I miss the old Moira

[superjosh]

Accept and like are two different things

That’s fair. But I don’t often see acceptance. I get that it’s a discussion board but there’s so much resistance to change and modernization that it just makes it hard to drown out the negativity and actually discuss.

[Omega Alpha]

Lol funny how unmentioned she was before HOXPOX by casual comic readers but sure jan.

Yeah, she was a mostly forgotten, barely mentioned character and after being unusued for 20 years, everyone was crazy for her and hates to see her being "destroyed". I bet as much as you want that nearly all the people complaining would be mad if Hickman made an original character so relevant and say they should have used an existing one instead, someone like...Moira.

[LordUltimus]

Yeah, she was a mostly forgotten, barely mentioned character and after being unusued for 20 years, everyone was crazy for her and hates to see her being "destroyed". I bet as much as you want that nearly all the people complaining would be mad if Hickman made an original character so relevant and say they should have used an existing one instead, someone like...Moira.

I can't speak for everyone, but I sure as hell wouldn't. I've wanted Moira back for years, just not like this.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I can't speak for everyone, but I sure as hell wouldn't. I've wanted Moira back for years, just not like this.

Same.

What, we don't get a say because we didn't lead a march for Moira's resurrection?

[superjosh]

My two cents: I still see Moira in Moira X. What's been done to make her a mutant and retcon her storyline is done, so what we have left is the characterization.

I still see a driven, stubborn, brilliant, and unstoppable woman. Moira X to me is Moira MacTaggert driven to the brink of madness with what she's had to endure. At the core, she still wants to help mutantkind and that's really the essence of her character. (She was always the person, i.e. plot device, that the X-Men went to for help.) Only, she has become this sort of mad scientist version of herself.

I'll have to re-read Inferno #4 and I don't want to give any spoilers away, but I haven't completely dissected that last thing she revealed about her intentions. But I still think it fits.

[Habis]

Same.

What, we don't get a say because we didn't lead a march for Moira's resurrection?

If people had demanded the return of Moira, they would say "what are you complaining for? we gave you what you asked for!"

[LordUltimus]

My two cents: I still see Moira in Moira X. What's been done to make her a mutant and retcon her storyline is done, so what we have left is the characterization.

I still see a driven, stubborn, brilliant, and unstoppable woman. Moira X to me is Moira MacTaggert driven to the brink of madness with what she's had to endure. At the core, she still wants to help mutantkind and that's really the essence of her character. (She was always the person, i.e. plot device, that the X-Men went to for help.) Only, she has become this sort of mad scientist version of herself.

I'll have to re-read Inferno #4 and I don't want to give any spoilers away, but I haven't completely dissected that last thing she revealed about her intentions. But I still think it fits.

Except no, because now know she wanted to depower mutants all along.

[superjosh]

Except no, because now know she wanted to depower mutants all along.

I said I was trying to go for no spoilers lol!

It's my opinion that it still fits. One of Moira's lives was devoted to that and that's when Destiny burned her, IIRC. I think it was her second life and it was a misguided attempt (much like Wanda) to "solve" the problem. Now in life X, she's at her "wit's end", so to speak, and is going back to that insane thought process. Like I said, I haven't personally figured out what I think of what she said in Inferno #4. Gotta re-read!

[Omega Alpha]

My two cents: I still see Moira in Moira X. What's been done to make her a mutant and retcon her storyline is done, so what we have left is the characterization.

I still see a driven, stubborn, brilliant, and unstoppable woman. Moira X to me is Moira MacTaggert driven to the brink of madness with what she's had to endure. At the core, she still wants to help mutantkind and that's really the essence of her character. (She was always the person, i.e. plot device, that the X-Men went to for help.) Only, she has become this sort of mad scientist version of herself.

I'll have to re-read Inferno #4 and I don't want to give any spoilers away, but I haven't completely dissected that last thing she revealed about her intentions. But I still think it fits.

Well said.

Same.

What, we don't get a say because we didn't lead a march for Moira's resurrection?

If you didn't care enough that she was dead for 20 years, and her death isn't a pivotal moment in the franchise, like Gwen Stacy's, it's hard to believe you care so much now.

[Ambaryerno]

The development was her being a mutant all along and living nine lives where mutants lose. Then keeping her ultimate goal hidden in the end, it wasnt as OUT there of a conclusion to me.

I had wackier ideas of what would happen to her.

No, that's not development.

Character experiences something. Character changes as a result of those experiences. THAT is development.

Taking decades of history and storytelling clearly establishing Moira as a baseline human and steadfast support of Xavier, and then simply FLIPPING A SWITCH BY EDITORIAL FIAT to "Oh, she's really a mutant, and has been all this time" is NOT development.

[LordUltimus]

I said I was trying to go for no spoilers lol!

It's my opinion that it still fits. One of Moira's lives was devoted to that and that's when Destiny burned her, IIRC. I think it was her second life and it was a misguided attempt (much like Wanda) to "solve" the problem. Now in life X, she's at her "wit's end", so to speak, and is going back to that insane thought process. Like I said, I haven't personally figured out what I think of what she said in Inferno #4. Gotta re-read!

You do realize that that's not helping mutants.

[superjosh]

No, that's not development.

Character experiences something. Character changes as a result of those experiences. THAT is development.

It doesn't have to happen in that order as long as the development happens somewhere down the line, and it surely did.

Take Ninja Psylocke, for example. She was turned into Asian Ninja first, then developed (and then ret-conned, but that's beside the point).

[superjosh]

You do realize that that's not helping mutants.

I said the core of the character is that she wants to help mutantkind. Her efforts to cure them were born out of that desire. And again, it's just like Wanda thought she was helping with NO MORE MUTANTS. You're just looking at it in black and white so that you can just say no to everything.

[LordUltimus]

It doesn't have to happen in that order as long as the development happens somewhere down the line, and it surely did.

Take Ninja Psylocke, for example. She was turned into Asian Ninja first, then developed (and then ret-conned, but that's beside the point).

What? Psylocke is completely different! She wasn't retconned to be an Asian Ninja all along, she was literally brainswapped with an Asian Ninja!

[Omega Alpha]

No, that's not development.

Character experiences something. Character changes as a result of those experiences. THAT is development.

Taking decades of history and storytelling clearly establishing Moira as a baseline human and steadfast support of Xavier, and then simply FLIPPING A SWITCH BY EDITORIAL FIAT to "Oh, she's really a mutant, and has been all this time" is NOT development.

Moira being a mutant is not more of a retcon than Moira existing and being Xavier's right hand woman despite the fact neither Xavier nor the X-men met, mentioned or talked about her for 60+ issues. Or Xavier and Magneto being buddies and we only discover this after 20 years.