Inferno #4 Review/Spoilers

[Confuzzled]

I adopted a wait and see mindset for things didn't make sense. After Inferno's conclusion and heel turn I'm inclined to give this era a thumbs down. A lot just doesn't add up.

1. It was never clear: if Moira dies (as a mutant) does all of reality reset with her and begin anew with her resurrection?

2. I never understood why Moira had to remain in hiding. What secret were Xavier and Magneto protecting by hiding Moira away? That Moira is long lived and knows mutants are fated to fail in the long run? Plenty of people continue on in the face of certain death.

3. Why did Moira insist that Destiny stay dead and erase her DNA to prevent her resurrection? If Moira is trying to ensure mutants succeed, how does Destiny coming back to life prevent mutants from prospering in the long run?

4. Why would Moira chastise Xavier and Magneto for failing to stop Orchis if Moira was secretly (still) anti-mutant?

5. If Moira is anti-mutant why wouldn't she work to undermine the resurrection protocols?

1. Yes. Apparently the loophole was her powers needed to be nullified for her death to have no effect.

2. Moira's powers and their implications for the Krakoa timeline made her incredibly vulnerable, especially when the Council itself has non-trustworthy members like Shaw, Sinister and Mystique. Charles and Erik's biggest bit of hubris was thinking they could pull everyone's strings and control it all, even the people they considered dangerous and untrustworthy.

3. Moira came to the conclusion that if mutants are inevitably going to lose based on her past experiences (Lives 4-9), then maybe she had been RIGHT in Life 3 all along while coming up with the cure, and it was Mystique and Destiny who were wrong by preventing that timeline from reaching its potential. That's literally the monologue Destiny gives her before killing her in Life 3. That there may come a time when Moira comes to the conclusion that the cure was the only way. When Moira decided to return to the idea of the cure in Life 10, it became all the more important to prevent Irene from being resurrected and foiling her plans like she did in Life 3.

4. and 5. There is a little bit of vagueness here but I think Moira was not anti-mutant/pro-cure in Life 10 when she conceived the idea of uniting Charles, Erik and Apocalypse for one last Hail Mary! for mutants. I'm guessing she finally started growing more disillusioned when she realized even that wasn't enough to stop Nimrod from coming into being.

[danielsan52]

Was she ever shown even asking about her son??

[Omega Alpha]

1. Yes. Apparently the loophole was her powers needed to be nullified for her death to have no effect.

2. Moira's powers and their implications for the Krakoa timeline made her incredibly vulnerable, especially when the Council itself has non-trustworthy members like Shaw, Sinister and Mystique. Charles and Erik's biggest bit of hubris was thinking they could pull everyone's strings and control it all, even the people they considered dangerous and untrustworthy.

3. Moira came to the conclusion that if mutants are inevitably going to lose based on her past experiences (Lives 4-9), then maybe she had been RIGHT in Life 3 all along while coming up with the cure, and it was Mystique and Destiny who were wrong by preventing that timeline from reaching its potential. That's literally the monologue Destiny gives her before killing her in Life 3. That there may come a time when Moira comes to the conclusion that the cure was the only way. When Moira decided to return to the idea of the cure in Life 10, it became all the more important to prevent Irene from being resurrected and foiling her plans like she did in Life 3.

4. and 5. There is a little bit of vagueness here but I think Moira was not anti-mutant/pro-cure in Life 10 when she conceived the idea of uniting Charles, Erik and Apocalypse for one last Hail Mary! for mutants. I'm guessing she finally started growing more disillusioned when she realized even that wasn't enough to stop Nimrod from coming into being.

Regarding point 2- That's specially true if anti-mutant forces find out and decide to kill her off. Heck, she might even die accidentally on some attack.

04/05- An important point is that, via Karima, we know Moira's plan for the most part worked. But she doesn't know that, so she assumes she fails anyway.

Was she ever shown even asking about her son??

No, but- a) It's not hard to believe Xavier would give her a telepathic update if something important came up. b) It's not like she was the greatest mother even before the retcon anyway.

