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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbats View Post

    Another thing I've noticed (I'm not sure where else to put this) is the lack of cohesive planning for Gotham from DC editorial. For all of the Batfamily titles DC is publishing right now, it certainly feels like whatever happens in one book occurs in a vacuum and doesn't affect other titles in any form.
    Really? I've honestly felt the opposite. It feels like there's a real direction, IMO, and a lot of interconnectivity and references between books.

    The Lazarus Resin has been an ongoing thread, between Task Force Z, the Urban Legends Azrael story, Robin, and more recently, the Batman Annual setting up the Batman Incorporated book. I'm currently assuming it's building towards Batman vs. Robin.

    We had A-Day in Infinite Frontier #0 that fueled the Batman book, The Joker, while also leading to Task Force Z and Arkham City: The Order of the World. It also was referenced/used in early parts of the Urban Legends: Cheer storyline (which ended with Jason getting his Task Force Z suit in the final part).

    Ram V and Tynion coordinated between Batman and Catwoman, and Tini Howard and Chip Zdarsky seem to be doing the same. The recent Catwoman issue tied into both Batgirls and Batman, while Valmot from Catwoman cameod in Batman.

    Batman's leaving Gotham for the Abyss arc was referenced across a number of books, including Detective Comics, Catwoman, and The Joker.

    The Dick/Babs relationship seems to be carrying over beyond Nightwing, including being a thing in the Batgirls book.

    An impressive one to me was the Clownhunter Secret Files issue having him face off against Punchline's gang and she's seen on a phone while in jail- and then like a week or two later, her having a phone played a role in the Joker back-up. We've also seen signs for Punchline in Batman and I Am Batman (I'm pretty sure) along with a reference to the end of the trial in The Joker.

    Poison Ivy's story was threaded through Catwoman, Harley Quinn, and Batman before spinning off into her own miniseries.

    Before being sent off for a non-existent WILDCATS books, Grifter was introduced in Batman as Lucious's bodyguard, before appearing in The Next Batman: Second Son and Batman: Urban Legends.

    While it may not be perfect, I feel like there's been a concentrated effort to connect things and make it feel like Gotham City is a living, breathing place across books.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorkel567 View Post
    Really? I've honestly felt the opposite. It feels like there's a real direction, IMO, and a lot of interconnectivity and references between books.

    The Lazarus Resin has been an ongoing thread, between Task Force Z, the Urban Legends Azrael story, Robin, and more recently, the Batman Annual setting up the Batman Incorporated book. I'm currently assuming it's building towards Batman vs. Robin.

    We had A-Day in Infinite Frontier #0 that fueled the Batman book, The Joker, while also leading to Task Force Z and Arkham City: The Order of the World. It also was referenced/used in early parts of the Urban Legends: Cheer storyline (which ended with Jason getting his Task Force Z suit in the final part).

    Ram V and Tynion coordinated between Batman and Catwoman, and Tini Howard and Chip Zdarsky seem to be doing the same. The recent Catwoman issue tied into both Batgirls and Batman, while Valmot from Catwoman cameod in Batman.

    Batman's leaving Gotham for the Abyss arc was referenced across a number of books, including Detective Comics, Catwoman, and The Joker.

    The Dick/Babs relationship seems to be carrying over beyond Nightwing, including being a thing in the Batgirls book.

    An impressive one to me was the Clownhunter Secret Files issue having him face off against Punchline's gang and she's seen on a phone while in jail- and then like a week or two later, her having a phone played a role in the Joker back-up. We've also seen signs for Punchline in Batman and I Am Batman (I'm pretty sure) along with a reference to the end of the trial in The Joker.

    Poison Ivy's story was threaded through Catwoman, Harley Quinn, and Batman before spinning off into her own miniseries.

    Before being sent off for a non-existent WILDCATS books, Grifter was introduced in Batman as Lucious's bodyguard, before appearing in The Next Batman: Second Son and Batman: Urban Legends.

