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  1. #16
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyO'Brien View Post
    Dr Quinzel being seduced by Ivy not joker would be cool..
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    If we’re changing anything about Quinzel, then I’d rather just see her elect to become Harley Quinn on her own.
    I don't get it. In the cartoon, the comic books, pretty much everything, Quinzel is always seduced by the Joker, is his henchwoman for a period, realizes what a toxic relationship that is, they break up, she hooks up with Ivy. Retconning that in the film seems kind of pointless, like...I don't see why. The only thing that would be worth changing is making it so instead of Joker dumping her, she dumped him, ala the Harley Quinn cartoon. But at this point I'd rather just have her and Ivy meet in a Harley and Ivy movie and fall in love. Then maybe a post-credits scene with Catwoman leading into a Gotham City Sirens movie.


    Something I would retcon is Lex Luthor being Eisenberg, that was a serious miscast. And Leto's Joker. Those have been the only serious miscasts. I'm okay with Ezra's Barry.

    Actual film events worth retconning, I would start with Clark letting his father die. I know a lot of people whine about Superman killing Zod, but while I'm not a fan of how that scene was executed, I think the whole Superman can never ever kill ever not even once is stupid. But letting his daddy die was clearly just the worst. If his dad's gotta die, just make it a heart attack.

    The whole stupid "Martha" line. Just...please, no more.

    The kid in Birds of Prey like, stole the real Cassandra Cain's name or something.

    The Detachable Kid's death in The Suicide Squad. Truly the mightiest man should have a better showing than that.

  2. #17
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    I like Superman being the guy who never kills. But I agree with changing things like Martha!

  3. #18
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    I like Superman being the guy who never kills. But I agree with changing things like Martha!
    His first day, first fight, against an enemy who he couldn't imprison, and who happens to be out to kill people and won't stop. I mean, it works. I'd much rather a hero who tries to never kill if at all possible over will never kill because he'll never be written in an interesting situation like that. He's still pretty heroic I think. Definitely not worth the years of arguing it's gotten over just staring at his father dying.

    Plus Superman II had him kill first.

  4. #19
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    His first day, first fight, against an enemy who he couldn't imprison, and who happens to be out to kill people and won't stop. I mean, it works. I'd much rather a hero who tries to never kill if at all possible over will never kill because he'll never be written in an interesting situation like that. He's still pretty heroic I think. Definitely not worth the years of arguing it's gotten over just staring at his father dying.

    Plus Superman II had him kill first.
    It made sense in the context of the movie (although I don't think it was the only way to play it) but Snyder not getting to properly address the fallout or the effect it had on Superman probably didn't help it's lasting impact.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    His first day, first fight, against an enemy who he couldn't imprison, and who happens to be out to kill people and won't stop. I mean, it works. I'd much rather a hero who tries to never kill if at all possible over will never kill because he'll never be written in an interesting situation like that. He's still pretty heroic I think. Definitely not worth the years of arguing it's gotten over just staring at his father dying.

    Plus Superman II had him kill first.
    Not to mention, Superman killing General Zod is something that has happened in the comics, so the notion that it's not ''faithful'' to the character is patently wrong.

  6. #21
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It made sense in the context of the movie (although I don't think it was the only way to play it) but Snyder not getting to properly address the fallout or the effect it had on Superman probably didn't help it's lasting impact.
    Except that it's not really what people complain about. Yeah, it would have been nice if the fallout was explored, but I get the distinct impression that even if it had it would change nothing, those people would still complain about that. And it was so annoying, because the two sides argued about that so gosh dang much (really trying to watch my language more) that it sucked up all the oxygen in the room that it was impossible for the rest of us who didn't care about it at all to really air our grievances or likes about the film and have it be heard or discussed. I went from indifference to the Zod neck snap to outright praying that every Zod appearance from then on, from film to comics to videogames to everything else would involve Superman breaking Zod's neck. Just a multiverse of Zod getting his neck snapped in half until the people arguing about it would drown in a tsunami of dead Zods.

    And I don't even support the dang Snyderverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Not to mention, Superman killing General Zod is something that has happened in the comics, so the notion that it's not ''faithful'' to the character is patently wrong.
    That too.

    Back on topic, maybe Barry can retcon Rick Flagg dying. They finally did the character right and he's gone too soon.

  7. #22
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Except that it's not really what people complain about. Yeah, it would have been nice if the fallout was explored, but I get the distinct impression that even if it had it would change nothing, those people would still complain about that. And it was so annoying, because the two sides argued about that so gosh dang much (really trying to watch my language more) that it sucked up all the oxygen in the room that it was impossible for the rest of us who didn't care about it at all to really air our grievances or likes about the film and have it be heard or discussed. I went from indifference to the Zod neck snap to outright praying that every Zod appearance from then on, from film to comics to videogames to everything else would involve Superman breaking Zod's neck. Just a multiverse of Zod getting his neck snapped in half until the people arguing about it would drown in a tsunami of dead Zods.

    And I don't even support the dang Snyderverse.
    It probably would have been more palatable to people in the long run if they actually gotten to develop it and show how much it had effected/changed Superman instead of just not really addressing it again at all. It definitely didn't help.

    I'd rather not see Superman snap necks in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Not to mention, Superman killing General Zod is something that has happened in the comics, so the notion that it's not ''faithful'' to the character is patently wrong.
    The comics actually got to play with it more, though, and the emotional impact it had on Superman. But of course by the time it happened Post-Crisis Superman was better established than Cavill's was.

  8. #23
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    Superman only killed Zod because Snyder wanted him to, right?

    Regardless, I agree more people would be receptive to it if the aftermath had been explored. But that requires that Snyder actually make a good Superman

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    From the article, the elimination of God-Batman will be just fine. Batfemale demoted to small player will also be just fine. Get a new Superman. Cut all the focus on personal sex lifes that ruined the Supergirl show. Let everyone do what they want without it being a focal plot point in the movies or shows.
    He asked about the movies, not the tv shows.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLGO 13 View Post
    They want more talking, more feelings, more talking about feelings, see?
    Can't wait!
    I mean, to be fair, we have seen violence a billion times and can rewatch it whenever we want.

  11. #26
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It probably would have been more palatable to people in the long run if they actually gotten to develop it and show how much it had effected/changed Superman instead of just not really addressing it again at all. It definitely didn't help.
    I still doubt it'd have stopped the years long bickering between the pro and anti Snyder MoS "Man of Murder" BS that has plagued this forum ever since.

    I'd rather not see Superman snap necks in general.
    Hey, we all have our vindictive petty wishes to shut some internet people up.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    I mean, to be fair, we have seen violence a billion times and can rewatch it whenever we want.
    I'd like to see heroes be more self-reflective and ask whether violence is always necessary.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    I think we get that too.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    I think we get that too.
    We sometimes do. But does that ever actually change how the heroes are?

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    I'd say yes.
    I mean, specifically, in the season of "The Flash" that I'm currently watching, they are ending all of their conflicts thus far with talking.

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