I miss the old Moira

[PyroFN]

They really don't know what to do with Moira X, do they? First, they take her reset button power away and give her some cybernetic parts -- but within a week or two, the cybernetics are gone. Nevermind that, though, a couple of weeks after, she's dead, then not dead and now fully cybernetic. Presumably with new mutant-hating cyborg powers.

Wait, though, we're not done yet. A week later, clones of her -- presumably with reset button powers -- are here.

Jeez Louise.

Lol, we didn’t know how good we had it with old Moira from the Claremont days being just Charles housemaid/scientist love interest until they changed her.

They gave her relevance, but took away her character as a result. Now she has no attachments, and thus no character. The future is all she thinks about. Reminds me of what Yoda told Luke in the Empire Strikes Back.

“This one, a long time have I watched. All his life as he looked away to the future. To the horizon. Never his mind on where he was! What he was doing!”

[BobbysWorld]

spoilers:

Given how badly Sinister seems to want Hope on the Council, and given Hope's antipathy towards the Council's secret-keeping and close friendship with the rest of the Five......I will find it a fitting and ironic end for Sinister (at least in the current era since he's too famous an X-character to ever be done away with for good), if Hope being on the Council leads to her telling Proteus about Moira.....and then Proteus discovering Sinister's lab of Mommy clones.....and the subsequent reminder that Kev is NOT a dude you want angry at you..... Like whatever complicated reaction he ends up having to the full unveiling of Moira's role and presence throughout this era, he's still not going to take that lab or Sinister's version of 'the scientific method' well. Oh no Kevin, don't blink every sample of Sinister's DNA out of existence in a fit of filial rage haha noooooo that would be terrible.

end of spoilers

[Baron of Faltine]

Lol, we didn’t know how good we had it with old Moira from the Claremont days being just Charles housemaid/scientist love interest until they changed her.

They gave her relevance, but took away her character as a result. Now she has no attachments, and thus no character. The future is all she thinks about. Reminds me of what Yoda told Luke in the Empire Strikes Back.

“This one, a long time have I watched. All his life as he looked away to the future. To the horizon. Never his mind on where he was! What he was doing!”

Your comment is very interesting, as highlight one issue of a certain way to write characters in action comics, trend started in the late 90's, they are things so fast and focused on shock value, that the characters simply have no timemto build relations with the rest of the world, hence having less "character" as consequence. Really what happening to Moira is just the result of having a character whose only feature is her power.
As many have said apart from the first chapter, her "social" aspect was reduced to pretty much zero. She is an hollow shell.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Your comment is very interesting, as highlight one issue of a certain way to write characters in action comics, trend started in the late 90's, they are things so fast and focused on shock value, that the characters simply have no timemto build relations with the rest of the world, hence having less "character" as consequence. Really what happening to Moira is just the result of having a character whose only feature is her power.
As many have said apart from the first chapter, her "social" aspect was reduced to pretty much zero. She is an hollow shell.

Pretty much.

Writers these days take no effort to establish meaningful or clever interrelationships, by in large. They rely on what came before, stretching it further and further. I mean, for pete's sake, Rahne isn't allowed to stay mad at Guido, who, ya know, murdered her son.

At a certain point, it breaks. You can't keep going back to the same well, eventually it runs dry.

[Jv565]

Your comment is very interesting, as highlight one issue of a certain way to write characters in action comics, trend started in the late 90's, they are things so fast and focused on shock value, that the characters simply have no timemto build relations with the rest of the world, hence having less "character" as consequence. Really what happening to Moira is just the result of having a character whose only feature is her power.
As many have said apart from the first chapter, her "social" aspect was reduced to pretty much zero. She is an hollow shell.

I thought about that, and figured it was because the writers didn't know what to do with her. So, they shoved her in a No-Place until the next dues ex machina moment, but then I wondered if that was an intentional decision. What if, lifetime after lifetime of has whittled her down into someone who is all about the job? There's a Bible verse that says (among other things) 'When I became a man, I put away childish things'. That can happen when we mature from kids to adults. At this point, Moira would be basically a thousand year old woman. What if it's just her-with a millennia under her belt, putting away everything she deems to be childish? Which, at this point in her existence, would be everything except the core mission.

[LordUltimus]

I thought about that, and figured it was because the writers didn't know what to do with her. So, they shoved her in a No-Place until the next dues ex machina moment, but then I wondered if that was an intentional decision. What if, lifetime after lifetime of has whittled her down into someone who is all about the job? There's a Bible verse that says (among other things) 'When I became a man, I put away childish things'. That can happen when we mature from kids to adults. At this point, Moira would be basically a thousand year old woman. What if it's just her-with a millennia under her belt, putting away everything she deems to be childish? Which, at this point in her existence, would be everything except the core mission.