    While it may not be perfect, I feel like there's been a concentrated effort to connect things and make it feel like Gotham City is a living, breathing place across books.
    I think the Punchline backups are the only things that feel disconnected in a sense, mainly due to nobody other than Leslie coming to Harper/Bluebird's assistance against Punchline. Reminds me of how Harper is often excluded from those big Bat-Family promo art.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    Suppose Harper was a DLC in Gotham Knights (game), what would you want her moveset to be and what outfits would she wear?
    Hrr Bluebird attire and be a tech savvy kind of playstyle.

    But I'd actually like to see her exist in the game period at this point and not be wasted like the comics are doing.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    Hrr Bluebird attire and be a tech savvy kind of playstyle.

    But I'd actually like to see her exist in the game period at this point and not be wasted like the comics are doing.
    My gut feeling is that she could be a side character in the base game to establish that she exists in the Gotham Knights universe, then you drop hints of her being a hero to lead up to the Bluebird DLC.

  5. #35
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Zdarsky and Tini Howard and to some extent Taylor and the Batgirls team are trying hard to coordinate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorkel567 View Post
    Really? I've honestly felt the opposite. It feels like there's a real direction, IMO, and a lot of interconnectivity and references between books.

    The Lazarus Resin has been an ongoing thread, between Task Force Z, the Urban Legends Azrael story, Robin, and more recently, the Batman Annual setting up the Batman Incorporated book. I'm currently assuming it's building towards Batman vs. Robin.

    We had A-Day in Infinite Frontier #0 that fueled the Batman book, The Joker, while also leading to Task Force Z and Arkham City: The Order of the World. It also was referenced/used in early parts of the Urban Legends: Cheer storyline (which ended with Jason getting his Task Force Z suit in the final part).

    Ram V and Tynion coordinated between Batman and Catwoman, and Tini Howard and Chip Zdarsky seem to be doing the same. The recent Catwoman issue tied into both Batgirls and Batman, while Valmot from Catwoman cameod in Batman.

    Batman's leaving Gotham for the Abyss arc was referenced across a number of books, including Detective Comics, Catwoman, and The Joker.

    The Dick/Babs relationship seems to be carrying over beyond Nightwing, including being a thing in the Batgirls book.

    An impressive one to me was the Clownhunter Secret Files issue having him face off against Punchline's gang and she's seen on a phone while in jail- and then like a week or two later, her having a phone played a role in the Joker back-up. We've also seen signs for Punchline in Batman and I Am Batman (I'm pretty sure) along with a reference to the end of the trial in The Joker.

    Poison Ivy's story was threaded through Catwoman, Harley Quinn, and Batman before spinning off into her own miniseries.

    Before being sent off for a non-existent WILDCATS books, Grifter was introduced in Batman as Lucious's bodyguard, before appearing in The Next Batman: Second Son and Batman: Urban Legends.

    While it may not be perfect, I feel like there's been a concentrated effort to connect things and make it feel like Gotham City is a living, breathing place across books.
    I apologize about that claim, I've been reflecting and my frustration with the Punchline storyline had resulted in me being blinded to all of this, despite reading the majority of those titles. I suppose it stems from the vacuum the Trial of Punchline is set in, and while I understand why Tynion and Johns needed to have Harper on her own, it still does not sit well with me that the next time Harper does show up, she will most likely be held accountable for "letting Punchline get away".

