Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2022

[Frontier]

Yep. I can see issues with that for sure. I heard other complaints include that her dynamic with Shiva and Barbara leans into the problematic trope of evil family of color for child of color that is replaced by white family of choice.

Well, there's no real getting around that because Shiva is problematic one way or another (although David Cain is white).

Both Cass and Steph can relate to their white dads being terrible .

[millernumber1]

Well, there's no real getting around that because Shiva is problematic one way or another (although David Cain is white).

Both Cass and Steph can relate to their white dads being terrible .

Thankfully, no one wants Steph to be closer to Arthur. I do wish the current Batgirls run would talk about what's up with Crystal, since Bendis mentioned she and Steph are in contact again.

[Frontier]

Thankfully, no one wants Steph to be closer to Arthur. I do wish the current Batgirls run would talk about what's up with Crystal, since Bendis mentioned she and Steph are in contact again.

I remember how fast she vanished in the Eternal comic.

[millernumber1]

I remember how fast she vanished in the Eternal comic.

Well, she was only in about 3-4 issues, but they were spaced apart quite a bit. I still remember Tynion telling me his plans for her at the first con I visited - he said that the reference to Steph being raised by two geniuses in the first issue of his Tec was saying both Arthur and Crystal are geniuses, and he was originally going to have a final scene of Crystal becoming Cluemaster 2 in Batman Eternal. I personally think that would have been kinda cool, but I also would have liked to see a return of her Batgirl dynamic - clean of the drugs, working as a nurse, and there for Steph. Classic!

[Frontier]

Well, she was only in about 3-4 issues, but they were spaced apart quite a bit. I still remember Tynion telling me his plans for her at the first con I visited - he said that the reference to Steph being raised by two geniuses in the first issue of his Tec was saying both Arthur and Crystal are geniuses, and he was originally going to have a final scene of Crystal becoming Cluemaster 2 in Batman Eternal. I personally think that would have been kinda cool, but I also would have liked to see a return of her Batgirl dynamic - clean of the drugs, working as a nurse, and there for Steph. Classic!

Yeah, I'm really glad that Cluemaster 2 idea never happened .

[sunofdarkchild]

They have a tendency to just abandon plots with Crystal and just reveal that she got 'better' off-panel. It happened with her drug addiction in the 90s and then with her becoming a villain in Eternal.

[ComicNoobie]

I liked seeing Steph out-of-costume and that one panel of her butt .

Also nice that she seems to get Cass. I'm still not loving the series' take on Cass though .

Ah! I didn't realize Steph was going to be in YJ Targets. That focuses on the TV series Young Justice, right? It's been so long since I followed that. I now have to track that down and read it. Gotta see that Steph butt

[millernumber1]

Yeah, I'm really glad that Cluemaster 2 idea never happened .

I admit I don't love it as a concept, but I am open to seeing what Tynion or Seeley or Higgins or Valentine would do with it. If it were Brisson or Orlando, or even Lanzig and Kelly, I'd be much more hesitant. Though Brisson might switch to the other side of that list of Eternal writers depending on how Batman Inc goes.

They have a tendency to just abandon plots with Crystal and just reveal that she got 'better' off-panel. It happened with her drug addiction in the 90s and then with her becoming a villain in Eternal.

It's because Steph hasn't been a solo or even a lead on a small enough team to have a supporting cast since her Batgirl run. It's a bit of a much to expect writers to write plotlines for supporting characters for supporting characters.

That being said, Steph totally could be an awesome solo lead.

[millernumber1]

Ah! I didn't realize Steph was going to be in YJ Targets. That focuses on the TV series Young Justice, right? It's been so long since I followed that. I now have to track that down and read it. Gotta see that Steph butt

Yes, it's a tie-in to the YJ cartoon.

I don't really get why the butt is getting so much comment though.

[ohfellow]

I'm still assuming Steph is at least 17, possibly 18, depending on if they've let her actually age.