And that doesn't flow with the Moira we knew pre-retcon at all. Would this Moira have bothered to become close to Rahne, for instance?

[Jv565]

And that doesn't flow with the Moira we knew pre-retcon at all. Would this Moira have bothered to become close to Rahne, for instance?

Only if it was part of the plan, part of the guise she was keeping up to work through things with Xavier and Mags. Idk. Moira and her powerset is an amazingly complicated thing, and I'm trying to make all of the threads make sense.

[LordUltimus]

Only if it was part of the plan, part of the guise she was keeping up to work through things with Xavier and Mags. Idk. Moira and her powerset is an amazingly complicated thing, and I'm trying to make all of the threads make sense.

How is it in her plan? She hasn't even tried to talk to Rahne since she was brought back!

[Jv565]

How is it in her plan? She hasn't even tried to talk to Rahne since she was brought back!

No idea. It did seem like a convoluted plan lol

[gambit2051]

Before I play catch-up

Has Hickman confirmed what his ORIGINAL Plans were for Moira???

Due to the huge surge in readership of the X-Men Franchise (which could argued was rarely lower than it was pre-House of X), and success with the Hellfire Gala (to name just the 1 event that successfully crossed several media barriers in ways Marvel is dreaming to continue)...whatever his original story was had to be changed. It definitely sounds like Inferno would have been a much more of a...you know...Inferno...than the story of Political Change and Moira's "Fall" that I think many of us felt coming simply bc of how little Hickman was using her.

I HOPE that Hickman and Marvel have a deal in place to give him a 6-12 issue run of something like Hickmans X-Men The End...where he can show us what his original plans were...I think that would be a lot of fun.

The idea of Moira going Nimrod-like is interesting...but really...they had no idea what to do with her once the decision was made by All the Writers to keep the Krakoa Age running...which was DEFINITELY the correct decision due to the Sales and response to books during Hickmans run that were not written by him. It showed that that new status quo was something that people WANTED to remain...and as sad as I am that we did not get Hickman's original idea, I am thrilled we have this age of X-Men Comics.

I mean, Hickmans impact on the franchise is very likely only second to Clarmont...and it could be argued it was even larger due to the DRAMATIC shift it marked in the Treatment of Mutants THRU-OUT the Marvel line.

[Havok83]

Before I play catch-up

Has Hickman confirmed what his ORIGINAL Plans were for Moira???

Due to the huge surge in readership of the X-Men Franchise (which could argued was rarely lower than it was pre-House of X), and success with the Hellfire Gala (to name just the 1 event that successfully crossed several media barriers in ways Marvel is dreaming to continue)...whatever his original story was had to be changed. It definitely sounds like Inferno would have been a much more of a...you know...Inferno...than the story of Political Change and Moira's "Fall" that I think many of us felt coming simply bc of how little Hickman was using her.

I HOPE that Hickman and Marvel have a deal in place to give him a 6-12 issue run of something like Hickmans X-Men The End...where he can show us what his original plans were...I think that would be a lot of fun.

The idea of Moira going Nimrod-like is interesting...but really...they had no idea what to do with her once the decision was made by All the Writers to keep the Krakoa Age running...which was DEFINITELY the correct decision due to the Sales and response to books during Hickmans run that were not written by him. It showed that that new status quo was something that people WANTED to remain...and as sad as I am that we did not get Hickman's original idea, I am thrilled we have this age of X-Men Comics.

I mean, Hickmans impact on the franchise is very likely only second to Clarmont...and it could be argued it was even larger due to the DRAMATIC shift it marked in the Treatment of Mutants THRU-OUT the Marvel line.

Part of the original plan was for Moira to have her own solo. That never materialized and I think the characterization would have been different had we saw her play out in her own book

[Rev9]

Before I play catch-up

Has Hickman confirmed what his ORIGINAL Plans were for Moira???

Due to the huge surge in readership of the X-Men Franchise (which could argued was rarely lower than it was pre-House of X), and success with the Hellfire Gala (to name just the 1 event that successfully crossed several media barriers in ways Marvel is dreaming to continue)...whatever his original story was had to be changed. It definitely sounds like Inferno would have been a much more of a...you know...Inferno...than the story of Political Change and Moira's "Fall" that I think many of us felt coming simply bc of how little Hickman was using her.

I HOPE that Hickman and Marvel have a deal in place to give him a 6-12 issue run of something like Hickmans X-Men The End...where he can show us what his original plans were...I think that would be a lot of fun.

The idea of Moira going Nimrod-like is interesting...but really...they had no idea what to do with her once the decision was made by All the Writers to keep the Krakoa Age running...which was DEFINITELY the correct decision due to the Sales and response to books during Hickmans run that were not written by him. It showed that that new status quo was something that people WANTED to remain...and as sad as I am that we did not get Hickman's original idea, I am thrilled we have this age of X-Men Comics.

