Page 1 of 43 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 641
  1. #1
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    3,673

    Default I miss the old Moira

    Once Moira Mactaggart was the most prominent human ally to the X-Men. Then she's a mutant (which renders that human bit obsolete, and removes the whole coexistence thing the X-Men are supposed to be all about), and now her powers are gone and she's yet another mutant hating human, with a bunch of unnecessary baggage (particularly some disturbing stuff with Proteus that the writers don't seem to have realized yet). Can we have the moral human back, please?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member WeaponX's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Once Moira Mactaggart was the most prominent human ally to the X-Men. Then she's a mutant (which renders that human bit obsolete, and removes the whole coexistence thing the X-Men are supposed to be all about), and now her powers are gone and she's yet another mutant hating human, with a bunch of unnecessary baggage (particularly some disturbing stuff with Proteus that the writers don't seem to have realized yet). Can we have the moral human back, please?
    Agreed. Itís also particularly annoying that the basically resurrected a rare human x-men hero to character assassinate them. All in the name of what a twist.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    I miss her friendships and relationships, with Sean in particular, but Rahne was also important. And others.

    It’s like Hickman’s decision to remove Rogue from Inferno, Irene was her mother. Raven too.
    These relationships are the glue which holds the X-Men together, take it away and you may have a smart story, a clever story, but you lose the heart of the book, the characters and those they love.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Omaha
    Posts
    2,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    I miss her friendships and relationships, with Sean in particular, but Rahne was also important. And others.

    It’s like Hickman’s decision to remove Rogue from Inferno, Irene was her mother. Raven too.
    These relationships are the glue which holds the X-Men together, take it away and you may have a smart story, a clever story, but you lose the heart of the book, the characters and those they love.
    YES. Exactly this. Thank you!

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    13,652

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Once Moira Mactaggart was the most prominent human ally to the X-Men. Then she's a mutant (which renders that human bit obsolete, and removes the whole coexistence thing the X-Men are supposed to be all about), and now her powers are gone and she's yet another mutant hating human, with a bunch of unnecessary baggage (particularly some disturbing stuff with Proteus that the writers don't seem to have realized yet). Can we have the moral human back, please?
    This is my single biggest problem with Krakoa (not the only, but probably the biggest): The ENTIRE THING is built on a massive retcon that pretty much destroys the core identity of the character at the heart of it.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    Well, I guess we can take solace in the fact that the Moira we knew and loved probably was the Shi'ar golem since the first time we saw her, so THAT Moira hasn't been defiled... we can even get her back someday, maybe... I mean, for all we know Siryn secretly still keeps the mantle of goddess Morrigan... and I think it would be in character for her to use them to resurrect Moira as a gift to her dad Banshee... for all we know, she is hoarding her power, saving it for such occasion...

    It would be funny... we would have techno-organic infected former mutant Moira trying to "cure" mutants, and ex-golem human resurrected Moira, who thinks she is the real one and has no idea she's a mere copy...
    Last edited by Habis; 01-05-2022 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #7
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    236

    Default

    Maybe because the series was called Inferno, but what's been done to Moira kinda reminds me of what was done to Madelyne Pryor. Both were originally human women who were mutant allies, and were willing to risk their lives for the sake of their mutant friends. Both were undone by a retcon that turned them into mutants (I guess Maddie is technically a mutant, as a Jean clone), then wound up having their characters largely destroyed. I guess you could argue that Moira was a small sacrifice in the service of Hickman's larger story, but I'm a bit sad for losing Moira as she was. Killing her off was one thing, but now her whole character has been changed over, and you can't really look at her the same way in the old stories.

    Also agree with the people pointing out Rogue's absence from Inferno. Hickman's stories really lack heart. You can enjoy the grand sci-fi concepts, but it takes other writers to actually make the characters feel like themselves.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    This is my single biggest problem with Krakoa (not the only, but probably the biggest): The ENTIRE THING is built on a massive retcon that pretty much destroys the core identity of the character at the heart of it.
    This sums up my feelings about it too.

    I remember some arguing that HOX/POX had been the best thing to happen to Moira in years, since she had spend the previous 19 years being dead and hardly mentioned (though that could have been said about a lot of once important x-men characters forgotten and/or dead over the years), even though this return involved a complete retcon of her history, motivations and personality (together with Xavier and Magneto).
    Also turning her into a mutant with one of the most "plot" sounding powers in a while, essentialy removing one of the most vital normal human allies of the X-men from being such (an ignoring all the personal ties she had to various other X-men).

    But as was argued it also made her the most important figure in X-men history all of a sudden and brought her back to prominence.

    Well, i can still see their point, but to me there was ultimately nothing truely gained for Moira MacTaggert, but a lot lost when it comes to her role in X-men history previous to her death.

    From normal human allie, friend, lover and mother figure with a strong moral compass, to a scheming universe rebooting hope breaking mutant who actualy hates mutants and wants them to go away secretly. That's neither a good nor interesting development in my opinion. There were plenty of better villains before and one could have made one from scratch. This is just appropiating someone else's groundwork to skip having to create something new and make it matter.

