Phoenix-Mother Askani: Rachel Summers Appreciation 2022

[Drexelhand]

I love Rachel from inception but...her "You love him more than me!" - that entire panel, in context of what she said just prior, makes no damn sense. And I get she was overwrought with emotions but, guuurrl...

I mean, a large part of that is that baby Cable also represents the family that she wants. That's why when she's with Franklin and baby Cable, she takes a moment to note that they make a perfect nuclear family. You can't say the panel makes no sense with context and then say you get she was overwrought when her being overwrought IS the context.

Agreed, so weird. She worked past all this in Uncanny when she made that psychic link with baby Nathan, and in Excalibur after Inferno, she's happy that Jean, Scott and Nathan are together...then regresses to a sad abandoned child when her dead boyfriend appears. But I guess if your former abuser (Ahab) pops up in your life, that could be triggering?

Franklin's return didn't make her regress, facing Ahab and being brutal against his Hounds and being rejected by Jean made her regress.

I agree that DoFPresent is a pivotal moment for Rachel about confronting her past, it just seems out of place when the story arc happened, she progressed so far by that point with starting a new path. From what I understand, DoFPresent was adapted from a storyline that was supposed to be the Phoenix Limited Series. Having that story then, when she abandons the X-Men, goes to Mojoverse to reinvent herself then push towards the formation of Excalibur/Omniverse/Necrom/Merlin story...if DoFPresent was just a mojoverse production, over-the-top entertainment in between these event...it would have worked better for me.

We wouldn't have all those hilarious Jean being abusive to Rachel memes though.

No, you're wrong about that. Days of Future Present was originally going to be a story that heavily featured Caliban and Senator Kelly, likely it would have featured his assassination in a manner similar to how it originally was to set up the idea that the Shadow King was going to bring about the Days of Future Past. I don't know what role Rachel and Franklin would have played in it but Liefeld was using it to prop up the planned Mutant Wars crossover. The Phoenix Limited Series was cancelled, although I think Claremont might adapt it in the next volume of X-Men Legends if that cover and his desires are anything to go by.

Besides, the point is that in spite of how far she progressed in Excalibur, she never actually confronted Jean, got to face Ahab or came to terms with what happened to Franklin. Maybe who she had become in Excalibur at that time could handle one of those things, but all of them? To expect her to stand tall and confident in the face of it all would reduce her as a character by making her too perfect. What makes Rachel great is her characterization.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I mean, a large part of that is that baby Cable also represents the family that she wants. That's why when she's with Franklin and baby Cable, she takes a moment to note that they make a perfect nuclear family. You can't say the panel makes no sense with context and then say you get she was overwrought when her being overwrought IS the context.



Franklin's return didn't make her regress, facing Ahab and being brutal against his Hounds and being rejected by Jean made her regress.



No, you're wrong about that. Days of Future Present was originally going to be a story that heavily featured Caliban and Senator Kelly, likely it would have featured his assassination in a manner similar to how it originally was to set up the idea that the Shadow King was going to bring about the Days of Future Past. I don't know what role Rachel and Franklin would have played in it but Liefeld was using it to prop up the planned Mutant Wars crossover. The Phoenix Limited Series was cancelled, although I think Claremont might adapt it in the next volume of X-Men Legends if that cover and his desires are anything to go by.

Besides, the point is that in spite of how far she progressed in Excalibur, she never actually confronted Jean, got to face Ahab or came to terms with what happened to Franklin. Maybe who she had become in Excalibur at that time could handle one of those things, but all of them? To expect her to stand tall and confident in the face of it all would reduce her as a character by making her too perfect. What makes Rachel great is her characterization.

She confronted Jean in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14 (or whichever was Ahab and Gambit's first appearance).

[Micabe]

Living her best Sapphic life over in KoX...

'Ya just had to remind me I recently bought and read Knights of X #4, didn't you

[Drexelhand]

She confronted Jean in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14 (or whichever was Ahab and Gambit's first appearance).

Yeah, that's Days of Future Present.

[cam18]

IIRC... Wasn't that Rachel Summers image; Rachel's body being piloted by the Phoenix Force?

