Which do you prefer the X-Men Status Quo or the pre- HOX/POX days

[rcaguy]

The concept of a planet Okarra and by extension a rising Okarran empire sounds more delicious everyday.

If you want to read about an empire that really needs to be trashed by the Minbari read Black Panther.

[Maestro 216]

Kevin Feige will be like back to formula, but I miss the school when it wasn't getting blown up on a weekly basis.

[superjosh]

Krakoa era FOR SURE. The X-Men comics have been stale for more than a decade and went through that whole dark period where Marvel tried to erase them. They needed something big to move mutantkind foward and Hickman gave it to us. It's far from perfect and I think a big problem is that a lot of the writers were not up to the task. Hickman, as a resource, was needed to do the world building so I can understand that his take was more macro, but at least he delivered compelling stuff. It's unfortunate that he was only able to focus on a handful of characters most of the time, but that's what all the other writers were supposed to be helping out on! (Like seriously, what were Ed Brisson and Tini Howard even doing in those early days?? Percy definitely went off the rails. And a whole series devoted to Kid Cable's one plotline?)

And on that note, I'm so tired of people whining about characters being "OOC". I think for the most part, everyone has reacted to this new era in a way that's pretty believable. These characters have been given a veritable Shangri La. Of course they're going to change and show new sides to their being, and yes things will get to their heads and egos will develop. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. What would happen if you suddenly got more than you could've ever imagined??

[ARkadelphia]

- I love the old days for the wonderful stories that have been told and can be revisited.

- I like the current era for the potential still has moving forward.

- But if this were “Let’s Make A Deal” I would definitely not be picking the old days door and I’d prefer to take my chances on door number three - new concept we’ve never seen before - instead of sticking with door two, the current Krakoa status quo.

[Triniking1234]

Out of the almost 50 years of pre-Krakoan X-Men, only 15 to 20 of them are good.

[Mercury]

As much as I've criticized Hickman for his lack of character development, I do love what he brought to the franchise and hope it is built upon and further explored. Also, despite the fact that he didn't get to tell the story he initially intended to tell, based on interviews I've read and listened to, I get the feeling that he is both surprised and proud of the fact that his changes have had and will continue to have a lasting impact on the franchise. Most of his missteps and mistakes can be corrected in fun and intriguing ways, but what he did get right cannot easily be replicated.

[nx01a]

My only issue with the pre-Krakoa days is how absolutely anti-mutant the 616 humans are. The Avengers and FF don't actively try to do PR and help mutant causes, humans don't blink when mutant genocide after mutant genocide occur, and they happily march their kids to get the anti-mutant shot... which I think was a ridiculous plot device anyhow. If the X-Men's attempts to better the world's view of mutants actually worked, if there were far more positive (or at least neutral) portrayals of humanity at large and human laws/institutions changing for the better in relation to mutant rights, and genocide wasn't seemingly the first writer option in the 21st Century, I think having the X-Men as socially conscious superheroes and teachers could still work.

Having said that... 616 humans are violently anti-mutant, new enemies appear every day, genocides and 'cures' are rampant, and there's no sign that mutant tolerance much less acceptance and integration will ever be possible. Krakoa is the logical next step for people pushed past the breaking point by almost every factor imaginable. Do I like their 'drink the Kool Aid' mutant superiority stance? Do I like that they're actively trying to take over the world through their drugs and financial endeavours? Do I like horrific and unnecessary elements like the Crucible? Nope, but I definitely understand how we got here and I'm intrigued by where Krakoa will go next.

I just wish there had at least been a chance for Xavier's dream to actually work, some hope for humans and mutants living together in peace. In the 616, sadly not.

[Celestialbodies]

Krakoa!!!


I think for those that long for the mansion days, mutantdom need not be a monolith in where located. In the past the X-men have always had multiple bases of operations. Genosha, Muir Island, Massachusetts Academy, X-force & X-factor headquarters!

Even now the X-men nor mutantdom are all based out of Krakoa. My hope is as this era evolves and as what it means to be an X-man and mutant extends we see different groups of mutantd located and thriving in different spaces.

I agree with any sentiments which unequivocally reject regression or a return to a stagnant status quo. Let these ideas grow and continue to change, we're in a new era people ripe with story potential let's enjoy the ride!

[Park Slope Pixie]

Pre-HoX/PoX for me.

I’m on record as saying I don’t like them as murderous bigoted self serving Cultists.

When werent they?

[cam18]

Depends which status quo out of the school, with Prof X leading, Utopia era, or the Whole extinction stuff that culminated with Wanda that nearly buried the X books for like a Decade.....while I do miss the whole Xavier School etc.....after years of the Extinction stuff I was ready to drop the X books and Hickman rejunivated my interest that is not to say he has knocked everything out of the park but compared to some of the stuff prior I would take Hickman.....Still that run from 75-91 and a few years after that till about after AOA is my golden age.

[RachelGrey]

As much as I've criticized Hickman for his lack of character development, I do love what he brought to the franchise and hope it is built upon and further explored. Also, despite the fact that he didn't get to tell the story he initially intended to tell, based on interviews I've read and listened to, I get the feeling that he is both surprised and proud of the fact that his changes have had and will continue to have a lasting impact on the franchise. Most of his missteps and mistakes can be corrected in fun and intriguing ways, but what he did get right cannot easily be replicated.

Above all, I like change, I like watching how some characters have truly grown and changed over the years. Some of my favorite changes have been Cyclops, Emma Frost, Magneto, and Juggernaut. It's nice to see a period where mutant kids aren't being executed by religious right wing nutcase humans every two issues. The absolute participation of the US government and other governments in institutionalized racism against mutants has been hanging over the 616 universe for years. Even around the decimation period there were humans and government organizations drooling over the idea of executing the last remaining mutants on Earth. That was the whole reason they fled to Utopia, because it was getting obvious the US Government O.N.E. was turning the mansion into a concentration camp for the remaining mutants.

Orchis has funding and support from secret agencies from Russian and the United States, aka Henry Peter Gyrich and people like him.

Human racism against mutants hasn't gone away, it's just not as easy for the human right wing religious terrorists to kill busloads of children anymore.

I actually think that Hickman took the right tack in Inferno to show that Omega Sentinel and Nimrod intended to conquer mutants and humans both. On Rachel's world, at some point the Sentinel Overmind became fully self-aware and at that point the Sentinels took control over North America and launched Nuclear bombs on Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.. to get rid of all the enemies of the Sentinel program. The remaining humans became slave/servants to the machines.

In Days of Future Past, Logan was sent by the Canadian and international alliance to find out what the Sentinels were planning, as well as to free people from the concentration camps. They had bad intel though, the Sentinel Overmind knew about the secret mission and gave them false information about the location of the central computer database being in the Baxter Building. When they got there they found out that the Overmind wasn't there, and it was a trap all along, and every mutant was killed except for Rachel and Kate.

Kate made a last ditch effort to stop Nimrod from coming on line and she attacked the manufacturing facility with a radioactive explosive. Unfortunately, Nimrod was able to follow Rachel/Phoenix to Earth 616 through the Phoenix amplified Chronoskimming portal.

In Powers of X and in Days of Future past, humans are enslaved by the machines and the remaining humans are forcibly turned into cyborgs so they have to serve the collective Sentinel Overmind. The Sentinels end game is to submit the entire human race to the AI Phalanx and the Dominions so that machines rule the entire solar system.

Omega Sentinel even revealed that the Children of the Vault are no saviors of humanity either, they intended to purge the Earth of both humans and mutants to make way for themselves.

[Habis]

Above all, I like change, I like watching how some characters have truly grown and changed over the years. Some of my favorite changes have been Cyclops, Emma Frost, Magneto, and Juggernaut. It's nice to see a period where mutant kids aren't being executed by religious right wing nutcase humans every two issues. The absolute participation of the US government and other governments in institutionalized racism against mutants has been hanging over the 616 universe for years. Even around the decimation period there were humans and government organizations drooling over the idea of executing the last remaining mutants on Earth. That was the whole reason they fled to Utopia, because it was getting obvious the US Government O.N.E. was turning the mansion into a concentration camp for the remaining mutants.

Orchis has funding and support from secret agencies from Russian and the United States, aka Henry Peter Gyrich and people like him.

Human racism against mutants hasn't gone away, it's just not as easy for the human right wing religious terrorists to kill busloads of children anymore.

I actually think that Hickman took the right tack in Inferno to show that Omega Sentinel and Nimrod intended to conquer mutants and humans both. On Rachel's world, at some point the Sentinel Overmind became fully self-aware and at that point the Sentinels took control over North America and launched Nuclear bombs on Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.. to get rid of all the enemies of the Sentinel program. The remaining humans became slave/servants to the machines.

