Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2022

[GodThor]

I have to say it's funny watching twitter debate the whole Thor name issue again. It's like it's the heyday of Aaron again .

the funniest part is when some people on Twitter try to defend it and pull out an image from 90's which they googled to prove how Thor was always a title xd

[Frontier]

I didn't mean before Aaron, I meant before Jane became Thor.

I know it happened once before she became Thor, in Original Sin, which's how Jane became Thor to begin with, I'm just wondering if it happened before that, or if Thor ever had doubts about lifting the damn hammer.

Before Jane? I don't think so. Maybe in a young Thor story, but definitely not to the same extent.

She can steal Thor's Hammer and beat him up with it like Moon Knight did too .

She'd probably joke about doing it and almost be 40% serious about it.

the funniest part is when some people on Twitter try to defend it and pull out an image from 90's which they googled to prove how Thor was always a title xd

"She has Thors' power! That totally makes her Thor even though he was literally named Thor and that's not her actual name!"

Like, if you like Jane as Thor, all power to you, but the whole name thing was ridiculous and was ultimately just denigrating to the actual Thor.

[Agent Z]

spoilers:

Thor will face Vegeta, the Prince of all Saiyans, in a Death Battle, on May 8th.

end of spoilers

[GodThor]

"She has Thors' power! That totally makes her Thor even though he was literally named Thor and that's not her actual name!"

Like, if you like Jane as Thor, all power to you, but the whole name thing was ridiculous and was ultimately just denigrating to the actual Thor.

Aaron's taint will forever stay.

I wonder what would those people say if they adapted BRB.

would those on Twitter call him Thor as well

[Frontier]

spoilers:

Thor will face Vegeta, the Prince of all Saiyans, in a Death Battle, on May 8th.

end of spoilers

I hope they acknowledge how much of a tank Thor is.

[Lukmendes]

Before Jane? I don't think so. Maybe in a young Thor story, but definitely not to the same extent.

At least young Thor would make more sense 'cause he was a douche.

"She has Thors' power! That totally makes her Thor even though he was literally named Thor and that's not her actual name!"

Like, if you like Jane as Thor, all power to you, but the whole name thing was ridiculous and was ultimately just denigrating to the actual Thor.

I don't even know why Marvel decided to go for that nonsense, like, sure, Thor's powers aren't exclusive to him if Thunderstrike back when he was Thor, and Beta Ray Bill are any hint (Plus whenever someone used the hammer), but, y'know, Thor is himself, not a title lol.

Maybe at some point it would've been better if the hammer was retconned to not have its powers be utilized by about anyone who's "worthy", or make the powers belong only to Thor and the hammer helps control 'em better, or enhance 'em, or somethin' like that, that way Marvel might not undermine him so much, but they'd probably find a way anyways lol.

spoilers:

Thor will face Vegeta, the Prince of all Saiyans, in a Death Battle, on May 8th.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Can't wait for Thor to lose his hammer and become useless right away

end of spoilers

[Frontier]

At least young Thor would make more sense 'cause he was a douche.

Not as much of one as Aaron wrote him as.

I don't even know why Marvel decided to go for that nonsense, like, sure, Thor's powers aren't exclusive to him if Thunderstrike back when he was Thor, and Beta Ray Bill are any hint (Plus whenever someone used the hammer), but, y'know, Thor is himself, not a title lol.

Maybe at some point it would've been better if the hammer was retconned to not have its powers be utilized by about anyone who's "worthy", or make the powers belong only to Thor and the hammer helps control 'em better, or enhance 'em, or somethin' like that, that way Marvel might not undermine him so much, but they'd probably find a way anyways lol.

And it wasn't even really a positive thing, he was just giving his name and identity to this random woman who his hammer seems to love more than him and seems more capable than him while he's having a mental crisis that, frankly, I'm not convinced he ever 100% recovered from. And for a decent period of time he's stuck as a shirtless hobo who swings an axe around but barely accomplishes anything and whom everyone starts calling by his last name like it's the most natural thing in the world.

[Lukmendes]

Whenever I read Aaron's writing, I'm picturing a bad heavy metal guitar riff going off in his head, like someone is playing an off key cover of Eddie Van Halen's eruption (may he rest in peace) Something that's supposed to sound good, but isn't. In his avengers, Ghost Rider takes control of a dead celestial, that should be cool, but it's not.