It might have been its been a while since I read it I just remember the art being beautiful and it kind of captured briefly what a spectacle like that would really be like.

[Subliminal]

...No, you're wrong about that. Days of Future Present was originally going to be a story that heavily featured Caliban and Senator Kelly, likely it would have featured his assassination in a manner similar to how it originally was to set up the idea that the Shadow King was going to bring about the Days of Future Past. I don't know what role Rachel and Franklin would have played in it but Liefeld was using it to prop up the planned Mutant Wars crossover. The Phoenix Limited Series was cancelled, although I think Claremont might adapt it in the next volume of X-Men Legends if that cover and his desires are anything to go by...

I was reading something about the Phoenix LS in old Marvel Age previews... Not sure if you can post links to other sites here... there's a site that documents this. From what I've seen of Leonardi's preliminary pencils it looks like it was about Rachel in the Mojoverse with Franklin Richards.

What Claremont said about the LS "...It's about Phoenix discovering who she is, what she is and why she is and discovering her origin. It is a much more psychologically oriented series than most."

What Rick Leonardi said "...it dealt with Rachel and her relationship with Franklin Richards and the Power Pack. The going logic at the time was that it got too complicated with past/present/future continuity and was subsequently shelved with I believe less than an issue having been penciled. That’s the whole story, folks, wish I had better news to report but it seems that this project was no where near completion before it was killed."

If the LS actually happened, it would be a great transition towards adulthood for Rachel, leaving behind trauma and teen romances. We wouldn't have Ahab being the personification of government oppression, mutant hatred and all-around creepy child predator, but overall I find him to be an uninteresting villain. Jean could have just picked up that holempathic crystal at her mom's house to 'know' Rachel...

[Thirteen]

IIRC... Wasn't that Rachel Summers image; Rachel's body being piloted by the Phoenix Force?

Yes. The Alan Davis drawn Phoenix vs Galactus was the PForce piloting Rachel's body while her psyche recovered.
IIRC the only time Real Rachel faced off with Galactus was back in EXCALIBUR #25 where Ray trounces Herald Nova...repeatedly.

[Devaishwarya]

I was reading something about the Phoenix LS in old Marvel Age previews... Not sure if you can post links to other sites here... there's a site that documents this. From what I've seen of Leonardi's preliminary pencils it looks like it was about Rachel in the Mojoverse with Franklin Richards.

What Claremont said about the LS "...It's about Phoenix discovering who she is, what she is and why she is and discovering her origin. It is a much more psychologically oriented series than most."

What Rick Leonardi said "...it dealt with Rachel and her relationship with Franklin Richards and the Power Pack. The going logic at the time was that it got too complicated with past/present/future continuity and was subsequently shelved with I believe less than an issue having been penciled. That’s the whole story, folks, wish I had better news to report but it seems that this project was no where near completion before it was killed."

If the LS actually happened, it would be a great transition towards adulthood for Rachel, leaving behind trauma and teen romances. We wouldn't have Ahab being the personification of government oppression, mutant hatred and all-around creepy child predator, but overall I find him to be an uninteresting villain. Jean could have just picked up that holempathic crystal at her mom's house to 'know' Rachel...

Since they're on this Legends/nostalgia kick it would be very coolz to revisit that LS with Leonardi.

[Drexelhand]

I was reading something about the Phoenix LS in old Marvel Age previews... Not sure if you can post links to other sites here... there's a site that documents this. From what I've seen of Leonardi's preliminary pencils it looks like it was about Rachel in the Mojoverse with Franklin Richards.

What Claremont said about the LS "...It's about Phoenix discovering who she is, what she is and why she is and discovering her origin. It is a much more psychologically oriented series than most."

What Rick Leonardi said "...it dealt with Rachel and her relationship with Franklin Richards and the Power Pack. The going logic at the time was that it got too complicated with past/present/future continuity and was subsequently shelved with I believe less than an issue having been penciled. That’s the whole story, folks, wish I had better news to report but it seems that this project was no where near completion before it was killed."

