bobby and Christian, and that's annoying as hell, but funny thing is, I've been shipping them for years, long before Christian was ever brought back, because fun story:

I'm prone to support Iceman and Christian as a fan of the Frost. Neither had any development or much panel time since being together. I think they could be a very interesting couple.

Why do you think their characters complement each other? What are some of the more compelling aspects of their shared dynamic? How could they become an "interesting couple" that would get and keep fans engaged?

Because I'm not buying any of the selling points illustrated here:



Where Christian comes across as so insipidly pretentious, he's not even likable.

[NewMutant]

Why do you think their characters complement each other? What are some of the more compelling aspects of their shared dynamic? How could they become an "interesting couple" that would get and keep fans engaged?

Because I'm not buying any of the selling points illustrated here:



Where Christian comes across as so insipidly pretentious, he's not even likable.

Read Emma Frost solo and Iceman solo if you want a bit more characterization. Which is exactly my point. Neither of these characters have been used. Or even interacted much. So it like saying its bad when we haven't seen it yet.

[Dermie]

If Bobby is going to be in X-Men Red, as it seems most of us fans are hoping, maybe he'll meet someone new on Arakko. But with him needing to make up for lost time, I wouldn't mind if he just stayed single and played the field, either. It might be a good idea if he gets to know himself better first, before entering into any serious, long-term partnership.

To be honest, that seems to be where he is at anyway. Bobby and Christian's relationship seems to be pretty casual, really. They certainly aren't exclusive, as far as we know. We have seen Bobby kissing at least one other guy on-panel during MARAUDERS and back near the start of the series Kate Pryde had made some quippy comment to Bobby implying he'd been enjoying a rather active sex life recently. We don't know if Christian has been seeing anyone else or not, but there have been a number of scenes where he and Shinobi Shaw seems to be socializing a fair bit.

So Bobby/Christian are either a fairly casual, non-exclusive couple, or they are friends-with-benefits. But I definitely wouldn't call them a serious partnership yet. Bobby even referred to himself as 'single' in that HULKLING & WICCAN Infinity Comic...which might have just meant "not married" (since both of the other couples present were married), or it might be supporting evidence to him and Christian being just friends-with-benefits.

[johnnysv75]

To be honest, that seems to be where he is at anyway. Bobby and Christian's relationship seems to be pretty casual, really. They certainly aren't exclusive, as far as we know. We have seen Bobby kissing at least one other guy on-panel during MARAUDERS and back near the start of the series Kate Pryde had made some quippy comment to Bobby implying he'd been enjoying a rather active sex life recently. We don't know if Christian has been seeing anyone else or not, but there have been a number of scenes where he and Shinobi Shaw seems to be socializing a fair bit.

So Bobby/Christian are either a fairly casual, non-exclusive couple, or they are friends-with-benefits. But I definitely wouldn't call them a serious partnership yet. Bobby even referred to himself as 'single' in that HULKLING & WICCAN Infinity Comic...which might have just meant "not married" (since both of the other couples present were married), or it might be supporting evidence to him and Christian being just friends-with-benefits.

Yes, for now I like them better as friends-with-benefit. (But I would have liked to have seen Bobby go on dates, have fun, not just a comment from Kate.) We need to see more of them both to buy them as a couple, otherwise it is more like: ”Oh, these two characters are gay, they must be a couple.”

I miss Sina Grace’s Iceman.

[Icefanatic]

-snip-

Because Bobby wasn't just reacting to what he'd done under the Seed's influence, he was reacting to the stark, physical reminder that he COULD do those things, that it was even within his capabilities. Also I've never been sure how much Parker's two First Class series are considered canon, but Liu was definitely referring back to them with that arc. For those who haven't read, First Class was a retroactive series about the 05 written in the early 2000s, set between the time their original run in the 60s ended and when the Giant Size lineup restarted the X-Men book in the 70s. Anyway, in the first of those two series, Bobby is kidnapped by a group of Vanir, rivals to the Norse Aesir who use his ice powers to fuel a spell to revive Ymir, the father of all frost giants and one of the most deadly foes of the Norse gods. Thor teams up with the X-Men to defeat him and rescue Bobby....and at the end of it, he warns Bobby to be careful of his power and that he'll be watching him because of his potential to grow into another Ymir himself. And then in Parker's followup First Class series, the 05 reality hop via exposure to the Nexus of Realities, and see a lot of their possible futures, including Jean's as Dark Phoenix. They ALSO see this future.....

With this being a huge part of what Liu was referencing with her arc and why she made Thor a fairly big part of it. Bobby's own 'dark future' has always been more connected to Norse mythology as opposed to mythologies about the Phoenix. Notably, when he was part of X-Factor with the 05, he was also kidnapped by Loki, who wanted to use his powers to create an army of frost giants capable of destroying the Norse gods. Anyway.

Point is, historically, despite his desire to be respected and appreciated, Bobby's invested a lot of time and effort in not giving people a reason to turn their thoughts and attention to just how dangerous and deadly a power like his can be when its not just being used to create simple slides, pretty sculptures and silly pranks.
-snip-

I referenced some of that Norse connection in a reply to one of your posts in the 'unpopular/controversial' thread. We got a bit more of that in A + X #7, the Thor and Iceman team-up issue.

The Casket of Ancient Winters was an Asgardian artifact which first appeared in Thor #346(May, 1984). It was said to contain the Fimbulwinter of Ymir, also described as the 'ancient power of Ymir'. In actuality it was a conduit to Ymir's power in ancient times. In A + X #7 Ymir has constructed a new 'Casket of Future Winters'.







Bobby is able to add it's power to his own. There is no explanation given as to whose future Fimbulwinter the new 'Casket of Future Winters' connects to, or why Iceman can channel that power as easily as his own, but if you read the 'Frozen' arc in Astonishing X-Men you get a pretty clear answer for both, and see that this story functions as something of a set up for that.

[Icefanatic]

I love Hellion, but he is way too young for Bobby and that would squick me, lol.

But also, I get that they've done next to nothing with Bobby and Christian, and that's annoying as hell, but funny thing is, I've been shipping them for years, long before Christian was ever brought back, because fun story:

So other long time readers might remember this, but there was a time in the 90s, where for a very, VERY brief moment, the powers that be contemplated a Bobby/Emma pairing. It was right after Emma hijacked his body after her Hellions died, and this led to Bobby and Emma interacting in various Gen-X stories as he tried to get her help with his powers and she taunted him about not pushing his potential.....but there was like, a weird kinda flirtation in a few issues as the Gen-X writer toyed with the idea of teasing that Emma was interested in Bobby because of how well she knew him after being in his mind, like she was able to see things in him that nobody else did, and some people at Marvel briefly thought there might be some potential in Emma being with someone as unconventional as Bobby. This never went anywhere, obviously....at least not in 616. Like, there was an issue were it was implied that Emma was going to ask Bobby to be her date when chaperoning Gen-X's prom, but that was about it. After that, the plotline was dropped.

But again, that's in 616.

Around the same time as this was being toyed with, Marvel's 2099 line was pretty successful. Enough so that its X-Men 2099 comic launched a spinoff called X-Nation. It only ran for six issues, and was supposed to be the Gen-X to the 2099 X-Men, with future X-Men member Shakti Haddad, aka Cerebra, gathering together various young mutants for their protection and to train them.

One of these young mutants created for this spinoff comic was a young blonde girl codenamed Winter. Her look was very clearly inspired by Emma Frost, though she was drawn in a Bachalo-esque style....

But also of extreme significance is that Winter had ice powers....and her real name was December Frost.

Anyway, point is that there was a brief window in time where Bobby/Emma almost happened, but never did....BUT it was on the brain of several writers right at the time when they needed new teen characters for their 2099 line, and so somebody pitched a future descendant of Bobby and Emma, with his powers and her look/attitude and lineage.

I've always been partial to the 2099 line, and the X-Nation book in particular while short-lived had some great characters.....and its always been really funny to me that for completely unrelated reasons to the Bobby/Emma teased romance.....decades later, Bobby was written coming out, and ultimately paired up with Emma's brother Christian.

And given the focus on the 2099 line lately in the form of 2099 X-Men villain Brimstone Love appearing in the upcoming Marauders Annual and the 2099 books being brought up and mentioned by a lot of writers and editors as being old faves of theirs.....

Idk, its really interesting and funny to me that long-established minor character December Frost STILL WORKS as Bobby's future descendant.....just with it 'turning out' to be that she's descended from Bobby and CHRISTIAN Frost, with them perhaps asking one of his sisters to be their egg donor when having a kid via in vitro/surrogacy.

*Shrugs* I've long said that the Summers shouldn't get to hog all the future and time traveling descendants, and its past time for Bobby to have a wtf moment of meeting some future kid or descendant, and December Frost already exists and has for over two decades. It'd actually be especially funny if in a story the X-Nation kids popped up in the present for a brief visit NOW, precisely because of the fact that Bobby and Christian have barely even dated much yet and still are in that undefined part of an early relationship.....the perfect time to be thrown a curveball in the form of 'what do you mean you're our great great grand-daughter?? We haven't even been dating a year!'

