Bobby Drake: Iceman Appreciation 2022

[Havok83]

Hope was created as a messianic figure. Even if forgotten, if she appears she's meant to be the center of attention.
Kwannon is a nice character work, but she's not really in the center of things. She mainly appears as background and was the main character of a brilliants sidebook full of very secondary characters. I WISH Iceman got one of those books though. He was BRILLIANT in OTZ
You're right on point for Cypher, but as I said they needed a big shift in narrative for him to be center stage.

Thats not true. She was not a central figure for years after AvX. She most certainly wasnt when she returned in the ResurrXion era or post Disassembled UXM. Hickman and now Gillen have prepositioned her to be so.

Kwannon was the lead of Fallen Angels and Hellions. She was central to the main plotlines of those books in a way that Iceman has not been to any title this era. At the very least Bobby needs that but he hasnt been used in that capacity

[Nicoclaws]

Thats not true. She was not a central figure for years after AvX. She most certainly wasnt when she returned in the ResurrXion era or post Disassembled UXM. Hickman and now Gillen have prepositioned her to be so.

Kwannon was the lead of Fallen Angels and Hellions. She was central to the main plotlines of those books in a way that Iceman has not been to any title this era. At the very least Bobby needs that but he hasnt been used in that capacity

I don't disagree with you on Psylocke, I'm just arguing she has not been central to the main plot of the xbooks. She definitely was the main char on her satellite books (and arguably the best written character in Excalibur, but that's just poking fun at Howard), and I can see that for Iceman too.

On Hope I disagree, as I said she was central when she appeared. She totally disappeared after AvX, as far as I remember. I didn't read the Gold/etc era of the books except for Red because I read good reviews so I don't know (and don't care much) about the Disassembled era, tbh. Wasn't she important to the plot by killing her father or some shit ? Anyways as per her chararcter archetype she fits a more "important" role.

[Havok83]

I don't disagree with you on Psylocke, I'm just arguing she has not been central to the main plot of the xbooks. She definitely was the main char on her satellite books (and arguably the best written character in Excalibur, but that's just poking fun at Howard), and I can see that for Iceman too.

On Hope I disagree, as I said she was central when she appeared. She totally disappeared after AvX, as far as I remember. I didn't read the Gold/etc era of the books except for Red because I read good reviews so I don't know (and don't care much) about the Disassembled era, tbh. Wasn't she important to the plot by killing her father or some shit ? Anyways as per her chararcter archetype she fits a more "important" role.

I was referring to Kwannon, the current Psylocke, not Betsy, the former Psylocke that is in Excalibur

the fact that you dont recall Hope after AvX proves my point with how irrelevant she became. She was a member of X-Force and later returned as a supporting character in Cable's solo during that Gold era and was used in the Jean Grey book as well. She rejoined the X-men during Age of X-man but she was one of many and wasnt central to that story arc. She didnt become relevant again until Hickman made her so in HOX and its really Gillen thats taken that baton and running with it, solidifying her as one of the lead character in Immortal.

Oh and Hope didnt kill Cable. He was killed by a kid version of himself in Extermination and Hope wasnt used in that story, except to appear at the very end in a splash shot of the funeral. We saw the aftermath of how it affected her in Exterminated and the Xmen Holiday Special

[Nicoclaws]

I was referring to Kwannon, the current Psylocke, not Betsy, the former Psylocke that is in Excalibur

the fact that you dont recall Hope after AvX proves my point with how irrelevant she became. She was a member of X-Force and later returned as a supporting character in Cable's solo during that Gold era and was used in the Jean Grey book as well. She rejoined the X-men during Age of X-man but she was one of many and wasnt central to that story arc. She didnt become relevant again until Hickman made her so in HOX and its really Gillen thats taken that baton and running with it, solidifying her as one of the lead character in Immortal.

Oh and Hope didnt kill Cable. He was killed by a kid version of himself in Extermination and Hope wasnt used in that story, except to appear at the very end in a splash shot of the funeral. We saw the aftermath of how it affected her in Exterminated and the Xmen Holiday Special

I was referring to Kwannon Psylocke too, it was a joke that she was one of the best written characters in Excalibur when she appeared there.

Oh true she appeared in Spurrier's X-force ! It was good ! She was pretty central to the plot there too, although Spurrier managed to give most of his cast something to do !
But you're right, maybe she wasn't central when she appeared in the Gold/Blue/AoXm era. Once again what I read from that era didn't interest me at all XD
I think it's the writer's fault, honestly. If you don't use the character for their background and archetype (warlike hothead with a messiah complex for Hope, badass nature goddess for Storm, or insecure secretly powerful jokester like Iceman), or at least use it to advance their characters, why use them at all ?

Anyway going back to the main topic : What kinda book would be the best for Iceman to take center stage ? What would the premise be ?
I think with his trajectory in Marauders he could have definitely gone to a space warrior book like X-men Red (I wasn't sure of that before reading the last issues of Marauders), but Vecchio kinda made him more grounded in the human world.
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A Pride book, exploring the mundane relationships between humans and mutants could work, but it would be very niche. Too bad because we'd have many characters who would work fine with it (Northstar and his human husband, Prodigy and his... non-mutant ? boyfriend, Escapade, etc.)

[Havok83]

I actually think X-men is a good place for him and Duggan did great by him in the last issue. Once we are done with the crossover shenanigans I think there could be opportunity for him to take lead in a story arc there though

[Krakoa]

I actually think X-men is a good place for him and Duggan did great by him in the last issue. Once we are done with the crossover shenanigans I think there could be opportunity for him to take lead in a story arc there though

My fear is that's all Duggan does with him. His first year on the book had a lot of character statement pieces like this about who a character is, but did little to move the characters besides Synch forward.

[Nicoclaws]

Yeah in a book with Cyclops, Jean, Magik and Synch... I honestly see only Forge as a big surprise mover in that team. Plus Duggan announced he would still be using the old teammates too. That's a bit crowded. But there's hope.

[NewMutant]

Iceman seems to be a through line character; carrying him over from Marauders. Much like Rogue from UA. I enjoy Duggan as a writer. He doesn't have the weight of Claremont, Morrison, or Hickman but he writes a solid series.

[Icefanatic]

Marvel Voices Exclusive NYCC Variant by Luciano Vecchio

[Nicoclaws]

Does anyone got art from X-men 16 ? I just saw one panel with Iceman and Cassara's take on his ice-from looks GOOD.

[JB]

Does anyone got art from X-men 16 ? I just saw one panel with Iceman and Cassara's take on his ice-from looks GOOD.

My apologies, I'm just seeing this! Here you go.

[Nicoclaws]

Thanks ! I love the snowy aspect Cassara is giving. And I don't mind the spikey head for once !

[JB]

Thanks ! I love the snowy aspect Cassara is giving. And I don't mind the spikey head for once !

Same! I'm not usually a fan of his spiky hair but it looking more soft here makes it work.

[Dante Milton]

I really don't like the way Cassara draws Iceman.

[Krakoa]

I really don't like the way Cassara draws Iceman.

Yeah I prefer the mostly smooth Iceman.