Cassandra Cain: Orphan, Black Bat, Batgirl Appreciation 2022

[Ruthborn]

So I noticed a Easter Egg photo in Gotham Knights last night. Its amongst the right-hand screens of the main computer in the Belfry; its a picture of two girls and Barbara in her wheel chair. Now one girl is blond and the other is raven-haired, however I'm not sure whether they are Dinah and Helena (Birds of Prey reference) or Stephanie and Cass (Batgirls reference). Any players of the game want to take a swing at who they are? I'll post a screenshot later.

[Majesty]

The first time I heard Cassandra's voice was in DC Universe Online and of course the next time I heard her voice was in Birds of Prey Harley Quinn movie. I like the DCUO voice better. Here is Cassandra's voice clips from the game DC Universe Online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrFZ0as6biQ.

She was Cassandra Cain in name only but nothing else. No idea why they made her Cassandra Cain and then made her nothing like Cassandra.

Now if at the end when Black Mask held her hostage she'd have pulled out some moves and killed him when Harley was trying to negotiate and revealed herself to have been trained by the League of Shadows and said "Long Story" when Harley looked confused. That would have saved it. Because it would have meant she was pretending the whole movie and was sent there to kill Black Mask and did all this to get close.

That would fit Cassandra. But they didn't do any of that, they just had her out of character the whole time.

[The Cool Thatguy]

She was Cassandra Cain in name only but nothing else. No idea why they made her Cassandra Cain and then made her nothing like Cassandra.

Now if at the end when Black Mask held her hostage she'd have pulled out some moves and killed him when Harley was trying to negotiate and revealed herself to have been trained by the League of Shadows and said "Long Story" when Harley looked confused. That would have saved it. Because it would have meant she was pretending the whole movie and was sent there to kill Black Mask and did all this to get close.

That would fit Cassandra. But they didn't do any of that, they just had her out of character the whole time.

They chose an ethnically diverse supporting cast to boost the whitest girl ever, who's super power was poor choice in men.

Full stop.

[godisawesome]

I *do* find myself wondering if there was any conscious strategy of encumbering, delaying, or even just "neutering" some of the other heroic characters in HQ:BOP for the express purpose of making sure Harley didn't get shown up, and Cassandra is simply the most identifiable version of that issue.

I mean, if Dinah, Helena, or Montoya showed up in full costume, as veteran heroes with full access to their powers or skills form the gate (like the Justice Society in Black Adam), there's a pretty good chance Harley comes off as much less of a threat in comparison (especially since, unlike Black Adam, even the most optimistic portrayal of her abilities isn't consistently a league above the others.)

Cass would present the issue of being even more of a threat than Huntress without the "Crutch" of a superpower like Black Canary, and an even more sympathetic backstory and trauma than Harley... so if they were going to insist that Black Canary can only use her sonic scream once, and keep Huntress out of most of the action until late in the film, they weren't going to let Cass do her "better fighter than Batman, more interesting than Harley" thing.

[Konja7]

I *do* find myself wondering if there was any conscious strategy of encumbering, delaying, or even just "neutering" some of the other heroic characters in HQ:BOP for the express purpose of making sure Harley didn't get shown up, and Cassandra is simply the most identifiable version of that issue.

I read Margot was offered a solo Harley Quinn movie, but she chose a Birds of Prey because she wants to show lesser known characters. So, Harley was always the centre of this story.

Still, I don't think they fear Harley won't be a thread if the other characters have their complete set of powers. After all, they could always make Harley overpowered (they've already do that with Batman and Joker). In any case, I think the fear would be that the street level villains in the movie won't be a thread.

That said, in Cassandra's case, I think they just want an Asian kid sidekick character. They chose Cassandra because she is relatively recognizable.


PS: In itself, it's a pretty similar logic to Cassandra being Batgirl in Batwheels animation, although her personality and abilities will be totally different.

[Digifiend]

So I noticed a Easter Egg photo in Gotham Knights last night. Its amongst the right-hand screens of the main computer in the Belfry; its a picture of two girls and Barbara in her wheel chair. Now one girl is blond and the other is raven-haired, however I'm not sure whether they are Dinah and Helena (Birds of Prey reference) or Stephanie and Cass (Batgirls reference). Any players of the game want to take a swing at who they are? I'll post a screenshot later.

The hair length of the dark haired one might be a good clue. Cass's is usually bobbed, but Helena only cut hers short recently and traditionally has long hair. The blonde you'll need to be able to see the costume to identify (if it's purple, it's probably Steph, if there are fishnets, it's definitely Dinah), as both Steph and Dinah have had various hairstyles over the years, both bobbed and long.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I *do* find myself wondering if there was any conscious strategy of encumbering, delaying, or even just "neutering" some of the other heroic characters in HQ:BOP for the express purpose of making sure Harley didn't get shown up, and Cassandra is simply the most identifiable version of that issue.