In Days of Future Past, Logan was sent by the Canadian and international alliance to find out what the Sentinels were planning, as well as to free people from the concentration camps. They had bad intel though, the Sentinel Overmind knew about the secret mission and gave them false information about the location of the central computer database being in the Baxter Building. When they got there they found out that the Overmind wasn't there, and it was a trap all along, and every mutant was killed except for Rachel and Kate.

Kate made a last ditch effort to stop Nimrod from coming on line and she attacked the manufacturing facility with a radioactive explosive. Unfortunately, Nimrod was able to follow Rachel/Phoenix to Earth 616 through the Phoenix amplified Chronoskimming portal.

In Powers of X and in Days of Future past, humans are enslaved by the machines and the remaining humans are forcibly turned into cyborgs so they have to serve the collective Sentinel Overmind. The Sentinels end game is to submit the entire human race to the AI Phalanx and the Dominions so that machines rule the entire solar system.

Omega Sentinel even revealed that the Children of the Vault are no saviors of humanity either, they intended to purge the Earth of both humans and mutants to make way for themselves.

Did they ever explain how come the original Nimrod who traveled back in time genuinely wanted to protect humans, but the Sentinels back in Rachel's future did kill and enslave humans? Maybe that Nimrod and Rachel came from different timelines?

[RachelGrey]

Did they ever explain how come the original Nimrod who traveled back in time genuinely wanted to protect humans, but the Sentinels back in Rachel's future did kill and enslave humans? Maybe that Nimrod and Rachel came from different timelines?

That Earth 811 Nimrod came online and instantly followed Rachel to Earth and then he began to evolve over time. At first he kept to his mandate to hunt and kill mutants, then after his fight with the X-Men and Hellfire Club he decided to adjust his own programming to only arrest mutants according the current laws of the time and the mutant registration act. Then Nimrod started hunting human criminals who were hurting the community he was living in because he started to realize that human criminals were a serious threat (drug traffickers and sex traffickers). Earth 811 Nimrod was also disconnected from the Sentinel High Command so more and more he was evolving and making decisions for himself. Eventually after he observed humans long enough he started wondering if his programming was even logical. Then Nimrod and Rogue both tried to stop Master Mold, and when Master Mold absorbed Nimrod, Nimrod realized that he himself had "mutated" and he did everything he could to freeze Master Mold in place so Rogue could push them both through the siege perilous. When they went through the Siege Perilous they were merged into Bastion and Master Mold became the dominant personality inside Bastion with Nimrod's advanced future technology.

[Habis]

That Earth 811 Nimrod came online and instantly followed Rachel to Earth

I didn't remember that part. I remember that Nimrod appeared due to Dr. Strange and Magik changing the past, but not that he was specifically hunting Rachel.

Anyways I kind of remember that Nimrod wanted to protect humans from the beginning, but he came to care for mutants too much later.

[Saithor]

My only issue with the pre-Krakoa days is how absolutely anti-mutant the 616 humans are. The Avengers and FF don't actively try to do PR and help mutant causes, humans don't blink when mutant genocide after mutant genocide occur, and they happily march their kids to get the anti-mutant shot... which I think was a ridiculous plot device anyhow. If the X-Men's attempts to better the world's view of mutants actually worked, if there were far more positive (or at least neutral) portrayals of humanity at large and human laws/institutions changing for the better in relation to mutant rights, and genocide wasn't seemingly the first writer option in the 21st Century, I think having the X-Men as socially conscious superheroes and teachers could still work.

Having said that... 616 humans are violently anti-mutant, new enemies appear every day, genocides and 'cures' are rampant, and there's no sign that mutant tolerance much less acceptance and integration will ever be possible. Krakoa is the logical next step for people pushed past the breaking point by almost every factor imaginable. Do I like their 'drink the Kool Aid' mutant superiority stance? Do I like that they're actively trying to take over the world through their drugs and financial endeavours? Do I like horrific and unnecessary elements like the Crucible? Nope, but I definitely understand how we got here and I'm intrigued by where Krakoa will go next.

I just wish there had at least been a chance for Xavier's dream to actually work, some hope for humans and mutants living together in peace. In the 616, sadly not.

I just want to say, blame Marvel overall for that one, they used to have non-mutant superheroes help them out, Peter Parker was a professor at the Jean Grey school at one point, and I feel like I’m the only one who remember Thor helping them out during Mutant Massacre.