The prehistoric avengers should be cool, but they aren't, the avengers fighting vampires, getting caught up in a superpowered arms race should be cool, but it isn't. The avengers fighting an evil brainwashed version of the Justice League should be cool, but it's not. Describing the book is more fun than actually reading it.

The stuff you described does sound fun, which makes it pretty baffling he managed to make it boring, 'cause super-heroes at their core, if they're going wacky, they really should be fun with the nonsense lol.

Not as much of one as Aaron wrote him as.

Sure, but he still was bad enough that Odin made him reincarnate as a human to learn humility to begin with, so maybe he at some point wasn't able to lift it lol.

Thinking of it, it's pretty bizarre Odin did that with Thor but not Loki... Well, unless he did and it didn't work, so Loki was imprisoned in a tree instead lol.

And it wasn't even really a positive thing, he was just giving his name and identity to this random woman who his hammer seems to love more than him and seems more capable than him while he's having a mental crisis that, frankly, I'm not convinced he ever 100% recovered from. And for a decent period of time he's stuck as a shirtless hobo who swings an axe around but barely accomplishes anything and whom everyone starts calling by his last name like it's the most natural thing in the world.

I'll never stop finding it stupid that Mjolnir became a dumbass with an opinion lol.

But yeah, Jane has a protagonist centered morality there, where everything else being screwed in her favor isn't a problem 'cause she's happy in the end, which's something super-heroes have a lot, but it's more noticeable with her since she screws over established characters to look better far more lol.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Jane as Thor had potential, if Aaron had any understanding of Thor's place in the MU, and didn't use it as a vehicle to express his atheism

[Username taken]

The thing about Jason Aaron on Thor and why so many fans have problems with it goes beyond just turning Jane into Thor for 4 years. He's fundamentally changed Thor and Odin and not really for the better.

For example:

1. Odin is now an alcoholic, lying, drunken, sexist jerk. This isn't the same Odin that sacrificed his eye for wisdom, this is an overly humanized buffoonish caricature of what the character used to be. Odin has always operated within shades of grey but he was always fairly upright.
2. Thor is a cheater. Honestly, people need to go back and read the old Thor comics, he was so much in love with Sif that I wonder why he's not with her anymore. Even as recent as Fraction he was still with Sif. Even when he had his relationship with Jane (who was really a poor man's Lois Lane back then), Thor always carried himself with honor. I wonder at what point he cheated around.
3. Odin has pretty much lied to Thor his entire life. The whole "Mother Storm" thing is a massive retcon and I can chalk it up to the "feminist push" that Aaron was putting into the comics. Don't get me wrong, I'm as liberal as they come but that doesn't mean I won't point out cringe when I see it.
4. Mjolnir's worthiness isn't really because of Odin's enchantments. This basically means that a ton of Thor stories in the past have just been altered because of that singular retcon.
5. Thor is tied to the Phoenix. Like I mentioned earlier, Aaron loves the firebird. In his Spider-man/Wolverine story, the Phoenix was involved, in his Thor run, King Thor fought a "Wolverine Phoenix". And all these years Thor never knew of this. I really do wonder what tying Thor's origin to the Phoenix really does.
6. Jane Foster is basically everything Thor is not. Jane was treated as a "paragon of virtue" that was sooooooooo good that she might have well been a new character entirely. This is where Aaron's atheism and general anti-deism got the better of him. He really did write Jane like he detested divine beings and the comic seemed to be subtly pushing a brand of "secular humanism". Needless to say, this is the last thing that one wants to see in a Thor title.

The crazy thing about this is that Aaron's Thor was insanely entertaining. No matter how you look at it, the comics were well written and the art was magnificent throughout (especially when Jane was Thor) the problem was the ideas and concepts have permanently altered Thor and his mythos and not really for the better.

[Frontier]

The thing about Jason Aaron on Thor and why so many fans have problems with it goes beyond just turning Jane into Thor for 4 years. He's fundamentally changed Thor and Odin and not really for the better.

