Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2022

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Hello Stephanie Appreciation thread. Long time lurker and new member here. I'm a big time fan of Stephanie Brown, she's my favorite Gotham dweller and I always love seeing her in new books. I've been following the new Batgirls comic and enjoyed her presence in them. I hope to get to know all my fellow Stephanie Brown fans as we chat and appreciate our girl in purple.

I'm curious as to your reasons for why you like Steph in Batgirls. Many seem to think that Steph appears to much like an amateur, too immature, and doesn't do much aside from being the bubbly blonde chick and is a step down from her Batgirl (2009 era).

Did you also catch Steph's appearance in the Tim Drake Pride Special?

[ComicNoobie]

I'm curious as to your reasons for why you like Steph in Batgirls. Many seem to think that Steph appears to much like an amateur, too immature, and doesn't do much aside from being the bubbly blonde chick and is a step down from her Batgirl (2009 era).

Did you also catch Steph's appearance in the Tim Drake Pride Special?

Batgirls seems to be written for younger readers. I get that and the complaints, but I've enjoyed it. Steph has always been one of the more upbeat members of the Batfamily and I think Batgirls showcases it. Her chemistry with Barbara and Cassandra is great, yes it can be a little childish at times, but it hasn't bothered me. They have a real family dynamic going on. Cass and Steph have always been a fun duo for me, so I always have fun seeing them fight together against criminals and their general interactions while on missions. I agree it's not as good as some previous Stephanie material, or when she's in other books with darker tones, but for what it is I do like her in Batgirls. Another thing I know is divisive is the art. I might be in the minority but I like the art, at least for the first arc with Tutor. I think it fits the lighter tone Batgirls has set.

As for Steph's appearance in the Tim Drake special, yeah I did. I didn't like it. It and War Games are my least favorite Stephanie material. It killed my favorite Gotham pair.

[millernumber1]

I think those are quite good points about Batgirls. I really like the art as well, and the character moments between Cass, Steph, and Babs.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Batgirls seems to be written for younger readers. I get that and the complaints, but I've enjoyed it. Steph has always been one of the more upbeat members of the Batfamily and I think Batgirls showcases it. Her chemistry with Barbara and Cassandra is great, yes it can be a little childish at times, but it hasn't bothered me. They have a real family dynamic going on. Cass and Steph have always been a fun duo for me, so I always have fun seeing them fight together against criminals and their general interactions while on missions. I agree it's not as good as some previous Stephanie material, or when she's in other books with darker tones, but for what it is I do like her in Batgirls. Another thing I know is divisive is the art. I might be in the minority but I like the art, at least for the first arc with Tutor. I think it fits the lighter tone Batgirls has set.

As for Steph's appearance in the Tim Drake special, yeah I did. I didn't like it. It and War Games are my least favorite Stephanie material. It killed my favorite Gotham pair.

I see your points and they are valid regarding Batgirls. Thanks for giving a different perspective. In my view I think it could have been done without putting Steph and Cass as lower on the totem pole than Barbara and not letting them be equal to her. It feels like a parent and two kids dynamic rather than a sister dynamic representing equals.

What didn't you like about the Pride Special? Was it Steph saying "this is the best day ever" upon meeting Bernard. I can get that as it was pure cringe.

[ComicNoobie]

I see your points and they are valid regarding Batgirls. Thanks for giving a different perspective. In my view I think it could have been done without putting Steph and Cass as lower on the totem pole than Barbara and not letting them be equal to her. It feels like a parent and two kids dynamic rather than a sister dynamic representing equals.

What didn't you like about the Pride Special? Was it Steph saying "this is the best day ever" upon meeting Bernard. I can get that as it was pure cringe.

I can understand that. I don't think they've been putting Steph and Cass lower exactly, only they are showcasing Babs as the more experienced mentor figure. It could be they are gearing up for all three standing as equals by the end but we'll see. I do think Batgirls is designed to try and get new readers into Steph and Cass.

As for the Pride Special, yes it was mainly "this is the best day ever" but also I don't like how this all went down in general. Tim and Steph are together and then suddenly they aren't with a offscreen breakup and then Tim's been ignoring her this whole time, and probably would have kept ignoring her if she didn't run into them while on that mission. I don't like that Steph's feelings were pushed aside just to boost Tim's new relationship. It was such a disservice to her, and if Stephanie didn't support TimXBernard then it would have put her in a bad light for that event, so she loses either way. I admit I'm a Steph/Tim shipper so I'm bias. I don't mind that Tim is Bi and if this was done realistically and respectfully I might have even accepted the breakup. I could go on about this forever, but I don't want my first posts to be long rants. I'll save those for when I become a more well known member lol.