    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    Suppose Harper was a DLC in Gotham Knights (game), what would you want her moveset to be and what outfits would she wear?
    I suppose if Arkham Knights were to use Harper as a playable character, they would have to make a one-shot dlc for her like the Arkham Knight Red Hood dlc. I'm not sure Harper could take on Talons and the Court of Owls but if it were the Wonderland Gang, I think she could do that. Plus I'm not sure Harper would have the transportation that seems to be a focal point in Arkham Knights so a level thats condensed and gives Harper lots of cover and opportunities to evade enemies would be interesting.
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbats View Post
    I apologize about that claim, I've been reflecting and my frustration with the Punchline storyline had resulted in me being blinded to all of this, despite reading the majority of those titles. I suppose it stems from the vacuum the Trial of Punchline is set in, and while I understand why Tynion and Johns needed to have Harper on her own, it still does not sit well with me that the next time Harper does show up, she will most likely be held accountable for "letting Punchline get away".
    It's no big deal. Haha. I'll admit I've gotten into regularly reading monthlies with Infinite Frontier, and mostly stayed with Gotham books so far, and that's one of the things I've been really loving is how interconnected and fleshed out it feels. Reading the Batman Annual a couple months and seeing the Lazarus Resin pop up was fun, for example.

    But I definitely get what you're saying about the Punchline back-up. It feels like it was really hampered by being stuck as a back-up, rather than a miniseries. I feel like it started really strong with the Punchline One-Shot, but then it suffered from trying to cram development into 8-page segments, while also attempting (for a while anyways) to keep an equal balance between Harper and Punchline. Plus, it was likely a lot harder to coordinate with other books at the rather slow pace the story unraveled, being that they had less than half the page count of the normal monthlies.

    So in the end, Harper didn't get any back-up and got short-changed, while Punchline's story felt rushed-through imo because they always needed some big reveal or cliffhanger at the end of each Chapter, meaning they had to push through a lot of 'happenings' in a small page count.

  7. #37
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorkel567 View Post
    It's no big deal. Haha. I'll admit I've gotten into regularly reading monthlies with Infinite Frontier, and mostly stayed with Gotham books so far, and that's one of the things I've been really loving is how interconnected and fleshed out it feels. Reading the Batman Annual a couple months and seeing the Lazarus Resin pop up was fun, for example.

    But I definitely get what you're saying about the Punchline back-up. It feels like it was really hampered by being stuck as a back-up, rather than a miniseries. I feel like it started really strong with the Punchline One-Shot, but then it suffered from trying to cram development into 8-page segments, while also attempting (for a while anyways) to keep an equal balance between Harper and Punchline. Plus, it was likely a lot harder to coordinate with other books at the rather slow pace the story unraveled, being that they had less than half the page count of the normal monthlies.

    So in the end, Harper didn't get any back-up and got short-changed, while Punchline's story felt rushed-through imo because they always needed some big reveal or cliffhanger at the end of each Chapter, meaning they had to push through a lot of 'happenings' in a small page count.
    Yeah I'm trying to get back into it, I've got a good pile to go through, currently reading through late April 2022 so I've still got a bit to go before I catch up. Really I have no excuse, not like I don't have a lack of opportunity to catch up right now. Cool I look forward to reading it.

    I think the first misstep was that the Punchline One-Shot was a month after the conclusion of Joker War and then took six months to roll out the story. I agree with everything you've described about how things happened with The Joker and Punchline, could have had the opportunity to have Punchline be it's own series, the eight-page segments felt disjointed as every time the story gained momentum, it was over and we'd have to wait another month for an instalment.
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

  8. #38
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    As I said before, I think there’s good story potential with a story with Harper confronting the Bat Family and having a mix of emotions about feeling abandoned (as a meta commentary about how she’s often forgotten when speaking about the Family) and how that figures into why nobody helped her out versus Punchline.

  9. #39
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    As I said before, I think there’s good story potential with a story with Harper confronting the Bat Family and having a mix of emotions about feeling abandoned (as a meta commentary about how she’s often forgotten when speaking about the Family) and how that figures into why nobody helped her out versus Punchline.
    It does have good storytelling potential, you could keep the cast small since Harper only seems to have history with Bruce, Tim, and Cassandra (I’m not sure she would remember Dick post-Grayson). My concern is if you would add Leslie’s frustration with Bruce to the mix, because that instantly would draw comparisons to Stephanie Brown and the fallout of War Games.

