View Poll Results: Do You Agree That They Couldn’t Do Better Than Molina And Dafoe?

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  • Yes. They’re The Only Ones Who Could Play The Parts

    17 28.33%
  • No. Feige Is Mistaken.

    37 61.67%
  • I’m Not Sure.

    6 10.00%
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  1. #1
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    Default Do You Agree With Kevin Feige that Molina and Dafoe Are Irreplaceable?

    Kevin Feige said last year that one of the reasons they avoided recasting old villains like Green Goblin and Doc Ock is because he felt they couldn’t do better than them. After seeing No Way Home, do you agree with this statements or do you think that Feige is mistaken?

    Marvel head Kevin Feige explains the MCU avoided using DocOck and GreenGoblin before SpiderManNoWayHome because they didn't think they could do better than Alfred Molina and Willem Dafoe.


    Either way, this seems to rule out new versions of these characters for the MCU going forward.
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 01-03-2022 at 03:37 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Absolutely not. Imagine if Nolan had that mentality about Nicholson's Joker while making TDK. Or if Eon had that mindset about Connery's Bond films while making Craig's.

    The only difference is that Feige worked on the first two Raimi films, and therefore has that bias that those two are irreplaceable.

    In hindsight, this mentality is partly to blame for how both of the post-Raimi reboots turned out. Both Sony and Feige started out with this implicit mindset that Spidey's best live-action days are behind him and that there is no way to top what came before. It's clear when you look at how reactionary each series was in trying differentiate themselves from Raimi.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 01-03-2022 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #3
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    No.

    I mean, Molina and Dafoe are amazing in those roles and embodied them phenomenally, they're iconic, but they're not the only ways to portray those characters.

    Just look at all the various, yet valid, takes on the Green Goblin and Doc Ock we've had in animation or video games. There are very different ways to play these characters, even different than the live-action actors did, that are still true to the character. It's not like Molina ever had a Master Planner saga or we got to see Dafoe fight the Hobgoblin or Tombstone.

    Just look at how many Joker and Lex Luthor's we've had.

    From what I've heard NWH made the villains work surprisingly well in the context of a story about Tom Hollands' Spider-Man but on some level I do feel like he deserved to have his own Gobby and Doc Ock and not just hand-me-downs from other Spider-Man.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    I don't agree that they're irreplaceable but I'm glad they were focused on using different villains instead of redoing them. Batman has so many villains but the Joker well always returns so it was nice to see great takes on Vulture and Mysterio. That said, those two are very big Spider-Man villains so I'm glad they could re-use the legendary versions themselves in a clever way

  5. #5
    Fantastic Member Nero's Avatar
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    No.

    No actor or actress should be the be all/end all with any of these fictional characters.

  6. #6
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    Just to echo others' sentiments, no actor is irreplaceable in any role. These characters existed before the actors and will continue long after these actors exited these roles (I'm actually paraphrasing Tom Hiddlestone on playing Loki).

    I'm not sure why Feige is so married to this idea that some actors played some characters so well that they can never be replaced.

    It's part of what's led to the "recast T'Challa movement" that's gaining steam.

  7. #7
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I would like to see a movie version of Ock that's a crime boss and outright leading the Sinister Six, or a Green Goblin in a more Spectacular-style costume.
    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Just to echo others' sentiments, no actor is irreplaceable in any role. These characters existed before the actors and will continue long after these actors exited these roles (I'm actually paraphrasing Tom Hiddlestone on playing Loki).

    I'm not sure why Feige is so married to this idea that some actors played some characters so well that they can never be replaced.

    It's part of what's led to the "recast T'Challa movement" that's gaining steam.
    Which is even more ironic considering the MCU had Edward Norton -> Mark Ruffalo and Terrence Howard -> Don Cheadle.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I would like to see a movie version of Ock that's a crime boss and outright leading the Sinister Six, or a Green Goblin in a more Spectacular-style costume.

    Which is even more ironic considering the MCU had Edward Norton -> Mark Ruffalo and Terrence Howard -> Don Cheadle.
    LOL...exactly.

    When the actor doesn't "fall in line" Feige and Marvel are very quick to dump the actor and re-cast.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I would like to see a movie version of Ock that's a crime boss and outright leading the Sinister Six, or a Green Goblin in a more Spectacular-style costume.

    Which is even more ironic considering the MCU had Edward Norton -> Mark Ruffalo and Terrence Howard -> Don Cheadle.
    To be fair that was when Ike was in charge. I think Howard to Cheadle specifically was because of Ike who was a cheep bastard. I think him wanting Civil War to be between Steve and Banner to save money was finally caused Feige to stand his ground to Disney and threaten to quit

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Lol, that kind of mentality gives less chances for other actors to prove it wrong.

    I think Josh Keaton is the absolute best Spidey voice actor, and only PSX Spidey is near his level, and I don't think either of those are irreplaceable, and while I would prefer if either generally returned, I'm not against listening to other voice actors' takes on Spidey, and hey, other voice actors may have stuff over those two even if I consider them to be worse, like 60's Spidey cartoon, he's literally the only one who bothers to change his Spidey and Peter voice, makes it far more believable that people can't recognize him by voice when they both sound so different.