[WebLurker]

It really must have slipped my mind, then again I wasn't aware of how fervent TimxKon was until later.

At least it's my understanding that it's been around for awhile; heard about it a long time ago and there has been fan fiction and fan art. I could be wrong about how popular it is (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Future State story has made it pop up more), but it has been a thing for some time. Never heard of "Tim/Kon" before hanging around these forums, but I don't follow many DC titles to begin with.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised given how same-sex Superhero shipping is pretty commonplace.

In the case of Cass/Steph, I wouldn't be surprised if it has a lot to do with Cass not having a designated love interest; there's an opening and since she's been shown to be really close with Steph, it would seem logical on paper. Conversely, while Steph has been most commonly paired up with Tim, it doesn't seem to be as "set in stone" the way some other comic book couples are (e.g. Superman and Lois Lane, Spider-Man and Mary Jane, etc.), which kinda "allows" her to be paired up with other people if the Powers That Be want to without it feeling like a gimmick, if that makes any sense.

[millernumber1]

What do people think about the Steph Batgirl backup in DC vs. Vampires: All Out War #1? Kind of heartbreaking stuff, but Steph was really badass!

[sunofdarkchild]

What do people think about the Steph Batgirl backup in DC vs. Vampires: All Out War #1? Kind of heartbreaking stuff, but Steph was really badass!

I think 99% of readers would never realize it's supposed to be Steph and not Barbara.

[millernumber1]

I think that is perhaps true, but the artist says it's Steph, and I think there's some expressions he gives her that feel just right for her.

[Frontier]

At least it's my understanding that it's been around for awhile; heard about it a long time ago and there has been fan fiction and fan art. I could be wrong about how popular it is (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Future State story has made it pop up more), but it has been a thing for some time. Never heard of "Tim/Kon" before hanging around these forums, but I don't follow many DC titles to begin with.

See, these things never dawned on me when I was reading comics with them in it but maybe I've just been on the wrong forums .

(Then again, if there's a same-sex Superhero friendship, people will ship it).

n the case of Cass/Steph, I wouldn't be surprised if it has a lot to do with Cass not having a designated love interest; there's an opening and since she's been shown to be really close with Steph, it would seem logical on paper. Conversely, while Steph has been most commonly paired up with Tim, it doesn't seem to be as "set in stone" the way some other comic book couples are (e.g. Superman and Lois Lane, Spider-Man and Mary Jane, etc.), which kinda "allows" her to be paired up with other people if the Powers That Be want to without it feeling like a gimmick, if that makes any sense.

Cass once made out with Superboy. Not that that proves anything, I understand she's never had a main love interest, although that doesn't strike me as indication she would automatically pair up with her best friend.

I would say it isn't set in stone in the sense of them being married but in the sense that they've been together or romantically attracted to each other for a good deal of their publication history.

[ohfellow]

See, these things never dawned on me when I was reading comics with them in it but maybe I've just been on the wrong forums

I don't run into it unless I search, but a search on Twitter for #StephCass, for instance, will come up with an infinite amount of fan art. I guess you could search for a hashtag of any combination of prominent characters and come up with something. I don't know if there is a relationship between shippers and comic book readers. Maybe it's just a social media thing. Maybe it's super-prevalent on Tumblr but I don't spend any time on Tumblr so I don't run across much from there.

[WebLurker]

See, these things never dawned on me when I was reading comics with them in it but maybe I've just been on the wrong forums .

For what it's worth, I think most of the comics weren't written with the idea in mind, so it was a lot of readers stringing stuff together. Since the Future State story was apparently written with them as lovers and that event was meant to foreshadow and set up stuff in the current comics, I think that has had people examining Batgirls a lot closer to see if that is an element that's going to pop up. (IMHO, I'm not convinced yet that is the plan, but, I do have to say that it's a decent setup for a slow burn).

(Then again, if there's a same-sex Superhero friendship, people will ship it).

People will ship anything. I've seen far less logical ones than this.

Cass once made out with Superboy. Not that that proves anything, I understand she's never had a main love interest, although that doesn't strike me as indication she would automatically pair up with her best friend.