[DIVINITY]

i love magneto.

+1

The way Doug handled Mystique is just amazingly cool.

Doug is the star of the year.

He definitely stole the show! And I loved it!

[Serpentor007]

Sorry but this notion that Emma is mother Theresa should stop! Back it up a bit and tell me what is with Emma's indignation? Did she open up to the QC that Shaw killed Kate? No..Did she tell the rest of QC that Sinister was cooking a Tarn chimera under their noses? No..Did she reveal that she voted Destiny on the council by being bribed with a trinket? Doubt it...So what is her deal with Xavier and Magneto were keeping a big secret from the rest? What a hypocrite? She is mad at Xavier and Magneto for not 'trusting' her earlier or the entire council when she almost jeopardised the entire Krakoa project, in hindsight we are shown how Mystique was watching Moira's every move , but we know Nimrod had warned Mystique that he would be back for her(not verbatim but point is he knew her signature even disguised),so suddenly her walking Orchis gates without being noticed by Nimrod is sheer luck.Had she and Moira been caught by OS and Nimrod, they would both register as mutants and that would be the end of Krakoa, this is the gamble Emma was willing to take? Incredible

I agree. Emma's actions are not altruistic, they are greedy and, egotistical. She wasn't angry about the secrets kept from her, what is grinding her gears is not having been in on it, and in charge of it to begin with. The only thing she took from Moria's secrets is that her influence, and control is far inferior to theirs. Emma is ruled and defined by her ego, then her greed. As a leader, and a teacher, both Xavier, and Cyclops surpass her by far, as a telepath, Xavier, and Jean Grey clearly outclass her. She is abusive with her powers, look at how she acted as one of the Phoenix Five. She will always undermine, attack, or manipulate, anyone who is superior to her. Logan and Hank McCoy, both know this, and that is why they refuse to trust her. The difference between her and Xavier, isn't just how they use their telepathy, but how they set up their forces too. Xavier, and Magneto know a very nasty genocidal war is coming, as former soldiers, they are prepping for it, that is why they established a full on military, and political entity of a nation. Emma, Mystique, and Destiny, only care about the benefits of the here, and now. Emma's actions, and reasoning isn't for the sake of the nation, it was for her ego, if she can't have the same influence and control as Xavier and Magneto, she will do everything she can to make sure they can't keep it either.

[Confuzzled]

04/05- An important point is that, via Karima, we know Moira's plan for the most part worked. But she doesn't know that, so she assumes she fails anyway.

Which makes it all the more poetic and tragic. I really wish Hickman had gotten more time to setup the twists regarding Karima and Moira. I'm really excited for adaptations of HOX/Inferno doing those aspects of the story more justice.

I agree. Emma's actions are not altruistic, they are greedy and, egotistical.

Emma's actions, and reasoning isn't for the sake of the nation, it was for her ego, if she can't have the same influence and control as Xavier and Magneto, she will do everything she can to make sure they can't keep it either.

Why can't it be both? Just because her actions are driven by ego and emotion doesn't negate them from being altruistic and considerate of the future of "her children" and mutantkind. She has invested a lot of her time, energy and resources into Charles and Erik's cause because she believed and trusted them. To find out they've been withholding such an integral part of the equation from her for so long is certain to make her feel used and manipulated.

Of course, there's also the fact that she managed to discover Moira's intentions and what she was planning for the mutants. Which was why it became imperative for Emma to align with Mystique and Destiny to prevent mutant erasure.

