Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2022

[The Cool Thatguy]

The thing about Jason Aaron is he's a very, VERY good writer when he's on point.

The problem is his atheism is from an earlier brand that's not popular anymore. It's the late 90s to 2000s "edgy atheism" that guys like Richard Dawkins (anyone remember him) made popular and a lot of creators wore as badges of honor back in the day. I've mentioned him many times but Garth Ennis writes the same exact way when dealing with religion.

The problem is when dealing with the Marvel universe, it's an entirely different situation. The Marvel gods are "extradimensional beings" that were worshipped as gods (at least that was the classic handbook of the Marvel universe explanation). The gods in Marvel are extremely active in the universe and some are good and some are bad. There's really no way to draw a direct parallel between what's happening in the Marvel universe and real-world religious beliefs. That's why Aaron has to keep retconning stuff to justify his stories (his depiction of Odin being a prime example).

I think as talented as Aaron is, he should restrict his personal beliefs to his independent work. Some of his ideas don't really mesh well with the existing Marvel universe.

I honestly can't think of a time he's ever been on point, personally

[Mantis-Ray]

Didn't he write the last Punisher Max run?

[Lukmendes]

Honestly my biggest issue with the whole Gods aren't better than mortals is, who cares?

So Gods aren't better, doesn't mean mortals are any good. We're ignorant, we're violent, we're stupid, we're pathetic. When Thor said "Gods don't deserve us" I wanted to tell him "Thor its okay, we don't deserve anything."

The pro-mortal wank gets pretty annoying especially since the only difference between a God and a mortal is scale in power. And plenty of people espouse themselves Gods simply for having greater power than someone else. Mortals are petty little shits.

It gets worse how you remember how Marvel civilians are among the dumbest, like, I say they're dumber than real life people and I don't say that lightly lol.

No. His point as we see repeated in his Avenger's run is that the gods suck and humans should stop worshipping them. We don't need them and we shouldn't depend on them because they aren't helpful and neglectful at best and actively malicious at worst. Look at Avengers 1 million, the most protective members and the good members are the human members. The gods (Odin) are boorish, jerks. The Phoenix is a parasite. Moon Knight criticizes man's dependence on the gods and so on. In Aaron's comic view every god is afraid of being judged because they all are not worthy as he restated in his Avenger's issue with the Celestial.

The question went from what does it mean to be a good god and worthy to all gods are bad or unworthy except maybe Thor.

It is funny that despite all of this, it's Phoenix who decides it's important for a hero to be on Earth, and it's why she convinces Gaia to go fuck with Odin.

Aside from how it's stupid to basically treat Odin as a glorified sperm donor while putting more emphasis on Thor's "mothers" (Even though Phoenix shouldn't qualify in any way), Phoenix doing this is treated as a noble thing, which kinda contradicts Aaron's themes of gods being useless lol.

The thing about Jason Aaron is he's a very, VERY good writer when he's on point.

The problem is his atheism is from an earlier brand that's not popular anymore. It's the late 90s to 2000s "edgy atheism" that guys like Richard Dawkins (anyone remember him) made popular and a lot of creators wore as badges of honor back in the day. I've mentioned him many times but Garth Ennis writes the same exact way when dealing with religion.

The problem is when dealing with the Marvel universe, it's an entirely different situation. The Marvel gods are "extradimensional beings" that were worshipped as gods (at least that was the classic handbook of the Marvel universe explanation). The gods in Marvel are extremely active in the universe and some are good and some are bad. There's really no way to draw a direct parallel between what's happening in the Marvel universe and real-world religious beliefs. That's why Aaron has to keep retconning stuff to justify his stories (his depiction of Odin being a prime example).

I think as talented as Aaron is, he should restrict his personal beliefs to his independent work. Some of his ideas don't really mesh well with the existing Marvel universe.

The problem isn't just his attitude but the way he goes about it.

Like sure, you can dislike and find religions and gods to be worthless, but if you're going to be a professional writer, try to be respectful of the setting you're writing.

Now that doesn't mean one should completely ignore their beliefs when writing stories, different beliefs can help in developing the stories more, but his atheism and feminism just show a giant middle finger to Thor stuff, characters getting retconned to fit his ideas of gods sucking, and boy Odin probably has it worst than anyone.

He's not a good version of Marvel's Odin, 'cause while Marvel's Odin is a douche, he had other personality traits besides that, flawed, stern, arrogant, but also wise, helpful, even nice.

He's not a good adaptation of myth Odin, or even a decent one, because while myth Odin was an even bigger asshole, he was at least competent, and still was wise.

This is kinda like how God of War flanderizes gods' worst traits so Kratos has more reasons to punch 'em in the face, but at least GoW is Kratos' story with these gods as his opponents, Thor's comics have these gods as allies, and with long established personalities that aren't like what Aaron writes 'em, and they're treated like shit just because, and it's childish.

Didn't he write the last Punisher Max run?

Yes.

[Mantis-Ray]

This is kinda like how God of War flanderizes gods' worst traits so Kratos has more reasons to punch 'em in the face, but at least GoW is Kratos' story with these gods as his opponents, Thor's comics have these gods as allies, and with long established personalities that aren't like what Aaron writes 'em, and they're treated like shit just because, and it's childish.



Yes.

At least God of War's treatment of the Aesir is dignified from an antagonist standpoint. Odin's a tyrant but he's also the all knowing overlord of the land who is engaging in all sorts of plans and schemes to avert his fate in Ragnarok. Like he's an asshole sure but at least in character and it takes into account that he's the God of Wisdom.