I mean, Hickmans impact on the franchise is very likely only second to Clarmont...and it could be argued it was even larger due to the DRAMATIC shift it marked in the Treatment of Mutants THRU-OUT the Marvel line.

I think the mistake made(and I don't think this is on Hickman) post Inferno was jump back to Moira too soon, giving her cancer and all that, it was unecessary .They should have just let her be for a year or two and come back to her when the climax is building say she is being taken over by the Phalanx instead of Wolverine ,or she is developing a cure that is techno-organic and creating a Phalanx pandemic ,something of that level of threat. Not a mere robot, we've had a dime a dozen of those.

[Thundershot]

How is it in her plan? She hasn't even tried to talk to Rahne since she was brought back!

She hadn’t really tried to talk to Sean, either. Though she did manage to get under his skin…..

[jwatson]

Before I play catch-up

Has Hickman confirmed what his ORIGINAL Plans were for Moira???

Due to the huge surge in readership of the X-Men Franchise (which could argued was rarely lower than it was pre-House of X), and success with the Hellfire Gala (to name just the 1 event that successfully crossed several media barriers in ways Marvel is dreaming to continue)...whatever his original story was had to be changed. It definitely sounds like Inferno would have been a much more of a...you know...Inferno...than the story of Political Change and Moira's "Fall" that I think many of us felt coming simply bc of how little Hickman was using her.

I HOPE that Hickman and Marvel have a deal in place to give him a 6-12 issue run of something like Hickmans X-Men The End...where he can show us what his original plans were...I think that would be a lot of fun.

The idea of Moira going Nimrod-like is interesting...but really...they had no idea what to do with her once the decision was made by All the Writers to keep the Krakoa Age running...which was DEFINITELY the correct decision due to the Sales and response to books during Hickmans run that were not written by him. It showed that that new status quo was something that people WANTED to remain...and as sad as I am that we did not get Hickman's original idea, I am thrilled we have this age of X-Men Comics.

I mean, Hickmans impact on the franchise is very likely only second to Clarmont...and it could be argued it was even larger due to the DRAMATIC shift it marked in the Treatment of Mutants THRU-OUT the Marvel line.

I think that's a little extreme. While i think hickman did amazing work we also have to account for the fact that he was allowed to when many writers weren't in a position to expand even if they wanted. But i'm thankful for what he presented and what we have now.Hopefully Moira will find her place, it can be easily iafter Immortal that wasn't her in X lives and personally it would be cool to find out Moira pulled a switch on everyone and wasn't even in the no place. She's a scientist too with more experience than sinister at this point unless we are to believe sinister's iq is just inherently that much higher than everyone else that even a genius with 10 lives and over a thousand years of study can't match him or anyone else on krakoa for that matter. a little hard to believe to be honest.

Actually it's VERY hard to believe moira had no plan basically.

[Sutekh]

spoilers:

Given how badly Sinister seems to want Hope on the Council, and given Hope's antipathy towards the Council's secret-keeping and close friendship with the rest of the Five......I will find it a fitting and ironic end for Sinister (at least in the current era since he's too famous an X-character to ever be done away with for good), if Hope being on the Council leads to her telling Proteus about Moira.....and then Proteus discovering Sinister's lab of Mommy clones.....and the subsequent reminder that Kev is NOT a dude you want angry at you..... Like whatever complicated reaction he ends up having to the full unveiling of Moira's role and presence throughout this era, he's still not going to take that lab or Sinister's version of 'the scientific method' well. Oh no Kevin, don't blink every sample of Sinister's DNA out of existence in a fit of filial rage haha noooooo that would be terrible.

end of spoilers

I want all of this. It feels like a huge missed story about this new change to Moira's status quo and how it affects Kevin. She's lived lives where she had to keep her boy in a locked cell, essentially starving, as his body withered and decayed, leaving him crippled and in pain, for decades, and now, she's helped orchestrate a world where he's one of the Five, one of the most celebrated mutants in an entire nation of mutants, and has an endless supply of young healthy bodies to 'wear' (without having to kill anyone!).

And he doesn't know. His mother kind of orchestrated this entire world and it just so terribly conveniently turned him from the Thing Under the Stairs to a frikkin' rock star with a built-in peer group of fellow young mutants, and he has no idea that she's even alive, let alone that she's more or less re-ordered the entire world to create this better life for him.

This seems like it should be a huge thing. The X-books have been replete with terrible absentee parents, sort of conveniently living entire lives and then sort of discovering that they have adult children, that, thank goodness, they never had to do squat to raise.

Whatever else Moira has or has not done, she's really raised the bar on parenting here. "Yeah, I used my weird mutant power to make a paradisical perfect life for my formerly disabled shut-in son."

Beats the heck out of whatever nonsense Mystique has done for (or, more typically, *to*) Nightcrawler.