Cassandra Cain: Orphan, Black Bat, Batgirl Appreciation 2022

[The Cool Thatguy]

I've heard mixed reactions to Cass's adaption in YJ. Thoughts on it?

I only like that she got some focus, that's about it.

I'm stunned that they never took any time to contrast Cass and Artemis. Batman lied about both their backgrounds to allow them to work as heroes, yet that went unremarked.

Cass crippling Babs might have worked, had it been better executed. I'm at a loss as to why Cass would be so impacted about maiming a rando who got between her and her target.

Wasn't a big fan of her inability to talk, either. Is sign language expensive to animate?

[Frontier]

I only like that she got some focus, that's about it.

I'm stunned that they never took any time to contrast Cass and Artemis. Batman lied about both their backgrounds to allow them to work as heroes, yet that went unremarked.

Cass crippling Babs might have worked, had it been better executed. I'm at a loss as to why Cass would be so impacted about maiming a rando who got between her and her target.

Wasn't a big fan of her inability to talk, either. Is sign language expensive to animate?

A lot of stuff doesn't hold up like why the Batfamily still lets her run around with a sword or that they seemingly haven't taught her sign language in all these years when they know she can't speak.

Also the fact that Shiva cut her vocal chords makes her even worse than David Cain and also prevents us from seeing one of Cass' biggest achievements which was Babs teaching her how to speak.

[Gaius]

Steve Rude

[Frontier]

Cass posing .

[The Cool Thatguy]

A lot of stuff doesn't hold up like why the Batfamily still lets her run around with a sword or that they seemingly haven't taught her sign language in all these years when they know she can't speak.

Also the fact that Shiva cut her vocal chords makes her even worse than David Cain and also prevents us from seeing one of Cass' biggest achievements which was Babs teaching her how to speak.

Another thing that doesn't really hold up, is why the team would take Cass in after she crippled Babs.

In her first origin, it was Cass' remorse that drove her character. Hard to see the source of it now

[Blight]

Another thing that doesn't really hold up, is why the team would take Cass in after she crippled Babs.

In her first origin, it was Cass' remorse that drove her character. Hard to see the source of it now

To be fair, it doesn't look like they did. She isn't close with Steph in YJ, and once the time is up she's off enjoying her life outside vigilanting. Also there's Arrowette's comment in the first episode she showed up. Saying that Cass didn't care when cutting thru Clayface if her assumption proved false. Course, we know that Cass would know the difference between the two. But they don't and it shows there is an unease among the Bats/Arrows with her. It feels like the only person we've seen show Cass any respect than Babs is Tim (from their mutual tag-teaming Clayface makes it reason to assume they spent time drilling team tactics). However again, we haven't seen Cass ever with Dick and perhaps there's a good reason for that.

There's also the time table. So we know the incident took place prior to S3. However, at the start of S3 Cass wasn't present at all with the teams. So it stands to reason Cass started her time as Orphan between episode 1 and 7 of S3.

[Frontier]

To be fair, it doesn't look like they did. She isn't close with Steph in YJ, and once the time is up she's off enjoying her life outside vigilanting. Also there's Arrowette's comment in the first episode she showed up. Saying that Cass didn't care when cutting thru Clayface if her assumption proved false. Course, we know that Cass would know the difference between the two. But they don't and it shows there is an unease among the Bats/Arrows with her. It feels like the only person we've seen show Cass any respect than Babs is Tim (from their mutual tag-teaming Clayface makes it reason to assume they spent time drilling team tactics). However again, we haven't seen Cass ever with Dick and perhaps there's a good reason for that.

There's also the time table. So we know the incident took place prior to S3. However, at the start of S3 Cass wasn't present at all with the teams. So it stands to reason Cass started her time as Orphan between episode 1 and 7 of S3.