If the LS actually happened, it would be a great transition towards adulthood for Rachel, leaving behind trauma and teen romances. We wouldn't have Ahab being the personification of government oppression, mutant hatred and all-around creepy child predator, but overall I find him to be an uninteresting villain. Jean could have just picked up that holempathic crystal at her mom's house to 'know' Rachel...

Yes, I know. The Phoenix limited series would have covered Rachel's childhood, we know that much from the pages drawn by Leonardi that we've seen. The closest we got to that in Days of Future Present was Franklin's view of their childhood. I wouldn't be surprised if Claremont was partially inspired by it for Days of Future Present, but both stories are very much different.

It is odd, because Claremont wrote Excalibur as if he already did the Phoenix Limited Series. Given Rachel's appearance on the cover of X-Men Legends Vol 2 1, I have a feeling that Claremont's arc, which will likely be after his time on Gambit and his X-Treme miniseries are done, may just be a reunion with Leonardi doing that.

[Subliminal]

...but both stories are very much different....
...It is odd, because Claremont wrote Excalibur as if he already did the Phoenix Limited Series...

Agreed, different stories. Sounds like the Phoenix LS had Rachel physically going into different timelines, past and future. Good to see her time powers being used. When I saw this unpublished art by Leonardi... I was confused. How could Rachel be at the lighthouse and at Braddock Manor with Meggan before Excalibur even formed?

106774638_10158226714850395_2246104022306803941_n.jpg
phoenix p07 publish.jpg

[Drexelhand]

Agreed, different stories. Sounds like the Phoenix LS had Rachel physically going into different timelines, past and future. Good to see her time powers being used. When I saw this unpublished art by Leonardi... I was confused. How could Rachel be at the lighthouse and at Braddock Manor with Meggan before Excalibur even formed?

106774638_10158226714850395_2246104022306803941_n.jpg
phoenix p07 publish.jpg

Obviously there's no real answer given that Claremont and Leonardi aren't going to tell us the page by page synopsis, but I would speculate that it had something to do with Mojo making programming of Rachel's life, maybe trying to tie her into the Britain side of things and that being why Kitty started dreaming of her - as seen in the Excalibur special and X-Men Legends Vol 1 12.

[Scott402]

Obviously there's no real answer given that Claremont and Leonardi aren't going to tell us the page by page synopsis, but I would speculate that it had something to do with Mojo making programming of Rachel's life, maybe trying to tie her into the Britain side of things and that being why Kitty started dreaming of her - as seen in the Excalibur special and X-Men Legends Vol 1 12.

Man we missed a lot with that mini series never getting done. Rachel in Mojoverse is something I would have loved to have seen. The character growth would have been fantastic.

[Askani's Flame]

Obviously there's no real answer given that Claremont and Leonardi aren't going to tell us the page by page synopsis, but I would speculate that it had something to do with Mojo making programming of Rachel's life, maybe trying to tie her into the Britain side of things and that being why Kitty started dreaming of her - as seen in the Excalibur special and X-Men Legends Vol 1 12.

I mean, we know why Kitty was seeing the Phoenix image and getting dreams of Rachel: Roma. She set things in motion, some the same time the other X-Men were working with her.

I agree I would love to see what happened to Rachel when she was brought to the Mojoverse. It felt like an important time (so much so we were getting a mini) that was left blank and then they tossed her back to form Excalibur.

[Askani's Flame]

So, the more I think about KoX #4 and it's implications for Rachel moving forward, what do we hope to see now that she has been formally designated as the "guardian of time" and explicitly listed as a multiversal anomaly? Does she stay in an Excalibur/Knights of X style book? What does this mean for her usage on Krakoa and beyond? Is this a limiting role or an expansive one for her? Can she officially drop "Prestige" and become Askani?

[Micabe]

So, the more I think about KoX #4 and it's implications for Rachel moving forward, what do we hope to see now that she has been formally designated as the "guardian of time" and explicitly listed as a multiversal anomaly? Does she stay in an Excalibur/Knights of X style book? What does this mean for her usage on Krakoa and beyond? Is this a limiting role or an expansive one for her? Can she officially drop "Prestige" and become Askani?

In which title(s) and issue(s) has Rachel been formally designated as the guardian of time and listed as a multiversal anomaly when we know this Rachel was born on Earth-811?