The Bobby/Emma pairing was largely pushed in the 90's by both Scott Lobdell & Fabian Nicieza, It also made it's way into a What If? issue where Bobby was Emma's lover and a member of the Hellfire Club, he died trying to save her life. It also spawned a wealth of fanfic pairing the two romantically and sexually for at least a decade.

Writer Jay Faerber, who was fired from his popular run on Generation X, along with the writers of X-Force and X-Man, to hand the book over to Warren Ellis & Brian Wood as part of the new Counter-X line, had sought to revisit the pairing starting with Generation X #57, the infamous date night issue with Bobbby/Emma. Faerber published his planned outline for near-future issues on his blog which would have seen him kill off Sean Cassidy and bring in Bobby as a new co-headmaster for the school with Emma, setting up a "romantic paring for the two that would be modeled on the dynamic between Maddie and David from the 1980s TV series Moonlighting(played by Bruce Willis and Cybil Shepard)".

[witchboy]

The Bobby/Emma pairing was largely pushed in the 90's by both Scott Lobdell & Fabian Nicieza, It also made it's way into a What If? issue where Bobby was Emma's lover and a member of the Hellfire Club, he died trying to save her life. It also spawned a wealth of fanfic pairing the two romantically and sexually for at least a decade.

Writer Jay Faerber, who was fired from his popular run on Generation X, along with the writers of X-Force and X-Man, to hand the book over to Warren Ellis & Brian Wood as part of the new Counter-X line, had sought to revisit the pairing starting with Generation X #57, the infamous date night issue with Bobbby/Emma. Faerber published his planned outline for near-future issues on his blog which would have seen him kill off Sean Cassidy and bring in Bobby as a new co-headmaster for the school with Emma, setting up a "romantic paring for the two that would be modeled on the dynamic between Maddie and David from the 1980s TV series Moonlighting(played by Bruce Willis and Cybil Shepard)".

That's really interesting! Bobby in Generation X with a David/Maddie dynamic with Emma sounds hilarious.
Scott Lobdell has said he was writing Bobby as a closeted gay, so I don't think he was pushing Emma and Bobby as a couple. It was only editorial that stopped him from having Bobby come out in the 90s.

[Krakoa]

No mention of Bobby in the X-Men Red announcement, sadly.

[AJpyro]

Dont count him out yet. He may just be the surprise sixth ranger.

[Icefanatic]

That's really interesting! Bobby in Generation X with a David/Maddie dynamic with Emma sounds hilarious.
Scott Lobdell has said he was writing Bobby as a closeted gay, so I don't think he was pushing Emma and Bobby as a couple. It was only editorial that stopped him from having Bobby come out in the 90s.

That part I bolded part is actually not true. There is a TON of false information online about various creatives claiming to have written Iceman as gay or bi over the decades and pretty much all of it is false. A combination of misinformation and disinformation unknowingly repeated by the masses.

Back on the old CBR forum people were routinely saying that some of the gay jokes made by Scott Lobdell & Fabian Nicieza about Iceman in the comics were indications that the character was gay, and that editorial wouldn't let them out Iceman. I actually posted links to online coverage of fan events where they both said they were just jokes made because they though it was funny that a vocal subset of fans kept insisting that Iceman was secretly gay, that he was straight and they were just having fun with the jokes. That actually ended the 'is Iceman gay debate' at CBR... for about a week, and then things continued as if it was never posted.

In Uncanny X-Men #319, titled 'Untapped Potentia'l, Bobby takes Rogue along on a weekend visit with his family where his father's anti-mutant bigotry is on full display. Scott Lobdell use to routinely draw from real-world things to add relevance to the 'mutant metaphor'. Gene Nation was inspired by Queer Nation. The Legacy Virus was inspired by HIV/AIDS. For that story Scott has stated at fan events and conventions over the years that he drew inspiration for the story from a gay man taking his gay friend home to meet his parents and encountering their bigotry. He was using that to add relevance to the mutant metaphor, not trying to say Bobby or Rogue were gay.

Yet there are a contingent of people who routinely twist that, one on this very forum who posts that Scott Lobdell has said he wrote Iceman as a gay man in that story, which is not true.