I don't think we have enough frame of reference for Cass and Steph's relationship. I mean, she seemed kind of over Cass' behavior when her monitor duty was up and Cass was just there staring but it seemed like she was used to it more than annoyed, at least to me.

Babs gave the indication that the Batfamily would drop everything if she was in danger but I guess that could just be following Bruce's lead...although we also don't have much indication for how close she and Batman are in this universe.

[Blight]

I've heard mixed reactions to Cass's adaption in YJ. Thoughts on it?

I find it a mixed bag.

Her placement in the arc and how it shifts to her being a key player was poorly done. Likewise, I'm not really a fan of adapting key sections of Batman & Robin Eternal but subbing out David and Mother for just Shiva. It really didn't do Shiva's characterization any favors the arc. There's also the fight between the two at the end of the arc. Again (much like B&RE) it took away Cass's agency and making sure the choice was her own. Instead of having Dick (in the comics) and Babs (in the show) being the one to be all, "Cass don't do it! Your better than this!" There's also the fact that they lifted original David Cain stuff for Cheshire/Artemis/Sportsmaster. Never once do we see in the arc it highlighted of Artemis having her own personal reasons in saving Cass. Then there's also this sudden personal baggage between Babs and Cass that we had 0 hints toward. If there was any hints prior again the payoff would been much more natural instead of random. I hope that from on the creators continue this relationship with Babs/Cass or else what's the point of this arc then?

But I did enjoy when Cass began to get bigger focus in the second part. I loved her and Cheshire fighting Black Spider. Along with the moment she's free you get that, "It's on." face with her. It's just that if you take in part 1 you're left scratching your head as to why she was introduced better into the arc like everyone else is. If the arc introduced the character better and left a bit of Shiva feeling more remorse than it could have been a better arc. But it's basically BoP 2.0 but taking the wrong origins (i.e. B&RE). Seriously, Shadow of the Batgirl did a better modern origin to the original. I'm surprised creators aren't following it more in adapting that than the edgy origin of B&RE.

[Frontier]

The moment they kept doubling down on the "Orphan" codename and delivering such amazing lines as "Orphan can't fight her mother!" was when I realized they were drawing too much from B&R: E. And she's not Batgirl yet, but I'm not sure if they get the character enough to make that her endgame.

She's not the first character to suddenly be relevant with little buildup as that happens to a lot of characters.

[Rac7d*]

I only like that she got some focus, that's about it.

I'm stunned that they never took any time to contrast Cass and Artemis. Batman lied about both their backgrounds to allow them to work as heroes, yet that went unremarked.

Cass crippling Babs might have worked, had it been better executed. I'm at a loss as to why Cass would be so impacted about maiming a rando who got between her and her target.

Wasn't a big fan of her inability to talk, either. Is sign language expensive to animate?

It was the action , it confused and stunned her.

Cass wasnt trained in sign language then, however she should be learning now, i hope she is also in school

[The Cool Thatguy]

It was the action , it confused and stunned her.

Cass wasnt trained in sign language then, however she should be learning now, i hope she is also in school

I can understand confused and stunned, but not to the point of defecting.

[Frontier]

And they didn't really set up well why Babs went out of her way to stop her from killing Joker (and didn't, like, throw a Batarang at her).

[Iclifton]

If I am being honest, YJ was my favorite version of Cass. I prefer my Cass to still have a problem with speech and a disability that she overcomes.

I wish comic Cass remained a mute or at least could speak very little. Sign language would be preferable.

[Iclifton]

If I am being honest, YJ was my favorite version of Cass. I prefer my Cass to still have a problem with speech and a disability that she overcomes.

I wish comic Cass remained a mute or at least could speak very little. Sign language would be preferable.

I also liked the scars. Makes sense for someone who was trained by assassins to be the ultimate killer.

[Frontier]

I don't think she should be literally unable to speak. It was a point for her character development and relationship with others that she learned how to speak.

Also the facial scars probably give her more of an excuse to wear the mask 100% of the time.