Inferno #4 Review/Spoilers

[Habis]

In regards to Moira’s motives…

1) she could be lying about still wanting to create a mutant cure
Or
2) depending on the nature of the cure and how it’s distributed, it could be extremely beneficial to have the vast majority of mutants living in a space of roughly 1,100 square miles so that, say, viral transmission can happen so quickly that it can’t be reacted to.

I dunno... if Krakoa were ravaged by a plague that depowered all mutants, shouldn't it trigger all of Destiny's alarms? Even if she didn't knew that Moira did it, Destiny should know about the malady, and she would make sure everybody knew in advance...

[Wat]

So even after Inferno Krakoa remains a slut which feeds on the bitches of the island. Essentially Krakoa has made the whole X-Men cuckolds while it chooses and feeds on them. Thus it is the sugar daddy and makes the entirety of X-Men it's whore.

[Celestialbodies]

Say each and everyone of them and how they could be used and how exactly they are a much better fit than Moira.

Let's not slightly pretend that the Moira in this era is even remotely similar at all to the character we've been reading prior. So virtually any character with a personality transplant could have been used in her stead without ending up exactly back at step 1.

Secondly, off the top of my head, Tempo, Tempus, Cable, Magik, Bishop, Hope, Layla Miller, Moonstar, Legion, Proteus, Forget-me-not, Destiny, Blindfold, Rachel Summers could have all functioned better in this role if we're just adding previously unknown development to a long-standing character. Give me an hour and I can add a few more to the list.

I'm more interested in exactly what you imagined Moira brought to this role that couldn't have been replaced? Her relationship to Banshee was non-existent, she infrequently mentioned Proteus, her Muir Island students weren't a subject of debate, Rahne wasn't worth a mention, we received almost no development towards her motivations until the end of the era, and almost all her interactions with Xavier were based solely around Krakoa. You liked everything that was done with Moira I didn't, yay you...


EDIT-- Apocalypse would have made a much better stand in all things considered, he actually was involved in the ongoing functions of this era, had heavy involvement in the Crucible, had previous relationships with all the major players in this era. Received the most development of most characters as well. Has a former connection to cosmic beings, utilized celestial technology, has had a hand in mutant affairs since his inception, was consistently used across this era and Moira's past lives and would have casually been willing to cross many of the lines Moira had in her previous lives as well as being incredibly long lived.

Speaking of long lived, Selene would have been a MUCH better choice given she's the oldest mutant we know of, has already great deal of her history we don't know about, has actually died and been resurrected no pod people needed, and again if we're discussing development she has some of the least of the long-standing X-villains. Give me 30 more minutes and I may have a few more to add!

Nope, Astra leads to question like "Who?" and "How come she's so important she barely had any contact with anyone?". She might as well be a new character. Anyone denying Moira is BY FAR the best fit for the role, if not the only one, isn't fooling anyone except maybe themselves.

You say this as if Moira wasn't basically a brand new character almost all of her previous development and interactions were lost. And the most superficial aspects of her relationship with Xavier remained, of which we only saw during HOX/POX, Inferno 4 was the most insight we had on how Xavier feels about Moira not simply her contributions to Krakoa. The data pages revealed more about Moira's manipulations than any development or characterization as it concerns her thoughts on Xavier AGAIN outside of Krakoa...


Additionally, many people did ask how Moira one of the few ardent human supporters of the X-men. Not only became the most important person(plot device) in the franchise but somehow also a mutant no one knew about not only given her extensive research in mutantdom but the plethora of genetic researchers in the X-men and greater Marvel U!

[Rev9]

Let's not slightly pretend that the Moira in this era is even remotely similar at all to the character we've been reading prior. So virtually any character with a personality transplant could have been used in her stead without ending up exactly back at step 1.

Secondly, off the top of my head, Tempo, Tempus, Cable, Magik, Bishop, Hope, Layla Miller, Moonstar, Legion, Proteus, Forget-me-not, Destiny, Blindfold, Rachel Summers could have all functioned better in this role if we're just adding previously unknown development to a long-standing character. Give me an hour and I can add a few more to the list.

I'm more interested in exactly what you imagined Moira brought to this role that couldn't have been replaced? Her relationship to Banshee was non-existent, she infrequently mentioned Proteus, her Muir Island students weren't a subject of debate, Rahne wasn't worth a mention, we received almost no development towards her motivations until the end of the era, and almost all her interactions with Xavier were based solely around Krakoa. You liked everything that was done with Moira I didn't, yay you...


EDIT-- Apocalypse would have made a much better stand in all things considered, he actually was involved in the ongoing functions of this era, had heavy involvement in the Crucible, had previous relationships with all the major players in this era. Received the most development of most characters as well. Has a former connection to cosmic beings, utilized celestial technology, has had a hand in mutant affairs since his inception, was consistently used across this era and Moira's past lives and would have casually been willing to cross many of the lines Moira had in her previous lives as well as being incredibly long lived.