She was in college in her Batgirl series, and that was after having been "dead" for a number of years, so how old was she when she finally finished high school? Most kids start college at 18, and there's no way she'd have made it there any younger than that.

And wasn't she heading off to college at the end of Tynion's story in Detective? She never made it, though.

[millernumber1]

She was in college in her Batgirl series, and that was after having been "dead" for a number of years, so how old was she when she finally finished high school? Most kids start college at 18, and there's no way she'd have made it there any younger than that.

And wasn't she heading off to college at the end of Tynion's story in Detective? She never made it, though.

She was 19 during her Batgirl run. In Batman Eternal, though, which stated that Tim was 16, she was stated to be 17. Tim was explicitly stated to be 16 for many, many years after that, though it's been a few years since they've given him an explicit age that I'm aware of.

At the end of Tynion's Tec, Tim and Steph headed out to find the truth about the vision of the alternate future Brother Eye showed them. They "said" they were going to college, but Steph was never accepted to a school, and Tim was using that as a cover and never intended to go as far as I can tell from what Bendis said happened next in YJ.

[Frontier]

I admit I don't love it as a concept, but I am open to seeing what Tynion or Seeley or Higgins or Valentine would do with it. If it were Brisson or Orlando, or even Lanzig and Kelly, I'd be much more hesitant. Though Brisson might switch to the other side of that list of Eternal writers depending on how Batman Inc goes.

I don't think any writer really inspires much confidence in it to me just because it comes off as a really dumb idea to me, but that's just my take.

[millernumber1]

I don't think any writer really inspires much confidence in it to me just because it comes off as a really dumb idea to me, but that's just my take.

I mean, in a world shaped by Scott "there can be no civilian characters" Snyder, who only focused on Jim Gordon in any real way when he became Batman (or went evil, thanks, Snyder) (this is purely his n52 run, btw, he did a great job with Jim in The Black Mirror, obviously, but something about the n52 poisoned him as a writer of superhero comics), making Crystal a villain is one of the only ways she'd actually get used in that ecosystem. I don't really see a lot of civilian characters coming back, sadly. Tamaki tried hard with Deb Donovan, and I really, really appreciate her for that, but it doesn't feel like anyone else is really interested in that.

Oh, and I supposed Ridley too, with The Blue Wall, but I don't think that's going to be very good. But it's a data point against me.

Anyway. I am hoping that the inclusion of the Gotham Academy kids in this next arc of Batgirl does lead to some good civilian interactions. Especially with Steph.

[Frontier]

I mean, in a world shaped by Scott "there can be no civilian characters" Snyder, who only focused on Jim Gordon in any real way when he became Batman (or went evil, thanks, Snyder) (this is purely his n52 run, btw, he did a great job with Jim in The Black Mirror, obviously, but something about the n52 poisoned him as a writer of superhero comics), making Crystal a villain is one of the only ways she'd actually get used in that ecosystem. I don't really see a lot of civilian characters coming back, sadly. Tamaki tried hard with Deb Donovan, and I really, really appreciate her for that, but it doesn't feel like anyone else is really interested in that.

Oh, and I supposed Ridley too, with The Blue Wall, but I don't think that's going to be very good. But it's a data point against me.

Anyway. I am hoping that the inclusion of the Gotham Academy kids in this next arc of Batgirl does lead to some good civilian interactions. Especially with Steph.

I get that comics struggle with civilian characters, let alone supporting characters, but that doesn't really make the idea sound any more appealing.

I guess the Gotham Academy Kids still count, more or less .

[millernumber1]

I get that comics struggle with civilian characters, let alone supporting characters, but that doesn't really make the idea sound any more appealing.

I guess the Gotham Academy Kids still count, more or less .

No, I definitely see the downsides of Crystal as a villain. I just also see why the idea could be interesting, and why it might be better than never seeing her at all...which is what we currently have for the past 8 years.

Gotham Academy kids definitely count, even Maps, who has now been an "official" Robin