[Rev9]

I agree. Emma's actions are not altruistic, they are greedy and, egotistical. She wasn't angry about the secrets kept from her, what is grinding her gears is not having been in on it, and in charge of it to begin with. The only thing she took from Moria's secrets is that her influence, and control is far inferior to theirs. Emma is ruled and defined by her ego, then her greed. As a leader, and a teacher, both Xavier, and Cyclops surpass her by far, as a telepath, Xavier, and Jean Grey clearly outclass her. She is abusive with her powers, look at how she acted as one of the Phoenix Five. She will always undermine, attack, or manipulate, anyone who is superior to her. Logan and Hank McCoy, both know this, and that is why they refuse to trust her. The difference between her and Xavier, isn't just how they use their telepathy, but how they set up their forces too. Xavier, and Magneto know a very nasty genocidal war is coming, as former soldiers, they are prepping for it, that is why they established a full on military, and political entity of a nation. Emma, Mystique, and Destiny, only care about the benefits of the here, and now. Emma's actions, and reasoning isn't for the sake of the nation, it was for her ego, if she can't have the same influence and control as Xavier and Magneto, she will do everything she can to make sure they can't keep it either.

Quoted for truth! Emma is a narcissist pure and simple

[Rev9]

Which makes it all the more poetic and tragic. I really wish Hickman had gotten more time to setup the twists regarding Karima and Moira. I'm really excited for adaptations of HOX/Inferno doing those aspects of the story more justice.



Why can't it be both? Just because her actions are driven by ego and emotion doesn't negate them from being altruistic and considerate of the future of "her children" and mutantkind. She has invested a lot of her time, energy and resources into Charles and Erik's cause because she believed and trusted them. To find out they've been withholding such an integral part of the equation from her for so long is certain to make her feel used and manipulated.

Of course, there's also the fact that she managed to discover Moira's intentions and what she was planning for the mutants. Which was why it became imperative for Emma to align with Mystique and Destiny to prevent mutant erasure.

'Because she believed and trusted them' that doesn't fly when in Inferno #4 she says 'I see weaknesses ,I see flaws' even if you limit this expression to only her power ,it is still absolutely incongruous with a claim that she trusted Xavier.Emma is not a trusting character and if she cannot trust someone, she seeks to either quell her cognitive bias with trying to peer into minds or her power is the one that turns her into a pessimist, either way it's impossible that she trusted Xavier. In fact her keeping all those details I mentioned Kate's death,Sinister's chimera, Mystique's bribe is precisely because she did not trust Xavier before she ever heard of Moira ,otherwise why the secrecy?

[Confuzzled]

'Because she believed and trusted them' that doesn't fly when in Inferno #4 she says 'I see weaknesses ,I see flaws' even if you limit this expression to only her power ,it is still absolutely incongruous with a claim that she trusted Xavier.Emma is not a trusting character and if she cannot trust someone, she seeks to either quell her cognitive bias with trying to peer into minds or her power is the one that turns her into a pessimist, either way it's impossible that she trusted Xavier. In fact her keeping all those details I mentioned Kate's death,Sinister's chimera, Mystique's bribe is precisely because she did not trust Xavier before she ever heard of Moira ,otherwise why the secrecy?

She did believe and trust him to a large extent if she was willing to pour so much of her time, energy and resources into buttressing Krakoa's socio-economic assets. Everyone has cards that they keep to themselves but Moira was the prime trigger for establishing Krakoa. Emma learning the real intention behind the mutant nation is bound to shake her.

Also there's the not-so-minor fact that Moira was secretly orchestrating a "mutant cure" to obliterate the entire race. There's no way Emma wouldn't have moved swiftly to shut that down regardless of how she felt about Xavier.

[Rev9]

She did believe and trust him to a large extent if she was willing to pour so much of her time, energy and resources into buttressing Krakoa's socio-economic assets. Everyone has cards that they keep to themselves but Moira was the prime trigger for establishing Krakoa. Emma learning the real intention behind the mutant nation is bound to shake her.

Also there's the not-so-minor fact that Moira was secretly orchestrating a "mutant cure" to obliterate the entire race. There's no way Emma wouldn't have moved swiftly to shut that down regardless of how she felt about Xavier.

I'm personally not sure where this 'cure' fits in the narrative.It may well be referring to the cure of life 3 (or was it 4) when she was stopped, I don't see how it fits into this life. It seems to have been thrown out there to give some sort of justification to Mystique/Emma to set up putting Moira 6 feet deep.