Speaking of long lived, Selene would have been a MUCH better choice given she's the oldest mutant we know of, has already great deal of her history we don't know about, has actually died and been resurrected no pod people needed, and again if we're discussing development she has some of the least of the long-standing X-villains. Give me 30 more minutes and I may have a few more to add!




You say this as if Moira wasn't basically a brand new character almost all of her previous development and interactions were lost. And the most superficial aspects of her relationship with Xavier remained, of which we only saw during HOX/POX, Inferno 4 was the most insight we had on how Xavier feels about Moira not simply her contributions to Krakoa. The data pages revealed more about Moira's manipulations than any development or characterization as it concerns her thoughts on Xavier AGAIN outside of Krakoa...


Additionally, many people did ask how Moira one of the few ardent human supporters of the X-men. Not only became the most important person(plot device) in the franchise but somehow also a mutant no one knew about not only given her extensive research in mutantdom but the plethora of genetic researchers in the X-men and greater Marvel U!

I don't agree with the Apoc idea, he is too long lived to make Krakoa a credible idea now and not before..It is a catch 22 either make him a 4000 year old reincarnating dude which makes that level of interval irrelevant or take away his immortality and make his reincarnation pretty much like Moira's and everyone would be up in arms how stupid the idea is.If he is too old ,then why is Krakoa not a reality in the 19th century or even the middle ages? Are we saying with his tech cerebro could not exist back then? How about all the stalwarts who simply cannot exist beyond the last 50 years if Krakoa is a reality earlier? If he becomes a near recent phenomenon then that removes any of his deep history with the Xmen, it leaves one wondering how is Apocalypse recruiting Magneto and Xavier when there isn't even time for them to familiarise themselves as foes before they are allies. Apoc is a non starter, the only way this works is to completely undo the cyclic reincarnation narrative and have the lives 9,6 and all the rest in one continuum and then have Apoc kill himself with the death seed as his ace in the hole and transmit his old consciousness into his younger self and come and meet Xavier somewhere and lay it all bare.I mean we would still get here but by very different means.The same but an even more complex idea could work with Bishop ,if you say his regular time travel in one continuum has led to temporal echoes of himself..sort of time remnants living at different points in time without requiring reincarnation ,could also work with his true self hunting down and reabsorbing his own remnants to get knowledge as some weird Titan is hunting for him across time with OS .Where there is a will there's a way , a mutant like Bishop works neatly too .I just think we should accept the status quo ,there is no point imagining different scenarios to tell the same tale.Other than indulging our imagination ,what is the point? For me Moira was screwed over not so much by the writers but by Mystique and Destiny.The really did a number on her

[Omega Alpha]

Let's not slightly pretend that the Moira in this era is even remotely similar at all to the character we've been reading prior. So virtually any character with a personality transplant could have been used in her stead without ending up exactly back at step 1.

Secondly, off the top of my head, Tempo, Tempus, Cable, Magik, Bishop, Hope, Layla Miller, Moonstar, Legion, Proteus, Forget-me-not, Destiny, Blindfold, Rachel Summers could have all functioned better in this role if we're just adding previously unknown development to a long-standing character. Give me an hour and I can add a few more to the list.

I'm more interested in exactly what you imagined Moira brought to this role that couldn't have been replaced? Her relationship to Banshee was non-existent, she infrequently mentioned Proteus, her Muir Island students weren't a subject of debate, Rahne wasn't worth a mention, we received almost no development towards her motivations until the end of the era, and almost all her interactions with Xavier were based solely around Krakoa. You liked everything that was done with Moira I didn't, yay you...


EDIT-- Apocalypse would have made a much better stand in all things considered, he actually was involved in the ongoing functions of this era, had heavy involvement in the Crucible, had previous relationships with all the major players in this era. Received the most development of most characters as well. Has a former connection to cosmic beings, utilized celestial technology, has had a hand in mutant affairs since his inception, was consistently used across this era and Moira's past lives and would have casually been willing to cross many of the lines Moira had in her previous lives as well as being incredibly long lived.

Speaking of long lived, Selene would have been a MUCH better choice given she's the oldest mutant we know of, has already great deal of her history we don't know about, has actually died and been resurrected no pod people needed, and again if we're discussing development she has some of the least of the long-standing X-villains. Give me 30 more minutes and I may have a few more to add!




You say this as if Moira wasn't basically a brand new character almost all of her previous development and interactions were lost. And the most superficial aspects of her relationship with Xavier remained, of which we only saw during HOX/POX, Inferno 4 was the most insight we had on how Xavier feels about Moira not simply her contributions to Krakoa. The data pages revealed more about Moira's manipulations than any development or characterization as it concerns her thoughts on Xavier AGAIN outside of Krakoa...