    So yeah, change can be nice, and holding on to Dafoe and Molina to such an extent is toxic nostalgia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I would like to see a movie version of Ock that's a crime boss and outright leading the Sinister Six, or a Green Goblin in a more Spectacular-style costume.
    Fun villains in MCU? Is that even legal? .
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  11. #11
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I guess we should probably also mention JK Simmons as Jonah.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    To be fair that was when Ike was in charge. I think Howard to Cheadle specifically was because of Ike who was a cheep bastard. I think him wanting Civil War to be between Steve and Banner to save money was finally caused Feige to stand his ground to Disney and threaten to quit
    Still sets at least some precedent, although I don't know how firm Feige is when it comes to recasting personally...like, obviously as a creator you want to avoid it for something in-universe whereas with the Spidey villains he, personally, couldn't really see them being played by anyone else even if that meant wholesale bringing those versions over to deal with Tom Hollands' Spider-Man instead of just giving him unique stories with unique versions of those characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I think Josh Keaton is the absolute best Spidey voice actor, and only PSX Spidey is near his level, and I don't think either of those are irreplaceable, and while I would prefer if either generally returned, I'm not against listening to other voice actors' takes on Spidey, and hey, other voice actors may have stuff over those two even if I consider them to be worse, like 60's Spidey cartoon, he's literally the only one who bothers to change his Spidey and Peter voice, makes it far more believable that people can't recognize him by voice when they both sound so different.
    Do you mean Rino Romano?

    Spidey's had some great VA's (Yuri, Dan Gilvezan, Christopher Daniel Barnes, Neil Patrick harris, etc.). I think the only bad period were like those Activison Avengers games and Web of Shadows...
    Fun villains in MCU? Is that even legal? .
    Well, Hela...Ego...Um, Klaw, I guess? I feel like villains should be serious to some extent otherwise we just get more quips and quips and quips...

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Do you mean Rino Romano?
    For PSX Spidey, yes.

    Spidey's had some great VA's (Yuri, Dan Gilvezan, Christopher Daniel Barnes, Neil Patrick harris, etc.). I think the only bad period were like those Activison Avengers games and Web of Shadows...
    I don't mind WoS Spidey, his voice is a bit too high pitched, but he overall sounds fine.

    Edit: Also, that reminds me, as much as Gilvezan did a good job, Shattered Dimension's interpretation for Miguel was pretty wack, though that's the script's fault, definitely not his'.

    Well, Hela...Ego...Um, Klaw, I guess? I feel like villains should be serious to some extent otherwise we just get more quips and quips and quips...
    Oh yeah, I remember thinking Klaw was alright.

    Still depressing that MCU has like 50 movies and most villains in 'em are just, blergh.

    But good point, MCU quips make me want to die as is, that number increasing with the villains doing 'em would suck, imagine Thanos quipping .
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 01-03-2022 at 04:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  13. #13
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    For PSX Spidey, yes.
    I remember hearing him there first before I ever heard him as Spidey in Unlimited.
    I don't mind WoS Spidey, his voice is a bit too high pitched, but he overall sounds fine.

    Edit: Also, that reminds me, as much as Gilvezan did a good job, Shattered Dimension's interpretation for Miguel was pretty wack, though that's the script's fault, definitely not his'.
    I think Barnes and the writing definitely fit Miguel better in Edge of Time, although it helped Peter David was involved.
    Oh yeah, I remember thinking Klaw was alright.

    Still depressing that MCU has like 50 movies and most villains in 'em are just, blergh.

    But good point, MCU quips make me want to die as is, that number increasing with the villains doing 'em would suck, imagine Thanos quipping .
    I'm suddenly reminded of that What If episode with Star-Lord T'Challa .

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    I voted NO, but it’s really yes and no for me.

    Yes, the actors did a great job, and I’ll always love them in the roles but, recasting isn’t off the table. I’m sure actors could do good jobs.

    I mean we’ve had 3 live action Spideys, 5 if you count Danny Seagren and Nicholas Hammond.
    A half dozen 007s, prob. three times that many Sherlock Holmeses…and so on

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I remember hearing him there first before I ever heard him as Spidey in Unlimited.
    I've had the embarrassing situation of not realizing that PSX Spidey and Unlimited Spidey are voiced by the same guy, and I did relate both voices and thought they sounded similar, and somehow never considered they could be voiced by the same guy until I was told lol.

    I think Barnes and the writing definitely fit Miguel better in Edge of Time, although it helped Peter David was involved.
    I think Edge of Time even used some idea that Peter David abandoned, that Alchemax's big boss was an evil Peter or somethin' like that.

    I'm suddenly reminded of that What If episode with Star-Lord T'Challa .
    Why? Did we have Thanos quipping in it? That sounds like hell lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

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