And Thor sure he's more of a thuggish brute but he's also regarded as the absolute strongest being in the land. Everyone is terrified of him because he's basically a nuke in physical form.

Wasn't his Punisher Max well-received especially in how he ended Frank's story after battling Bullseye, Elektra, and Kingpin?

[Lukmendes]

At least God of War's treatment of the Aesir is dignified from an antagonist standpoint. Odin's a tyrant but he's also the all knowing overlord of the land who is engaging in all sorts of plans and schemes to avert his fate in Ragnarok. Like he's an asshole sure but at least in character and it takes into account that he's the God of Wisdom.

And Thor sure he's more of a thuggish brute but he's also regarded as the absolute strongest being in the land. Everyone is terrified of him because he's basically a nuke in physical form.

Yeah, while it's silly how much GoW flanderizes the worst traits (And that happened in the Greek era too), and actually makes Giants be nice guys to the point where fucking Surtr of all people is talked like he's heroic... Like you said, they're still treated as powerful threats, and keeps some basic traits from the myths.

If this were Aaron's Odin, there would be no game since he would be too drunk to have anyone hunt down Giants until Ragnarok happens, and Thor would panic the everytime he loses sight of Mjolnir .

Wasn't his Punisher Max well-received especially in how he ended Frank's story after battling Bullseye, Elektra, and Kingpin?

I do hear Punisher Max was liked, but I'm not sure if that includes Aaron's run, haven't checked out anything about it myself.

I also doubt I'll be bothering, Ennis was one of the writers in previous issues and I think he's just an edgelord, Punisher is apparently flanderized to the point he's basically just a serial killer, though that's just what I heard, but with Ennis being one of its writers it's probably true, dunno about Aaron's take though.

[kilderkin]

No. His point as we see repeated in his Avenger's run is that the gods suck and humans should stop worshipping them. We don't need them and we shouldn't depend on them because they aren't helpful and neglectful at best and actively malicious at worst. Look at Avengers 1 million, the most protective members and the good members are the human members. The gods (Odin) are boorish, jerks. The Phoenix is a parasite. Moon Knight criticizes man's dependence on the gods and so on. In Aaron's comic view every god is afraid of being judged because they all are not worthy as he restated in his Avenger's issue with the Celestial.

The question went from what does it mean to be a good god and worthy to all gods are bad or unworthy except maybe Thor.

I found this to be widespread in his writing on Thor

It was tedious at best

In my opinion

As for his use of Odin and Thor's parentage

I think that betrays an issue with father figures as a whole

Now that's just my perception of it, but I fail to see what else it could mean

I can't think of any point where he has written Odin as a loving and caring father for more than a few moments

That betrays something imo

[Sunny]

https://twitter.com/GFRobot/status/1...XdLQzh46A&s=19

Interesting...

For me, he won't be missed ����*♀

[The Cool Thatguy]

https://twitter.com/GFRobot/status/1...XdLQzh46A&s=19

Interesting...

For me, he won't be missed ����*♀

Good.

He leaned into the tone of his previous movie far too much. The action scenes were the only thing that elevated it to tolerable

[Username taken]

https://twitter.com/GFRobot/status/1...XdLQzh46A&s=19

Interesting...

For me, he won't be missed ����*♀

Good.

He leaned into the tone of his previous movie far too much. The action scenes were the only thing that elevated it to tolerable

Agreed with all of this.

Waititi didn't put his best foot forward at all with Love and Thunder.

The movie was far too indulgent and it seemed like the film makers just didn't care.

Interestingly, Love and Thunder has almost hit $750m WW. Despite the mixed reaction people still turned out to see the movie.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Agreed with all of this.

Waititi didn't put his best foot forward at all with Love and Thunder.

The movie was far too indulgent and it seemed like the film makers just didn't care.

Interestingly, Love and Thunder has almost hit $750m WW. Despite the mixed reaction people still turned out to see the movie.

No doubt, the Marvel brand is strong.

And lets be honest, we were all curious what Thor was up to after Endgame

I'm just glad Marvel movies can tell the difference between profit and quality.

I just wish the comic book industry could do the same. How many times are they gonna invite Rob back to do Deadpool?

[Panic]

Is Giant Freakin Robot really a reliable site for this sort of thing? Not saying it's not true, not saying I don't want it to be true, but until sites like Dark Horizons or Variety run with it, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

[kilderkin]

Agreed with all of this.

Waititi didn't put his best foot forward at all with Love and Thunder.

The movie was far too indulgent and it seemed like the film makers just didn't care.

Interestingly, Love and Thunder has almost hit $750m WW. Despite the mixed reaction people still turned out to see the movie.

Glad of the change

Interested to note that films getting this much in the DCEU were considered failings

I suppose TLAT is for a marvel film relatively underperforming but the comparison in response is still interesting to me

[Mantis-Ray]

Is Giant Freakin Robot really a reliable site for this sort of thing? Not saying it's not true, not saying I don't want it to be true, but until sites like Dark Horizons or Variety run with it, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

Yeah I wouldn't exactly be unhappy about this but how reputable is this site?

Is anyone else saying it?

[Daedra]

https://twitter.com/GFRobot/status/1...XdLQzh46A&s=19

Interesting...

For me, he won't be missed ����*♀

Please let it be true, please let it be for real….. after the way he even made a mockery of the CGI And considering how underpaid workers are I can’t stand him anymore

[juan678]