Additionally, many people did ask how Moira one of the few ardent human supporters of the X-men. Not only became the most important person(plot device) in the franchise but somehow also a mutant no one knew about not only given her extensive research in mutantdom but the plethora of genetic researchers in the X-men and greater Marvel U!

But Moira is not a brand new character. She's the only character that fits the role because she already has extensive backstory with Xavier and Magneto, was involved with the X-men from the start, and clearly knew more than what's going on. So, she's been around enough to not lead to questions of "who?" but without panel time and backstory enough to make it impossible for her to fit.

If you use someone very old or with time-travel available (or rather, more conventional time-traveling powers, if there's such a thing), then makes no sense that Krakoa isn't a thing in 1500 or something. Moira is always limited by the fact she was born about 50 years before the story starts, and even then, there's only so much a child can do, so she has really only about 30 years to do something.

There's also the matter that Xavier and Magneto have no reason to trust nearly all the people you suggested.

I'll say again: if Hickman had used literally anyone else, the same people whining about Moira would whine she should be used instead, because no one else fits as well, and it would be a way to bring her back.

[Sutekh]

There's also the matter that Xavier and Magneto have no reason to trust nearly all the people you suggested.

I'll say again: if Hickman had used literally anyone else, the same people whining about Moira would whine she should be used instead, because no one else fits as well, and it would be a way to bring her back.

Gabrielle Haller might have been an interesting other option, and been someone both Xavier and Magneto might have trusted in that position, but it's six of one, half-dozen of the other really.

My main interest in it being Moira is because of her rich history not only with Xavier, but also with Proteus (obviously!), Sean, Jamie Madrox and Rahne.

All of which has been ignored, so, ultimately, I'm not really invested in Moira being the plot mover here, because it *could* have been literally anyone else, given how much attention they've given to Moira and her history and the various characters she's intimately tied to.

There *could* have been a rich story to tell about Moira engineering a special place for her son in this new mutant paradise, given her guilt over how he's been treated by life (and, more to the point, by her, keeping him locked in a cage for years), by her agonizing over keeping Sean in the dark, by her weeping quietly as she sees the difficulties that her adoptive kids Jamie and Rahne (particularly Rahne with her struggles against the Shadow King's machinations) are going through and being unable to help them or just be there for them, etc.

But, pfft. Missed opportunity #412.

So it literally could have been anyone else, since the choice of Moira was utterly ignored anyway.

[Brian B]

So even after Inferno Krakoa remains a slut which feeds on the bitches of the island. Essentially Krakoa has made the whole X-Men cuckolds while it chooses and feeds on them. Thus it is the sugar daddy and makes the entirety of X-Men it's whore.

Wow. LoL! Just, wow. That is some interpretation of what we all read.

[Saithor]

Please, if you want someone with history with both Magneto and Charles to be your Moira, just use Sinister. An island of constantly resurrecting mutant test subjects sounds like exactly the kind of thing he’d love, it’d be just like being back as Auschwitz for him but even less consequences.

Seriously, if you’re only justification for why Moira is perfect is that she has history with Charles and Erik, that’s not a good reason, it’s just the only part of the character you can find to justify using her like this. I don’t mind the retcon as much as some but let’s not pretend this is some kind of natural progression of the character.

[Brian B]

At first, I thought it was a good thing that Hickman’s story got stopped by Marvel and X editorial, allowing the Krakoan concepts more time to stretch out and maybe tell some good stories. Many of us complain that nothing changes permanently in the big two. X books’ status quo has certainly changed now.

Instead of being pleased with real change in the X books, all I’m seeing are the unexplained contradictions and retcons. Given what we know about Moira, how can we look at X continuity the same? There’s so many unanswered big questions. What were Xavier and Magneto doing with Genosha? What’s up with Magneto taking on the X-Men multiple times after about X-Men #150 (vol. 1) and before HoX/PoX, including removing Logan’s skeleton? Then there’s Apocalypse and Sinister. It all makes less and less sense, the more you look at it. It may become a big mistake, not letting Hickman finish the job.

[Saithor]

At first, I thought it was a good thing that Hickman’s story got stopped by Marvel and X editorial, allowing the Krakoan concepts more time to stretch out and maybe tell some good stories. Many of us complain that nothing changes permanently in the big two. Instead, all I’m seeing are the unexplained contradictions and retcons. Given what we know about Moira, how can we look at X continuity the same? There’s so many unanswered big questions. What were Xavier and Magneto doing with Genosha? What’s up with Magneto taking on the X-Men multiple times after about X-Men #150 (vol. 1) and before HoX/PoX, including removing Logan’s skeleton? Then there’s Apocalypse and Sinister. It all makes less and less sense, the more you look at it. It may become a big mistake, not letting Hickman finish the job.