For example:

1. Odin is now an alcoholic, lying, drunken, sexist jerk. This isn't the same Odin that sacrificed his eye for wisdom, this is an overly humanized buffoonish caricature of what the character used to be. Odin has always operated within shades of grey but he was always fairly upright.
2. Thor is a cheater. Honestly, people need to go back and read the old Thor comics, he was so much in love with Sif that I wonder why he's not with her anymore. Even as recent as Fraction he was still with Sif. Even when he had his relationship with Jane (who was really a poor man's Lois Lane back then), Thor always carried himself with honor. I wonder at what point he cheated around.
3. Odin has pretty much lied to Thor his entire life. The whole "Mother Storm" thing is a massive retcon and I can chalk it up to the "feminist push" that Aaron was putting into the comics. Don't get me wrong, I'm as liberal as they come but that doesn't mean I won't point out cringe when I see it.
4. Mjolnir's worthiness isn't really because of Odin's enchantments. This basically means that a ton of Thor stories in the past have just been altered because of that singular retcon.
5. Thor is tied to the Phoenix. Like I mentioned earlier, Aaron loves the firebird. In his Spider-man/Wolverine story, the Phoenix was involved, in his Thor run, King Thor fought a "Wolverine Phoenix". And all these years Thor never knew of this. I really do wonder what tying Thor's origin to the Phoenix really does.
6. Jane Foster is basically everything Thor is not. Jane was treated as a "paragon of virtue" that was sooooooooo good that she might have well been a new character entirely. This is where Aaron's atheism and general anti-deism got the better of him. He really did write Jane like he detested divine beings and the comic seemed to be subtly pushing a brand of "secular humanism". Needless to say, this is the last thing that one wants to see in a Thor title.

The crazy thing about this is that Aaron's Thor was insanely entertaining. No matter how you look at it, the comics were well written and the art was magnificent throughout (especially when Jane was Thor) the problem was the ideas and concepts have permanently altered Thor and his mythos and not really for the better.

The way Aaron characterized Odin it's hard for me to believe that he hadn't been deposed or there hadn't been constant Asgardian rebellions prior, because of how terrible he was. Like what if this was the Odin we had during the Simonson run? And then Aaron said at the end he had some kind of Asgardian alzheimers (and Thor eventually puts him out of his misery) which was the least effective saving throw ever.

Aaron never properly followed up on that "dalliances" comment. He just throws it out that Thor cheated on Jane and uses it to make him come off like an a-hole belittling the poor woman who is the real hero of this story.

I think what gets me is that Aaron knocks Thor down a peg so much but fails to be even-handed when it comes to Jane. Thors' inherent nobility, competency, and heroism is stripped away and Jane Foster is turned into the greatest Thor that ever Thor'd, so much so that Thor doesn't even really earn his own name back, Jane basically just gives it back to him because she can't be Thor anymore, and the implication being that she's still a better at being a Thor or more deserving of being Thor...than Thor. And Jane is so utterly perfect and beyond reproach that that was the only way Aaron could think to bring back the actual protagonist of the book and it's more or less a conciliation prize.

And the whole issue of "Worthiness." Where Thor is struck down by a single whisper of Nick Fury's personal opinion that somehow absolutely humbles Thor when it makes no sense, and then Jane can lift the hammer, and then there's all this debate about Worthiness and Aaron can never seem to put down an effective explanation for what exactly makes one Worthy. And in the end Thor just says "well, no one is really worthy...you just have to try hard!" like, c'mon.

[Username taken]

The way Aaron characterized Odin it's hard for me to believe that he hadn't been deposed or there hadn't been constant Asgardian rebellions prior, because of how terrible he was. Like what if this was the Odin we had during the Simonson run? And then Aaron said at the end he had some kind of Asgardian alzheimers (and Thor eventually puts him out of his misery) which was the least effective saving throw ever.

Aaron never properly followed up on that "dalliances" comment. He just throws it out that Thor cheated on Jane and uses it to make him come off like an a-hole belittling the poor woman who is the real hero of this story.

I think what gets me is that Aaron knocks Thor down a peg so much but fails to be even-handed when it comes to Jane. Thors' inherent nobility, competency, and heroism is stripped away and Jane Foster is turned into the greatest Thor that ever Thor'd, so much so that Thor doesn't even really earn his own name back, Jane basically just gives it back to him because she can't be Thor anymore, and the implication being that she's still a better at being a Thor or more deserving of being Thor...than Thor. And Jane is so utterly perfect and beyond reproach that that was the only way Aaron could think to bring back the actual protagonist of the book and it's more or less a conciliation prize.

And the whole issue of "Worthiness." Where Thor is struck down by a single whisper of Nick Fury's personal opinion that somehow absolutely humbles Thor when it makes no sense, and then Jane can lift the hammer, and then there's all this debate about Worthiness and Aaron can never seem to put down an effective explanation for what exactly makes one Worthy. And in the end Thor just says "well, no one is really worthy...you just have to try hard!" like, c'mon.