The problem I have with Emma is the hypocrisy, to lay blame at Xavier's and Magneto's feet for keeping the rest of their QC peers in the dark while she is guilty of no less is rich..and the fact that she was ready to put Moira in Mystique's crosshairs when at any moment in that Orchis base or en-route Nimrod and or OS could have recognised them as mutants and unravelled the reality is just careless(the fact that Destiny cannot see OS or the impact of an altered future makes me doubt that Destiny could guide Mystique in this mission in a flawless way)

[WallStreeter]

I agree. Emma's actions are not altruistic, they are greedy and, egotistical. She wasn't angry about the secrets kept from her, what is grinding her gears is not having been in on it, and in charge of it to begin with. The only thing she took from Moria's secrets is that her influence, and control is far inferior to theirs. Emma is ruled and defined by her ego, then her greed. As a leader, and a teacher, both Xavier, and Cyclops surpass her by far, as a telepath, Xavier, and Jean Grey clearly outclass her. She is abusive with her powers, look at how she acted as one of the Phoenix Five. She will always undermine, attack, or manipulate, anyone who is superior to her. Logan and Hank McCoy, both know this, and that is why they refuse to trust her. The difference between her and Xavier, isn't just how they use their telepathy, but how they set up their forces too. Xavier, and Magneto know a very nasty genocidal war is coming, as former soldiers, they are prepping for it, that is why they established a full on military, and political entity of a nation. Emma, Mystique, and Destiny, only care about the benefits of the here, and now. Emma's actions, and reasoning isn't for the sake of the nation, it was for her ego, if she can't have the same influence and control as Xavier and Magneto, she will do everything she can to make sure they can't keep it either.

Except Magneto and Xavier weakened everyone by not letting them know what they are facing. These two do not own mutant kind, and have no authority to make decisions for everyone else. Emma told Destiny and Mystique because quite frankly Moira had to be stopped.

Plus this is the 21st century. You just can’t have two men making all the decisions. Not inclusivity and diversity become such big political issues. This is really due to changing demographics.

[Confuzzled]

I'm personally not sure where this 'cure' fits in the narrative.It may well be referring to the cure of life 3 (or was it 4) when she was stopped, I don't see how it fits into this life. It seems to have been thrown out there to give some sort of justification to Mystique/Emma to set up putting Moira 6 feet deep.

See this...

Moira came to the conclusion that if mutants are inevitably going to lose based on her past experiences (Lives 4-9), then maybe she had been RIGHT in Life 3 all along while coming up with the cure, and it was Mystique and Destiny who were wrong by preventing that timeline from reaching its potential. That's literally the monologue Destiny gives her before killing her in Life 3. That there may come a time when Moira comes to the conclusion that the cure was the only way. When Moira decided to return to the idea of the cure in Life 10, it became all the more important to prevent Irene from being resurrected and foiling her plans like she did in Life 3.

...I think Moira was not anti-mutant/pro-cure in Life 10 when she conceived the idea of uniting Charles, Erik and Apocalypse for one last Hail Mary! for mutants. I'm guessing she finally started growing more disillusioned when she realized even that wasn't enough to stop Nimrod from coming into being. The cure was her contingency plan.

Here's the page in question from Inferno #1 where Destiny mentions "the doubt" and a possibility of Moira eventually returning to the idea of the cure in a future life and the belief that mutants are freaks and oddities if they are always destined to lose.



So this is not something "tacked on" at the last minute, the entire mini-series has been building up to the reveal that Moira was going to retread her Life 3 plans of inventing the cure in Life 10.

The problem I have with Emma is the hypocrisy, to lay blame at Xavier's and Magneto's feet for keeping the rest of their QC peers in the dark while she is guilty of no less is rich..and the fact that she was ready to put Moira in Mystique's crosshairs when at any moment in that Orchis base or en-route Nimrod and or OS could have recognised them as mutants and unravelled the reality is just careless(the fact that Destiny cannot see OS or the impact of an altered future makes me doubt that Destiny could guide Mystique in this mission in a flawless way)

As WallStreeter said, Emma's secrets are still not at the magnitude of Xavier's secrets. And she almost instantly sussed out what Moira was upto when she read her mind, which incensed her even further at his stupidity.

