Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2022

[The Cool Thatguy]

Bill provides a very interesting counterpart to Gorr and Jane cause he is a mortal who managed to gain the powers of other Gods.

Some key differences though

His world was ravaged by demons and the devil Surtur. He was empowered by Odin. And interestingly while he doesn't worship Gods cause he finds the idea of worship "obscene" he takes a more existentialist approach to it, "If there is nothing but what we make in this world, brothers... let us make good."

He doesn't care that Gods suck, what matters is doing good and that is what defines him from someone like Gorr who just basks in his misery like a jerk

There is no interesting counterpart to Gorr, because is little more than a bigot with a racist plan.

To be clear, Gorr is a racist in the same way that a tomato is a fruit, only in the most technical sense . His hatred is against a class of people who don't exist and don't stand as a metaphor for any real people (outside of Aaron's religion bashing, that is).

Aaron is just horrible in all the symbolism he attempts, really.

In X-Men, he has old, institutional evil (Hellfire Club) represented by a bunch of puppy kicking pre-teens.

In Avengers, to tell the story of the evils and explorations of illegal immigration, he used a WASP, going into space. Because if there's one thing Marvel needs more of, it's superpowered blond women.

As if it relates to this thread, Aaron punishes Thor and Odin relentlessly for toxic masculinity, while lavishing love and praise on Punisher (also, treating torture as a viable training method in Avengers Forever).

Which is why I'm convinced that Aaron's story will fade in time. It won't withstand a critical examination absent the incels who can't stand any female characters whining about it, or slightly less terrible critics complaining that it's 'woke' and how awful that is, etc.

Sadly, very few if any of the Jane Thor stories spoke to Jane as a character. Other than he being mad at Loki for attacking her as a mortal or Odin not liking her as girlfriend material, I can't think of any (if I'm wrong, please tell me so). Remember when Thor had a list of female characters, and was simply marking them off one by one because he had nothing else to go on?

Yeah, that was pretty much Aaron's entire run.

And the less said about his take on feminism (that terrible scene with Titania), the better.

I've compared his run to Joe Casey's Wildcats, which received high critical praise at the time, but has now been forgotten. That's because it had some impressively deep flaws (repetitive story telling, and, oh yeah, the supposed moral compass was a RAPIST) that people overlooked simply because it was trying something new.

[Frontier]

Sadly, very few if any of the Jane Thor stories spoke to Jane as a character. Other than he being mad at Loki for attacking her as a mortal or Odin not liking her as girlfriend material, I can't think of any (if I'm wrong, please tell me so). Remember when Thor had a list of female characters, and was simply marking them off one by one because he had nothing else to go on?

Well she was a doctor (which I think came up) and she was battling cancer...although her dead family didn't come up until, like, literally the last minute.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well she was a doctor (which I think came up) and she was battling cancer...although her dead family didn't come up until, like, literally the last minute.

Cancer is like the common cold with super hero hangers on, everyone gets it

[kilderkin]

I do think JA wrote the worst possible version of Odin he could and put negatives into Thor's character (such as his supposed dalliances when with Jane ) which weren't there before


I'm curious, what did people think of the banner of war hulk Thor story

Is it worth me getting?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I do think JA wrote the worst possible version of Odin he could and put negatives into Thor's character (such as his supposed dalliances when with Jane ) which weren't there before


I'm curious, what did people think of the banner of war hulk Thor story

Is it worth me getting?

Nopes.

Cates IMO has a far superior grasp of who Thor is, than Aaron ever did.

But his ability to execute that grasp is...lacking

[kilderkin]

Nopes.

Cates IMO has a far superior grasp of who Thor is, than Aaron ever did.

But his ability to execute that grasp is...lacking

I do get what you mean with Cates

Thanks for the tip

��

[Mantis-Ray]

There is no interesting counterpart to Gorr, because is little more than a bigot with a racist plan.

To be clear, Gorr is a racist in the same way that a tomato is a fruit, only in the most technical sense . His hatred is against a class of people who don't exist and don't stand as a metaphor for any real people (outside of Aaron's religion bashing, that is).

Aaron is just horrible in all the symbolism he attempts, really.

In X-Men, he has old, institutional evil (Hellfire Club) represented by a bunch of puppy kicking pre-teens.

In Avengers, to tell the story of the evils and explorations of illegal immigration, he used a WASP, going into space. Because if there's one thing Marvel needs more of, it's superpowered blond women.

As if it relates to this thread, Aaron punishes Thor and Odin relentlessly for toxic masculinity, while lavishing love and praise on Punisher (also, treating torture as a viable training method in Avengers Forever).

Which is why I'm convinced that Aaron's story will fade in time. It won't withstand a critical examination absent the incels who can't stand any female characters whining about it, or slightly less terrible critics complaining that it's 'woke' and how awful that is, etc.

Sadly, very few if any of the Jane Thor stories spoke to Jane as a character. Other than he being mad at Loki for attacking her as a mortal or Odin not liking her as girlfriend material, I can't think of any (if I'm wrong, please tell me so). Remember when Thor had a list of female characters, and was simply marking them off one by one because he had nothing else to go on?

Yeah, that was pretty much Aaron's entire run.

And the less said about his take on feminism (that terrible scene with Titania), the better.

I've compared his run to Joe Casey's Wildcats, which received high critical praise at the time, but has now been forgotten. That's because it had some impressively deep flaws (repetitive story telling, and, oh yeah, the supposed moral compass was a RAPIST) that people overlooked simply because it was trying something new.

I have thought of a couple story ideas that kinda take the piss out of Gorr's whole thing plus lines ribbing the whole "Gorr is right" and "Thor is Thor".