    I feel like Harper would probably have a cold indifference to the Batfamily as a result, probably would make a reference to it not being the first time Harper and Cullen being abandoned, that she put too much faith in other people, and that she should’ve known better.
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

  10. #40
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    Lack of any Bluebird mentions in the two Gotham Game issues’ solicitations has me concerned that she’s not in it now that her role of “Punchline’s punching bag” is fulfilled.

  11. #41
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Well September's been a very exciting month for Harper. While there has not been any mention of Harper in the upcoming Punchline: The Gotham Game or any of the other Batfamily books, she has made her debut in the Season Two premier of Batman: Wayne Family Adventures , even appearing on the header of the series.
    WFA_Bluebird.jpg Screen Shot 2022-09-28 at 8.40.31 PM.jpg

    Similarly, artist Sweeney Boo had posted a Bluebird picture as part of a series of commissions she has been working on. While the full picture hasn't been revealed, I'll be sure to post it when I see it.
    Sweeney Boo_Bluebird.jpg
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbats View Post
    Well September's been a very exciting month for Harper. While there has not been any mention of Harper in the upcoming Punchline: The Gotham Game or any of the other Batfamily books, she has made her debut in the Season Two premier of Batman: Wayne Family Adventures , even appearing on the header of the series.
    WFA_Bluebird.jpg Screen Shot 2022-09-28 at 8.40.31 PM.jpg

    Similarly, artist Sweeney Boo had posted a Bluebird picture as part of a series of commissions she has been working on. While the full picture hasn't been revealed, I'll be sure to post it when I see it.
    Sweeney Boo_Bluebird.jpg
    Nice take on her costume.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbats View Post
    Well September's been a very exciting month for Harper. While there has not been any mention of Harper in the upcoming Punchline: The Gotham Game or any of the other Batfamily books, she has made her debut in the Season Two premier of Batman: Wayne Family Adventures , even appearing on the header of the series.
    WFA_Bluebird.jpg Screen Shot 2022-09-28 at 8.40.31 PM.jpg

    Similarly, artist Sweeney Boo had posted a Bluebird picture as part of a series of commissions she has been working on. While the full picture hasn't been revealed, I'll be sure to post it when I see it.
    Sweeney Boo_Bluebird.jpg
    Since Gotham Knights (the game) releases in a couple of weeks, might also be a good time to see if Harper at least shows up as an NPC.

  14. #44
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Nice take on her costume.
    It certainly is, the comics need to upgrade Harper’s outfit in the main comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    Since Gotham Knights (the game) releases in a couple of weeks, might also be a good time to see if Harper at least shows up as an NPC.
    I understand that the game’s inspired by Court of Owls and Night of the Owls storylines, but I feel like if she was to show up people would ask why Stephanie and Cassandra did not.

    0A451B45-E359-4088-8720-A1274347E332.jpg

    Here’s the final image of the Sweeney Boo Bluebird commission. I was the commissioner for the piece, it looks great in person and I can’t wait to get it framed like my other Harper pieces.
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

  15. #45
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    It looks like Harper will be appearing in Punchline: The Gotham Game.

    PUNCHLINE: THE GOTHAM GAME #4
    Written by TINI HOWARD and BLAKE HOWARD
    Art by MAX RAYNOR
    Cover by VASCO GEORGEIV
    Variant cover by DAVID MARQUEZ
    Variant cover by WARREN LOUW
    1:25 variant cover by SWEENEY BOO
    1:50 foil variant cover by CLAIRE ROE
    $3.99 US | 32 pages | 4 of 6 | Variant $4.99 US (card stock)
    ON SALE 1/24/23
    BOYS' CLUB! Punchline and the Royal Flush Gang's crusade to reshape the Gotham City underworld continues with a vengeance. But Punchline is done dealing with henchmen and hired assassins…she's going right to the top, forcing a meeting with Black Mask and his criminal hive. Will Punchline have their ear, or will they rip out her heart?! And how will Bluebird recover from the vicious defeat Punchline dealt her as she tries to help her brother?

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