Cassandra Cain: Orphan, Black Bat, Batgirl Appreciation 2022

[Rac7d*]

Maybe we can finally excise Orphan from continuity...

Not after animation introduced her as such to the world
Unless you like the BOP cass

[Digifiend]

In the case of contradicting histories, I don't think they remember everything about both timelines. Nightwing, for example, remembers being a police officer (and having a low degree, which I think was never canon?) but Bludhaven was never bombed and Blockbuster was never killed. So it's more of a pick and choose what you take from their pre-52 histories.

They do remember being Batgirls, but returning their previous full pre-52 histories could be a bit tricky, as Steph was college-age and Cass was about Jason's age. It would probably age them considerably and make Babs mentoring them redundant. I'm also not sure it would be in their best interest, as it seems that DC wants them to be the younger and less experienced Batgirls so it would be a fresh start. The Batgirls seem to be intended for younger audiences and a starting point for new readers, so I assume that's the reason they were age down.

No it wouldn't make Babs mentoring them redundant. Babs was actually Steph's mentor in her first Batgirl run too (I've not read Cass's). And Babs is in her late 20s, so still significantly older than the other Batgirls even if Cass and Steph were restored to their pre-Flashpoint ages of, I think, 20 and 19 (Jason isn't actually much older than Tim, who was 18 pre-Flashpoint).

[Lal]

No it wouldn't make Babs mentoring them redundant. Babs was actually Steph's mentor in her first Batgirl run too (I've not read Cass's). And Babs is in her late 20s, so still significantly older than the other Batgirls even if Cass and Steph were restored to their pre-Flashpoint ages of, I think, 20 and 19 (Jason isn't actually much older than Tim, who was 18 pre-Flashpoint).

I think Jason is considered mostly Dick's generation by now. He interacts with the Titans as an equal and isn't regarded as younger than them (while Tim definitely is). I'd say his age gap from Dick is 5 years top (became Robin at 13 when Dick was Nightwing at about 18). It's possible he was aged up, but he's very clearly twenty something right now.
Anyway, as for their age - if they were both 19-20 pre flashpoint and 4 years passed since (Damian started at 10 and is now 14), it would make them mid twenties. Way too experienced to be mentored so extensively and very far from being teens that are meant to target younger audiences.
If DC return their full histories, they wouldn't need to live and be trained so intensively by Babs. It won't be like the beginning of Steph run, because Steph would now have all the experience she gained then and since, and Babs would have a more BOP relationship with them, not a full time arrangement of her telling them what to do, preparing them meals and checking when they return home. They'd know what to do and how to deal with almost all situation on their own and she would only be there for the complicated cases.
That's very different from the current direction of the book right now. I think the shift from Babs to them was exactly to tell the story of the young and less experienced Batgirls.

[Hypo]

By Huang-Jun

https://twitter.com/HuangJunArt/stat...15934130012167

[Digifiend]

I think Jason is considered mostly Dick's generation by now. He interacts with the Titans as an equal and isn't regarded as younger than them (while Tim definitely is). I'd say his age gap from Dick is 5 years top (became Robin at 13 when Dick was Nightwing at about 18). It's possible he was aged up, but he's very clearly twenty something right now.
Anyway, as for their age - if they were both 19-20 pre flashpoint and 4 years passed since (Damian started at 10 and is now 14), it would make them mid twenties. Way too experienced to be mentored so extensively and very far from being teens that are meant to target younger audiences.
If DC return their full histories, they wouldn't need to live and be trained so intensively by Babs. It won't be like the beginning of Steph run, because Steph would now have all the experience she gained then and since, and Babs would have a more BOP relationship with them, not a full time arrangement of her telling them what to do, preparing them meals and checking when they return home. They'd know what to do and how to deal with almost all situation on their own and she would only be there for the complicated cases.
That's very different from the current direction of the book right now. I think the shift from Babs to them was exactly to tell the story of the young and less experienced Batgirls.

Jason was definitely aged up when he was reintroduced as Red Hood. Also, Dick was 20 when he became Nightwing.

[Frontier]

By Huang-Jun

https://twitter.com/HuangJunArt/stat...15934130012167

Silent angel of the night .

[omnipotentimpotent]

Weirdly silent here....

[millernumber1]

Weirdly silent here....

Be the change you want to see in the thread! Lots of Cass appearances to talk about!

[Frontier]

Not after animation introduced her as such to the world
Unless you like the BOP cass

Probably the worst part about Cass in YJ is doubling-down on the Orphan name even though it brings attention to how dumb a name it is.

[AJpyro]

She should not have a sword.

Giving up the blade Shiva gave her would be the right step.

[Frontier]

She should not have a sword.

Giving up the blade Shiva gave her would be the right step.

I agree. The sword feels very out of place.

[Blight]

I agree. The sword feels very out of place.

It's a weird gimmick that they seem to give their minority characters. Tigress has how many weapons instead of the usual bow/arrow as Artemis? Cheshire uses a pair of sai. Shiva with her sword. It just makes Cass well Snake-Eyes-lite with her wielding a sword more. The crazier thing you'd think she dull the blade but nope that thing is a regular sword she wields. The true step in the right direction would her becoming Batgirl in the universe.

[Darkspellmaster]

So wait, am I reading this right. YJ is setting it up that Cass's origin is going to be tied to Bans paralyzation?

[Frontier]

It's a weird gimmick that they seem to give their minority characters. Tigress has how many weapons instead of the usual bow/arrow as Artemis? Cheshire uses a pair of sai. Shiva with her sword. It just makes Cass well Snake-Eyes-lite with her wielding a sword more. The crazier thing you'd think she dull the blade but nope that thing is a regular sword she wields. The true step in the right direction would her becoming Batgirl in the universe.

I think it's just because they're going hard on the "ninja" thing and don't seem to prioritize hand-to-hand even for the characters that are more well-known for their hand-to-hand like Shiva or Cass.

But it kind of strains credulity that the Batfamily would let her run around with a sword after what happened with Babs. Or that she'd even want to still use one.

So wait, am I reading this right. YJ is setting it up that Cass's origin is going to be tied to Bans paralyzation?

They already did.

[Agent Z]

It's a weird gimmick that they seem to give their minority characters. Tigress has how many weapons instead of the usual bow/arrow as Artemis? Cheshire uses a pair of sai. Shiva with her sword. It just makes Cass well Snake-Eyes-lite with her wielding a sword more. The crazier thing you'd think she dull the blade but nope that thing is a regular sword she wields. The true step in the right direction would her becoming Batgirl in the universe.

I don't think Tigress in the show uses any weapons aside from the bow and sword, and she only used the sword when she was working undercover. Her comic counterpart actually uses way more weapons.

But yeah, this is an issue with how Asian characters are depicted in DC and Marvel.