First is a Bill story where he faces off against Gorr, and it ends with Bill truly despising Gorr. Regarding him as nothing more than a murderous lunatic and sack of **** who hurt his brother. To that effect Bill simply tells Gorr "I hate you Gorr."

Another one is a sort of Asura's Wrath esque tail where a berserker Thor rampages across the universe to battle evil God versions of Marvel villains. And when he faces a Gorr who has pretty much lost his mind, he rambles about how "Gorr is right" and all that, to which Thor plainly responds with "I don't care!"

Basically the intent is to fully state that Gorr is full of **** and to deny the idea that he has anything even remotely resembling the barest bits of validity. As Bill would put, all that happened so long ago it doesn't really matter anymore, all that matters now is that Gorr is a horrible monster from head to toe.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I have thought of a couple story ideas that kinda take the piss out of Gorr's whole thing plus lines ribbing the whole "Gorr is right" and "Thor is Thor".

First is a Bill story where he faces off against Gorr, and it ends with Bill truly despising Gorr. Regarding him as nothing more than a murderous lunatic and sack of **** who hurt his brother. To that effect Bill simply tells Gorr "I hate you Gorr."

Another one is a sort of Asura's Wrath esque tail where a berserker Thor rampages across the universe to battle evil God versions of Marvel villains. And when he faces a Gorr who has pretty much lost his mind, he rambles about how "Gorr is right" and all that, to which Thor plainly responds with "I don't care!"

Basically the intent is to fully state that Gorr is full of **** and to deny the idea that he has anything even remotely resembling the barest bits of validity. As Bill would put, all that happened so long ago it doesn't really matter anymore, all that matters now is that Gorr is a horrible monster from head to toe.

In terms of internal logic, Gorr was always full of crap.

That line was said to freakin' Thor, a founding Avenger. How many times would reality have been destroyed or conquered without them?

[Agent Z]

In terms of internal logic, Gorr was always full of crap.

That line was said to freakin' Thor, a founding Avenger. How many times would reality have been destroyed or conquered without them?

Sorry, what are you referring to in the last part?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Sorry, what are you referring to in the last part?

Thor helped found the most important team of heroes in the Marvel universe.

That alone should be enough to rebuke Gorr's stance.

[Agent Z]

To be clear, Gorr is a racist in the same way that a tomato is a fruit, only in the most technical sense . His hatred is against a class of people who don't exist and don't stand as a metaphor for any real people (outside of Aaron's religion bashing, that is).

Couldn't gods be seen as representing the elite or ruling class who are oblivious to the harm their actions or inaction cause to others?

Aaron is just horrible in all the symbolism he attempts, really.

In X-Men, he has old, institutional evil (Hellfire Club) represented by a bunch of puppy kicking pre-teens.

If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say what Aaron was going for the idea that these institutions are further reinforced due to certain people being into privileged positions that they take advantage.

The execution is another story.

[Frontier]

Couldn't gods be seen as representing the elite or ruling class who are oblivious to the harm their actions or inaction cause to others?

If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say what Aaron was going for the idea that these institutions are further reinforced due to certain people being into privileged positions that they take advantage.

The execution is another story.

I'm not sure if that's the right approach to take in the MU when gods are so often involved with and aiding humanity.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Couldn't gods be seen as representing the elite or ruling class who are oblivious to the harm their actions or inaction cause to others?



If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say what Aaron was going for the idea that these institutions are further reinforced due to certain people being into privileged positions that they take advantage.

The execution is another story.

Given that, in general, the ruling elite rule with money, and are just as human as anyone else, I'd say no.

Any writer can make any type of character a stand in for something else (or try).

Aaron, with Gods, didn't try.

And with the Hellfire Club, he undermines his message by using preteens who's dialogue is impossible to take seriously.

[Username taken]

I'm not sure if that's the right approach to take in the MU when gods are so often involved with and aiding humanity.

Yeah, especially Thor that has for years decided to live on Earth and protect it.

That’s where I take issue with Aaron’s writing. It ignores too much of what came before.

He started off the run asking the question about what makes a “good god”, but somewhere along the line he seems to have decided that Thor and the others weren’t “good gods”. If he was writing an alternative universe take on Thor and the Asgardians that could work but this approach simply doesn’t line up with what’s come before.

It’s not contradictory to continuity it’s inconsistent which is a grave storytelling mistake in on-going narratives.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

That's the biggest problem with Aaron is that he has an idea and just forces it into the story with no time to develop or properly use it. As The Cool said, the same problem is with the Hellfire kids. As a concept they make sense as foils for the Jean Grey School. The school is supposed to be a safe place where the kids can grow up without fighting and be the best version of themselves. Aka Good people and selfless heroes. The Hellfire are the opposite. They're evil kids who are selfish. Not a bad idea. Just executed horribly.

His Thor run is the same. What does it mean to be worthy and a good god? But his atheism is just too strong apparently and so the execution sucks. So every god is evil and a bastard even though in the MU we have plenty benevolent gods who want to do right by humans. And he is really blunt with it. In his Avengers every god/celestial is unworthy and a bastard who shouldn't be worshipped because they suck. (Which is going to be a problem when it's Agamotto turn to be written as a Strange fan). And the book will keep bringing this up. Constantly.

It's like with Odin. Traditionally, he can be a jerk but he is the god of wisdom. You would never get that from Aaron's Odin. He is an oaf. A buffoon. A fool. A blight onto the universe rather than the dude who did everything he can to stop Raganrok. How does this work with the other depictions? Who cares? He has a story to tell so it doesn't matter. His Avenger run is full of this type of logic. To the point it's not interesting but exhausting. Other writers have used the same themes as Aaron but better because they can focus and actually work on it unlike his brute force approach to story telling.