I miss the old Moira

**Brian B** · 01-10-2022, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by davetvs

I never cared about Moira before, but she has been completely and totally elevated in this new era. HOXPOX is a masterclass in retconning done right, which is so rare, I still can't believe it was successfully pulled off with a franchise as massive as X-Men.

A “masterclass in retconning done right” — no, it was not.

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**LordUltimus** · 01-21-2022, 11:16 AM

And of course, there's the fact that no one at Marvel has noticed the implications of retconning Proteus's birth. Originally, Moira's husband was an abusive ******* that once beat her up so bad that she ended up in a coma for two weeks, and Proteus was heavily implied to be a child of rape. Now granted, "she married him for his genes but didn't know what she was getting into" is a possibility at this point, I'm not denying that, but as of right now, it really seems like they're going "Oh, actually, the supposed rape victim was actually manipulating the supposed rapist all along".

**Houseofhick** · 01-21-2022, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Saithor

It hasn't? Like other have pointed out, if you just try to look at the broad strokes and really suspend your disbelief, it works but once you start focusing on details it really can start to fall apart. Not that I blame them because it would have been impossible to make something this large work with essentially sixty years of past books. Especially with something as prolific as X-men. I think as time goes one we'll see...well either someone is going to do an X-book version of the Osbourne Journal or something to make things move more smoothly.

It's not impossible it just takes some creative story telling. If the X-Men 92 universe leave it open for Moira to be a mutant WITHOUT the need of a retcon then the 616 can do it too.

**LordUltimus** · 01-21-2022, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Houseofhick

It's not impossible it just takes some creative story telling. If the X-Men 92 universe leave it open for Moira to be a mutant WITHOUT the need of a retcon then the 616 can do it too.

What? The 92 universe never did that what are you talking about?

**Rev9** · 01-21-2022, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Frontier

But at the end of the day, Mutants view it as genocide. And I think the old Moira would've felt the same, but she was a woman of common sense and temper.

Probably a majority, but it's ridiculous to say all mutants would refuse to take a cure, definitely a few would for personal reasons. If they were given an individual choice, it wouldn't be genocide. I personally think she's focussing on a species war , without heeding the lessons of life 6 that teach machines make humanity, mutants or homo novissima irrelevant. However the writers have funnelled this into an inevitable conundrum of placing mutants as both anti sentient technology while embracing genetic engineering and biotechnology itself laced with alien technology via Doug so it's a hypocritical stance because in essence mutants defeat phalanx by embracing the phalanx but don't want humanity to do the same?

**LordUltimus** · 01-21-2022, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by davetvs

I never cared about Moira before, but she has been completely and totally elevated in this new era. HOXPOX is a masterclass in retconning done right, which is so rare, I still can't believe it was successfully pulled off with a franchise as massive as X-Men.

She has been replaced by a completely different character. That is not retconning done right. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.

**Houseofhick** · 01-21-2022, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by LordUltimus

What? The 92 universe never did that what are you talking about?

I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read it but let's just say the House Of X version of this universe that's coming out in April doesn't require a retcon IF they use the story that's already there.

**LordUltimus** · 01-21-2022, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Houseofhick

I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read it but let's just say the House Of X version of this universe that's coming out in April doesn't require a retcon IF they use the story that's already there.

Well, I'll have to take your word for it until then. For now, though, all I can do is comment on the things that I currently have, and what I have seems to be a very very poorly implemented retcon.

**Houseofhick** · 01-21-2022, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by LordUltimus

Well, I'll have to take your word for it until then. For now, though, all I can do is comment on the things that I currently have, and what I have seems to be a very very poorly implemented retcon.

It may seem a very poorly implemented retcon but that doesn't mean it WILL be a very poorly implemented retcon. If a story is not finished then I don't think anyone can say it's a poor retcon.
Do the mutants always lose? Will the answer be the same in 2 years time?

**LordUltimus** · 01-21-2022, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Houseofhick

It may seem a very poorly implemented retcon but that doesn't mean it WILL be a very poorly implemented retcon. If a story is not finished then I don't think anyone can say it's a poor retcon.
Do the mutants always lose? Will the answer be the same in 2 years time?

I'm just saying, you can only judge a story by how it currently is, not how it might be. If I read a book that's part of a series that I didn't like, I'd acknowledge that a future entry might fix it, but until said entry is released I still don't like it.

**Houseofhick** · 01-21-2022, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by LordUltimus

I'm just saying, you can only judge a story by how it currently is, not how it might be. If I read a book that's part of a series that I didn't like, I'd acknowledge that a future entry might fix it, but until said entry is released I still don't like it.

Do you continue reading this era?

**LordUltimus** · 01-21-2022, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Houseofhick

Do you continue reading this era?

I am. There's still good in it. Ewing's stuff, for instance. I just don't like some rather large parts of it.

**Houseofhick** · 01-21-2022, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by LordUltimus

I am. There's still good in it. Ewing's stuff, for instance. I just don't like some rather large parts of it.

Just keep telling yourself it's going to be fixed one day and keep enjoying the stuff you do read.
When you get to a point where a certain story or writer takes the enjoyment out of reading the X-Men then that's the sauce that stings.

**MythicalChicken** · 01-21-2022, 07:47 PM

As far as retcons go, Moira's a fascinating case.

First off, I always wondered how only ONE human ever got the Legacy Virus ever since that plot point started. Well duh, she's actually a mutant. First thing I thought reading HoXPoX

It also made her corruption by Shadow King all the more interesting. The other is it makes re-reading Moira appearances have so much more subtext

**LordUltimus** · 01-21-2022, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by MythicalChicken

As far as retcons go, Moira's a fascinating case.

First off, I always wondered how only ONE human ever got the Legacy Virus ever since that plot point started. Well duh, she's actually a mutant. First thing I thought reading HoXPoX

It also made her corruption by Shadow King all the more interesting. The other is it makes re-reading Moira appearances have so much more subtext

I thought the whole point of her powers was that she was immune to anything that would usually affect mutants anyways, like Cerebro. If that's the case, the Legacy Virus shouldn't affect her anyways.

It made her corruption less interesting because she was already corrupt.

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