For something of the last word on how Scott saw and wrote Iceman, after Bendis outed the 'adult version' of Iceman' a fan tweeted to Lobdell to out one of the straight members of the Titans at DC as gay. Scott replied: "That would be like me making Bunker(who is gay and Hispanic) straight and white. I'm not Bendis."

[Wiccan615]

Scott Lobdell talked about this in an interview on the Flame On podcast and pretty much clears this up, he also talked to me about this on Instagram about a year or 2 ago. Here’s a link to the podcast interview:

https://amp.listennotes.com/podcasts...FvHrzjh_Y/amp/

Basically, yes he wrote Bobby’s story with his parents and Emma as a metaphor for the kinds of things gay people went through. He was specifically drawing from that and used that as a subtext. This was largely prompted by fan letters he got from gay fans asking if Bobby could be gay, since many have been reading him as such since his 80s mini and all of the stuff with Cloud in Defenders. Lobdell only wanted to leave it as a metaphor though and didn’t actually plan on having Bobby come out, that’s where people got it wrong. However, he says that he left a ton of intentional breadcrumbs there that the reading and eventual outting of the character works flawlessly, he may have initially been put off by the Bendis reveal, but I think talking to queer fans may have changed his tune. Liu has said on Reddit that she wrote Bobby with queerness/closetedness in mind, and Carey said that it just made sense to read him that way too, specifically because of the stuff with Cloud.

I personally think that with all of this in mind, the important thing to note is that the “not reaching his potential” plot line and many of the major themes of internal conflict outlined by Lobdell’s claims, specifically were drawn from a queer metaphor being written onto the character. In that sense, queerness has been baked into his personal character arc for a long time, as a large part of the character’s development and themes are drawn from that, even if the intention wasn’t to actually have him be out; which is why so many queer fans always saw themselves in him and why conversations of his sexuality persisted for so many years in lgbt circles. He is very unique in that regard. It’s a very interesting and distinct history of fandom engaging with story and it means a lot to me, someone who used to lurk on the lgbt CBR threads before Bobby was even outted, that they eventually made that reading canon. For the longest time, all queer fans had to go off of was readings and metaphors so to have that history be engaged with is very cool.

We see this over at the DC side with Tim Drake too, Chuck Dixon is a raging homophobe and wrote the bulk of Tim’s continuity but a sizeable group of queer fans saw themselves in him, regardless of intent. Later writers played with the idea and now he is canonically queer too, and that’s largely been celebrated by much of the queer fandom too. Ofc not all fans are gonna feel one specific kind of way but it’s cool for the ones that it means a lot to.

also, sad to not see Bobby in Red yet. If he is relegated to a vote on the x-men lineup, it’s really disappointing and shows that the writers aren’t interested in investing in him this era.

[ZuLuLu]

No mention of Bobby in the X-Men Red announcement, sadly.

If Iceman is not in Red and if Magneto leaves the QC he may end up on Immortal X-Men as Magneto replacement. Orlando stated Iceman is not in Marauders because there are other plans for him. The only other alternative I see is that Duggun call dibs on a character he is writing and Iceman is going to be a part of his possible second X-Men team.

[PolarIceFire]

Besides X-Men Red and more Iceman Infinity comics for Bobby's future, I think there's at least a chance he gets an as yet unannounced regular solo, or even his own team led book.



IceMaster being a riff on Magneto could make more sense now, given Oliveira's Pride retcon.

I hate to get my or anybody else's hopes up, because if wrong, the letdown's really going to be a bummer. But shortly after tweeting about the X-Men Red logos, design artist Tom Muller slyly slid this cryptic teaser out, "The coolest thing?"

https://twitter.com/hellomuller/stat...73313436037129



And I couldn't help but notice that like by Inferno's Valerio Schiti, who I was already wondering the whereabouts of, after all the creative teams were announced. I figured we'd probably lost him, like we did Zeb Wells, which I still haven't gotten over yet. His writing was so my thing.

I also considered Bobby's placement in the official Destiny of X picture, same as Ororo but on the other side, almost like bookends. Or better yet, pillars. Then this X-Men #6 variant by Larraz & Gracia has been regularly popping into my head a lot recently, too:

[PolarIceFire]

Upon further thought, I now believe there's a real good chance the mysterious X-Men Vote, could be directly related to this reveal. I also think there's a possibility it'll be under Duggan's pen, and a companion book to his regular title. There's some sound reason for that, both in story and with a few early, rumored leaks. And fellow Dani Moonstar fans might want to take note, indications are that at least initially, it'll be Asgardian related. This time, again with some current storyline elements, plus a recent X-Men Monday mention by a particular, new editor.