I mean, if Dinah, Helena, or Montoya showed up in full costume, as veteran heroes with full access to their powers or skills form the gate (like the Justice Society in Black Adam), there's a pretty good chance Harley comes off as much less of a threat in comparison (especially since, unlike Black Adam, even the most optimistic portrayal of her abilities isn't consistently a league above the others.)

Cass would present the issue of being even more of a threat than Huntress without the "Crutch" of a superpower like Black Canary, and an even more sympathetic backstory and trauma than Harley... so if they were going to insist that Black Canary can only use her sonic scream once, and keep Huntress out of most of the action until late in the film, they weren't going to let Cass do her "better fighter than Batman, more interesting than Harley" thing.

They could have put some actual damn effort into it, and could have used bad ass Cass just fine.

Harley is a shrink, and as such should have some ideas about how to communicate with a young, traumatized non-verbal woman.

I read Margot was offered a solo Harley Quinn movie, but she chose a Birds of Prey because she wants to show lesser known characters. So, Harley was always the centre of this story.

Still, I don't think they fear Harley won't be a thread if the other characters have their complete set of powers. After all, they could always make Harley overpowered (they've already do that with Batman and Joker). In any case, I think the fear would be that the street level villains in the movie won't be a thread.

Will Smith said he liked playing a villain, yet Deadshot never went past the 80s anti-hero.

Comic book movies are making bank, and I'm sure plenty of actors want to be the next RDJ or Chris Evans. I think Margot was just hedging her bets.

[thefinalguy]

So I noticed a Easter Egg photo in Gotham Knights last night. Its amongst the right-hand screens of the main computer in the Belfry; its a picture of two girls and Barbara in her wheel chair. Now one girl is blond and the other is raven-haired, however I'm not sure whether they are Dinah and Helena (Birds of Prey reference) or Stephanie and Cass (Batgirls reference). Any players of the game want to take a swing at who they are? I'll post a screenshot later.

I've heard about this pic but for whatever reason, I haven't noticed it, can't find it online, and forget about it when I play.

But there are phone calls from Dinah and Helena in-game so those are definitely them in the photo.

She was Cassandra Cain in name only but nothing else. No idea why they made her Cassandra Cain and then made her nothing like Cassandra.

Now if at the end when Black Mask held her hostage she'd have pulled out some moves and killed him when Harley was trying to negotiate and revealed herself to have been trained by the League of Shadows and said "Long Story" when Harley looked confused. That would have saved it. Because it would have meant she was pretending the whole movie and was sent there to kill Black Mask and did all this to get close.

That would fit Cassandra. But they didn't do any of that, they just had her out of character the whole time.

I liked BOP and thought the hate was unfair from the start, but Cass is where they really failed.

They could've made her closer to her character and it could've still worked.

Probably the main thing I would've changed in an otherwise entertaining movie.

[Konja7]

Will Smith said he liked playing a villain, yet Deadshot never went past the 80s anti-hero.

Comic book movies are making bank, and I'm sure plenty of actors want to be the next RDJ or Chris Evans. I think Margot was just hedging her bets.

However, Birds of Prey (and their members) isn't a big brand name outside comics. So, Margot wouldn't really benefit a lot for the other characters appearing.

Harley Qinn was still the centre of the promotion for that movie.

[Avantre]

I've heard about this pic but for whatever reason, I haven't noticed it, can't find it online, and forget about it when I play.

But there are phone calls from Dinah and Helena in-game so those are definitely them in the photo.

This is presumably the photo in question (4:51 if it didn't timestamp for some reason), and yeah it sure looks like Dinah and Helena to me.

[Ruthborn]

So I noticed a Easter Egg photo in Gotham Knights last night. Its amongst the right-hand screens of the main computer in the Belfry; its a picture of two girls and Barbara in her wheel chair. Now one girl is blond and the other is raven-haired, however I'm not sure whether they are Dinah and Helena (Birds of Prey reference) or Stephanie and Cass (Batgirls reference). Any players of the game want to take a swing at who they are? I'll post a screenshot later.

Here's the screenshot.
313488685_495039759219775_4750433897901103003_n.jpg

[Frontier]

Here's the screenshot.
313488685_495039759219775_4750433897901103003_n.jpg

Dinah looks good there!

[Digifiend]

Why is there no cross motif on Huntress's outfit? Doesn't she always wear a cross?

[Frontier]

Why is there no cross motif on Huntress's outfit? Doesn't she always wear a cross?

I don't think either of them are supposed to be in-costume in that picture.

[The Cool Thatguy]

However, Birds of Prey (and their members) isn't a big brand name outside comics. So, Margot wouldn't really benefit a lot for the other characters appearing.

Harley Qinn was still the centre of the promotion for that movie.

They might not be a big name, but they were still a draw and it still allowed it to pretend to be diverse.