I wouldn't say it "had" to be Steph or anything (there is a difference between fans who think there are clues that they could be more than friends and fans who just think they would make a good couple). However, Steph is someone her age she's been consistently shown to be close to and able to open up with. There's a decent foundation if someone wanted to make something of it.

I would say it isn't set in stone in the sense of them being married but in the sense that they've been together or romantically attracted to each other for a good deal of their publication history.

Doesn't seem like it's been translated into other media, though. Not saying it hasn't been a major thing, but I guess I'm not sure it's really a defining trait for them, if that makes any sense?

[ohfellow]

What do people think about the Steph Batgirl backup in DC vs. Vampires: All Out War #1? Kind of heartbreaking stuff, but Steph was really badass!

I think 99% of readers would never realize it's supposed to be Steph and not Barbara.

I think that is perhaps true, but the artist says it's Steph, and I think there's some expressions he gives her that feel just right for her.

Too bad there's no color, so we can't see if it's a blonde ponytail or a red one. Nor did Guillaume Singelin shade anyone's hair with b&w, so you can't distinguish blonde from any other hair color. Jim Gordon's mustache looks no darker than Batgirl's ponytail.

But I guess Steph has worn ponytails, and not Barbara? In which case that's a big clue, but not for the general public.

It's an impractical ponytail, btw. High risk of it snagging on things, or getting tugged. She'd get decapitated early and often.

There's a line of dialog that doesn't make things less ambiguous: "You were a good cop, a good father, Mr. Gordon." Just the mention of "father" would suggest this is Barbara - assuming in this continuity, as in most, Jim doesn't know his daughter was a Batgirl.

Plus, she's wearing something similar to the Burnside right-sided thigh belt, with a single pouch, that doesn't look like the bulkier left-sided ones Steph used.

Only a few reviews are out so far, including one by someone I know is a big Steph fan, but so far to the extent that the backup is discussed, the character is only called "Batgirl." There's no reason even expert readers would know who it is without reading Singelin's social media. I wonder why the choice was made to be this oblique? Will there be more to this story? It looks like the backup stories will be one-shots.

That said, it's great action!

[ohfellow]

Steph doesn't fair well in the latest term paper from Meghan Fitzmartin and Dave Wielgosz, "Dark Crisis: Young Justice #2."

A lot of what this book is about would be beyond the scope of this thread about Stephanie. To be brief, the themes seem to be that characters in the 90s were sexist and homophobic, as were readers of the time; that the girls then were plot devices, ornaments, to serve the guys; and anyone who wants to return to that era hasn't grown very much (or, worse). The themes are playing out both in the past, and in the interactions in the present between Cassie and Cissie.

It's a past era where Tim describes Cassie as "less angry" than now - "almost clueless." Yeah - an empty-headed ornament I guess.

The exchanges relevant to Steph are:

Cassie (90s version) to Tim: "I'm sure Spoiler would love to get back together with you once you're Batman."

Tim (2022 version stuck in the 90s): ".... but I don't want to date Stephanie. I'm dating Bernard." (There is no reason for ellipses in Tim's dialog - I'm just typing what it says.)

Batman (90s version): "But you will. She's your destiny once you're out of the phase."

Tim (to himself, I guess): "@#$$#&* what?"

I suppose the larger point Fitzmartin is trying to make, the only one most people will pick up on, is that this 1990s Batman is at best dismissive, if not homophobic.

But look how Steph got dragged into this!

1) She dumped Tim -- because he's a mere Robin. But if he becomes Batman, she'll be impressed enough to get back together.

What is this, like she's a high school cheerleader who only wants to date the quarterback?!

2) This gives Tim a reason to assert again that he doesn't want Steph.

3) It's rich that Fitzmartin is calling out the women of the time for being clueless props for the guys, around whom the real stories revolve and the power accrues - after having just used Steph as a prop in the Tim Drake special.

4) Why would Batman refer to "destiny" this way? That's strange. I think Fitzmartin must have put these words into Batman's mouth to make fun of fans who had a negative reaction to her first Tim Drake story.

It's possible that this entire mini-series is in response to those reactions.

[Aahz]

that the girls then were plot devices, ornaments, to serve the guys

That seems pretty of to me, since in both New (Teen) Titans and Young Justice, the Girls where usually the ones that where in the center of the story, usually since they were the ones created for the book and didn't have much appearances outside of it.

IIRC Arrowette had much more character development in YJ than Tim, Bart and Conner.

The boys where of course likely the characters that drove the sales of the book.