And the Magneto thing they did say he split from them for a while, but yeah, it’s literally impossible to make this retcon work because you are giving three characters motivations for their entire published history thag they were never written with that intended. I don’t blame Claremont for not being enthusiastic about this era with that in mind considering it alters a lot of what he wrote for the series.

[Micabe]

Let's not slightly pretend that the Moira in this era is even remotely similar at all to the character we've been reading prior. So virtually any character with a personality transplant could have been used in her stead without ending up exactly back at step 1.

Secondly, off the top of my head, Tempo, Tempus, Cable, Magik, Bishop, Hope, Layla Miller, Moonstar, Legion, Proteus, Forget-me-not, Destiny, Blindfold, Rachel Summers could have all functioned better in this role if we're just adding previously unknown development to a long-standing character. Give me an hour and I can add a few more to the list.

I'm more interested in exactly what you imagined Moira brought to this role that couldn't have been replaced? Her relationship to Banshee was non-existent, she infrequently mentioned Proteus, her Muir Island students weren't a subject of debate, Rahne wasn't worth a mention, we received almost no development towards her motivations until the end of the era, and almost all her interactions with Xavier were based solely around Krakoa. You liked everything that was done with Moira I didn't, yay you...


EDIT-- Apocalypse would have made a much better stand in all things considered, he actually was involved in the ongoing functions of this era, had heavy involvement in the Crucible, had previous relationships with all the major players in this era. Received the most development of most characters as well. Has a former connection to cosmic beings, utilized celestial technology, has had a hand in mutant affairs since his inception, was consistently used across this era and Moira's past lives and would have casually been willing to cross many of the lines Moira had in her previous lives as well as being incredibly long lived.

Speaking of long lived, Selene would have been a MUCH better choice given she's the oldest mutant we know of, has already great deal of her history we don't know about, has actually died and been resurrected no pod people needed, and again if we're discussing development she has some of the least of the long-standing X-villains. Give me 30 more minutes and I may have a few more to add!


You say this as if Moira wasn't basically a brand new character almost all of her previous development and interactions were lost. And the most superficial aspects of her relationship with Xavier remained, of which we only saw during HOX/POX, Inferno 4 was the most insight we had on how Xavier feels about Moira not simply her contributions to Krakoa. The data pages revealed more about Moira's manipulations than any development or characterization as it concerns her thoughts on Xavier AGAIN outside of Krakoa...


Additionally, many people did ask how Moira one of the few ardent human supporters of the X-men. Not only became the most important person(plot device) in the franchise but somehow also a mutant no one knew about not only given her extensive research in mutantdom but the plethora of genetic researchers in the X-men and greater Marvel U!

Now that you mention it if Moria was a mutant all along (damn retcn) how did Charles not know or Cerebro not detect her?

[Triniking1234]

Now that you mention it if Moria was a mutant all along (damn retcn) how did Charles not know or Cerebro not detect her?

He met Moira before he created Cerebro and kept it a secret just like with Magneto and Amelia Voght.

[Bozack]

He met Moira before he created Cerebro and kept it a secret just like with Magneto and Amelia Voght.

Yeah, but as soon as he turned Cerebro on afterward, you would think it would detect her.

[Saithor]

Yeah, but as soon as he turned Cerebro on afterward, you would think it would detect her.

Well supposedly when he read her mind he didn't detect the mutant cure plan apparently....so if she planned to have some way of dodging that she also has a way to dodge Cerebro?

[Brian B]

And the Magneto thing they did say he split from them for a while, but yeah, it’s literally impossible to make this retcon work because you are giving three characters motivations for their entire published history thag they were never written with that intended. I don’t blame Claremont for not being enthusiastic about this era with that in mind considering it alters a lot of what he wrote for the series.

Now that you mention it if Moria was a mutant all along (damn retcn) how did Charles not know or Cerebro not detect her?

The more you look at this retcon, the less it works. A lot of it comes down to Prof. X and Magneto. If they’ve been secret allies since shortly after X-Men vol. 1, #150, then this stuff makes no sense. If it was even earlier, it would be worse. Look at X-Men vol. 2, issues 1 through 3. Magneto goes off for various reasons, including Moira for messing with his genes. He’s angry at her, angry at Charles, and he’s brainwashing or killing the X-Men, and going to war with Russia and the U.S. Magneto is revealing all of Moira’s secrets, out of spite. Their secret alliance is not mentioned or even hinted at, and it would make no sense within the context of that story. How does that fit in with Hickman’s now-ended Dawn of X titles? It doesn’t fit. It doesn’t make any sense. That’s just a single example. It gets worse if you start looking. I think Marvel should beg Hickman to come back and finish the story. This is just messier and messier, the more I look at it.