Yeah, her run as Thor basically ended because she destroyed the hammer. Thor never actually got back Mjolnir from Jane....why??

It's like Aaron fell in so much in love with Jane and built her up so much that there was no conceivable way for Thor to get his hammer back.

The way Thor even lost his hammer was stupid and it also ignores decades of continuity. Thor (and Odin) have sacrificed so much for Asgard, Earth and the universe that the whole thing about "Gorr being right" just rings hollow.

[Overhazard]

Yeah, her run as Thor basically ended because she destroyed the hammer. Thor never actually got back Mjolnir from Jane....why??

It's like Aaron fell in so much in love with Jane and built her up so much that there was no conceivable way for Thor to get his hammer back.

The way Thor even lost his hammer was stupid and it also ignores decades of continuity. Thor (and Odin) have sacrificed so much for Asgard, Earth and the universe that the whole thing about "Gorr being right" just rings hollow.

It seems that Aaron is a lot like Bendis in that he comes up with good ideas but his execution leaves a lot to be desired. Why would Thor care so much about the opinions of Gorr, who is the cosmic equivalent of a 14 year old terminally online reddit atheist, or Nick Fury for that matter? Why would he care about what the hammer thinks, he's done way too much good to know that he's worthy. Why is the hammer even alive in the first place? If he's really the son of the phoenix, why has he never used fire or psychic powers?

Aaron really didn't have a plan, his run gets a lot of praise for being progressive when it wasn't. There was nothing toxically masculine about Thor other than the fact that he liked fighting, and even that's pushing it. He didn't start acting like himself again until he got the hammer back, his source of external validation. Jane didn't do anything he wouldn't have done, so women can only succeed when they emulate men?

[Frontier]

It seems that Aaron is a lot like Bendis in that he comes up with good ideas but his execution leaves a lot to be desired. Why would Thor care so much about the opinions of Gorr, who is the cosmic equivalent of a 14 year old terminally online reddit atheist, or Nick Fury for that matter? Why would he care about what the hammer thinks, he's done way too much good to know that he's worthy. Why is the hammer even alive in the first place? If he's really the son of the phoenix, why has he never used fire or psychic powers?

Aaron really didn't have a plan, his run gets a lot of praise for being progressive when it wasn't. There was nothing toxically masculine about Thor other than the fact that he liked fighting, and even that's pushing it. He didn't start acting like himself again until he got the hammer back, his source of external validation. Jane didn't do anything he wouldn't have done, so women can only succeed when they emulate men?

Better than a woman who uses a female descriptor in their name, which seems like it's unpopular now. Especially if you ask Jane Foster about She-Hulk's name. You'd think a true feminist wouldn't judge another woman's' choice of name, but we're also talking about a run where Titania knocks her husband out and gives Jane an easy win out of some kind of weird sense of female respect (that made no sense for Titania).

I get that they probably couldn't have Thor visibly surpass Jane or be depicted as being better than her, but at the very least Aaron could have shown what Thor brought to the table with his actual identity and title of God of Thunder that Jane didn't...unless the fact that Jane basically turned into him was supposed to show that even if everyone just treated it like it was all Jane.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Better than a woman who uses a female descriptor in their name, which seems like it's unpopular now. Especially if you ask Jane Foster about She-Hulk's name. You'd think a true feminist wouldn't judge another woman's' choice of name, but we're also talking about a run where Titania knocks her husband out and gives Jane an easy win out of some kind of weird sense of female respect (that made no sense for Titania).

I get that they probably couldn't have Thor visibly surpass Jane or be depicted as being better than her, but at the very least Aaron could have shown what Thor brought to the table with his actual identity and title of God of Thunder that Jane didn't...unless the fact that Jane basically turned into him was supposed to show that even if everyone just treated it like it was all Jane.

I think much of the reception to Jane Thor was an over-correction to a long Marvel issue. The utter lack of a strong, female character in Marvel, who isn't tied to a male hero.

She-Hulk, Carol et all are not bad characters, but all owe their origins to male characters. How is it we're in 2020s without one yet?

Aaron might be regarded as a feminist, but the scene with Titania demonstrates his short comings.

Equality isn't Skeeter taking a fall, but instead fighting her just as she would any man.

Also, it's Titania, and beating her ass isn't some great accomplishment.