As for the whole deal with the Orchis base, we don't even know if Emma was in on that. All she did was tell Mystique and Destiny about Moira and gave them the nullifier gun to eliminate her as a threat.

[Rev9]

See this...



Here's the page in question from Inferno #1 where Destiny mentions "the doubt" and a possibility of Moira eventually returning to the idea of the cure in a future life and the belief that mutants are freaks and oddities if they are always destined to lose.



So this is not something "tacked on" at the last minute, the entire mini-series has been building up to the reveal that Moira was going to retread her Life 3 plans of inventing the cure in Life 10.



As WallStreeter said, Emma's secrets are still not at the magnitude of Xavier's secrets. And she almost instantly sussed out what Moira was upto when she read her mind, which incensed her even further at his stupidity.

As for the whole deal with the Orchis base, we don't even know if Emma was in on that. All she did was tell Mystique and Destiny about Moira and gave them the nullifier gun to eliminate her as a threat.

I don't necessarily see the doubt as talk of the cure specifically,
simply the question whether mutants win..I could be wrong ,but Moira to be working on a cure now doesn't make sense, the only life it makes sense is life 6 , hence why Moira was spared to live in a little mutant zoo and was offered to be taken off planet ( the on page reason included) before Phalanx came. I mean how would she make the cure in life 10 when Magneto was tracking her movements?..the only way is to suppose she was doing that before she met Xavier at the fair ,but that doesn't make any darn sense.To me it was just thrown in, I concede it may be a possibility but it makes more narrative sense if she started this cure as a 'screw you' to Mistique and Irene but only after her near brush with death not before.

I just don't accept that Xavier's secret was so much worse than Emma's because in any given moment they trusted Moira(even if in story they were naive) ,but Emma keeping her mouth shut about Shaw and Sinister is just wrong,I mean sure she told Storm but that was just a faction not the entire council, Sinister's case is even worse she had a mole in his team ,likely knew he killed the team during Amenth mission(Empath was through the gate to see him kill Psylocke) ,then she incredibly was mum when a telepath like her ,likely knew the team was mmessed with by Mastermind..to assume she didn't know anything is just way too convenient (why have a mole if you are not keeping in touch to be alerted of events?)if she was looking the other way to bide the time to be the hero, then Emma's delay may well have been the key factor to imploding the entire team. I mean I look at her antics and they are just ridiculous

[Confuzzled]

I don't necessarily see the doubt as talk of the cure specifically,
simply the question whether mutants win..I could be wrong ,but Moira to be working on a cure now doesn't make sense, the only life it makes sense is life 6 , hence why Moira was spared to live in a little mutant zoo and was offered to be taken off planet ( the on page reason included) before Phalanx came. I mean how would she make the cure in life 10 when Magneto was tracking her movements?..the only way is to suppose she was doing that before she met Xavier at the fair ,but that doesn't make any darn sense.To me it was just thrown in, I concede it may be a possibility but it makes more narrative sense if she started this cure as a 'screw you' to Mistique and Irene but only after her near brush with death not before.

Life 10 is her last confirmed life (with an 11th one only promised if she did everything in a particular way) so she made contingency plans if uniting Charles, Erik and En Sabah Nur failed to stop the creation of Nimrod. The cure was her Plan B. We don't know when she started on it in Life 10, so it very well may have been before she met Charles. We also see her holding a journal with the page turned to info about the cure and her fellow scientists who helped co-create it in a previous issue, so it's possible Magneto tracking her wouldn't guarantee that he would figure out what she was up to.

[Rnap22]

Moira is still under the impression that the mutants fail. Future Karima knows that mutants prevail, so Moira is wrong and she doesn’t know that. She was afraid of Destiny “seeing” her as a void and seeing that mutants always fail. With Destiny and Mystique taking away her powers and Doug saving her life, she is now going to circle back to the cure because in her mind the only way to save mutants is to turn them human. We also know that the machines hate humans as well, so she will not change the outcome if she started curing mutants.