    Also i just realise that this might actualy confirm that the situations for mutants actualy got worse because of her involvement in each of her lifes, making this newfound role for her even worse to the legacy of the character in the x-mythos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Well, I guess we can take solace in the fact that the Moira we knew and loved probably was the Shi'ar golem since the first time we saw her for the first time, so THAT Moira hasn't been defiled... we can even get her back someday, maybe... I mean, for all we know Siryn secretly still keeps the mantle of goddess Morrigan... and I think it would be in character for her to use them to resurrect Moira as a gift to her dad Banshee... for all we know, she is hoarding her power, saving it for such occasion...

    It would be funny... we would have techno-organic infected former mutant Moira trying to "cure" mutants, and ex-golem human resurrected Moira, who thinks she is the real one and has no idea she's a mere copy...
    At this point i'm expecting, that in a few years, someone will reveal that the dead Moira was actualy the real deal anyway and that Moira X is a fake, in order to restore Moira back to her heroic and moral status, as has been done so often in cape comics (Hydra Cap anyone?).
    Besides why should we trust the white pages to begin with? They are in universe documents, someone records them, so someone can manipulate them too.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    1,195

    Default

    Honestly on top of all the other complaints, I'd like to add that when some are turned off by how the Krakoan culture is, systematically dismantling any X-men human allies so that it appears all humanity is unified in hatred of all mutants is...a choice.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member norj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    This sums up my feelings about it too.

    I remember some arguing that HOX/POX had been the best thing to happen to Moira in years, since she had spend the previous 19 years being dead and hardly mentioned (though that could have been said about a lot of once important x-men characters forgotten and/or dead over the years), even though this return involved a complete retcon of her history, motivations and personality (together with Xavier and Magneto).
    Also turning her into a mutant with one of the most "plot" sounding powers in a while, essentialy removing one of the most vital normal human allies of the X-men from being such (an ignoring all the personal ties she had to various other X-men).

    But as was argued it also made her the most important figure in X-men history all of a sudden and brought her back to prominence.

    Well, i can still see their point, but to me there was ultimately nothing truely gained for Moira MacTaggert, but a lot lost when it comes to her role in X-men history previous to her death.

    From normal human allie, friend, lover and mother figure with a strong moral compass, to a scheming universe rebooting hope breaking mutant who actualy hates mutants and wants them to go away secretly. That's neither a good nor interesting development in my opinion. There were plenty of better villains before and one could have made one from scratch. This is just appropiating someone else's groundwork to skip having to create something new and make it matter.

    Also i just realise that this might actualy confirm that the situations for mutants actualy got worse because of her involvement in each of her lifes, making this newfound role for her even worse to the legacy of the character in the x-mythos.



    At this point i'm expecting, that in a few years, someone will reveal that the dead Moira was actualy the real deal anyway and that Moira X is a fake, in order to restore Moira back to her heroic and moral status, as has been done so often in cape comics (Hydra Cap anyone?).
    Besides why should we trust the white pages to begin with? They are in universe documents, someone records them, so someone can manipulate them too.
    One of Legion's alters was a version of Moria with reality warping powers that created the Age of X.
    There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
    There is no fear, there is power.
    I am the heart of the Force.
    I am the revealing fire of light.
    I am the mystery of darkness.
    In balance with chaos and harmony,
    Immortal in the Force.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by norj View Post
    One of Legion's alters was a version of Moria with reality warping powers that created the Age of X.
    So we allready have a contender. This would make his role in Way of X both ironic and fitting (he created his own vision of how Krakoa would rise and fall in his splintered mind). Also would be a neat way to explain how Orchis could get their hands on him.

  12. #12
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    This is my single biggest problem with Krakoa (not the only, but probably the biggest): The ENTIRE THING is built on a massive retcon that pretty much destroys the core identity of the character at the heart of it.
    And what’s worse is, depowering her doesn’t fix this because the damage has been irreversibly done. Even depowered, Moira isn’t a human, she’s just a depowered mutant whose entire world view basically comes from the cynicism that she’s gained over 10 lives and that the Moira we knew all these years was just a lie while she secretly plotted.

  13. #13
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    813

    Default

    Honestly, like, I also definitely read Moira as just being TIRED, y'know? I feel like if someone had just mentioned to her "Hey you've done a lot and lived a lot and this doesn't need to be your problem anymore if you don't want it to, like, if you want we could totally just put you in some kind of technological stasis or temporal field where you're totally asleep/unconscious or frozen in time in some highly protected vault or whatever for the next thousand years and whenever we achieve the kind of stability where we feel we're not in danger of being wiped out by either humanity or AIs then we can wake you up and you can enjoy life from that point on as an open member of society the same as anyone else. Unless of course we do all end up dying and there's nobody to wake you up but I mean I feel like you probably wouldn't mind sleeping through the end of civilization and given enough time a sun will blow up and you'll end up reset and you can try again from there"....

    Like I mean, I'm just saying. There's a good chance she might have gone for that. Like eh what the hell. I could use a good thousand year nap. Wake me up when the war's over.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    So we allready have a contender. This would make his role in Way of X both ironic and fitting (he created his own vision of how Krakoa would rise and fall in his splintered mind). Also would be a neat way to explain how Orchis could get their hands on him.
    So we can have three Moiras: Ex-mutant reincarnator Moira, Shi'ar Golem Moira and Legion's AoX Moira... I bet Legion could put AoX Moira in a clone body.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member Stormultt Divine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    928

    Default

    Lol funny how unmentioned she was before HOXPOX by casual comic readers but sure jan.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •