I miss the old Moira

[Frontier]

This puts words to a sentiment I've felt for a long time in the Krakoan era. They pretty much have no human close human allies like Moira, and Pumpkin King's comparison of her and Maddy is pretty apt. They're unintentionally stating that being an human ally to mutants is either exceedingly rare OR comes at the cost of utterly destroying you as a character. It's in the strong interpersonal connections with the mundane folks around them that really made some of X-Men's best scenes.

Well, Wolverine has that FBI guy...I guess...and there was that woman from the X-Desk they helped who is maybe/kinda/sorta in their backpocket?

[BobbysWorld]

This puts words to a sentiment I've felt for a long time in the Krakoan era. They pretty much have no human close human allies like Moira, and Pumpkin King's comparison of her and Maddy is pretty apt. They're unintentionally stating that being an human ally to mutants is either exceedingly rare OR comes at the cost of utterly destroying you as a character. It's in the strong interpersonal connections with the mundane folks around them that really made some of X-Men's best scenes.

Like honestly, if nothing else, we should see Ma Guthrie living on the island with her entire clan of mostly mutant kids plus the couple who haven't yet manifested. She's been nothing but ride or die for her mutant children from day one and always opened up her home to any and all of Sam's mutant classmates and friends from New Mutants and X-Force. Its one thing if we're ever shown she just doesn't want to move to Krakoa, but having lost one son to violence against mutants once and being savvy enough to be aware of how the heightened scrutiny towards mutants now that Krakoa exists might end up endangering her other children if and when they manifest if they're still off the island at the time.....like, I'm just saying she's a prime example of a human ally who should've been delivered a hand-written personal invitation to move to the island with her younger kids and be able to be with the rest of her family without fearing they'll be subjected to violence from her neighbors the next time they come home for a visit.

Like, if Xavier and the Quiet Council can't make a case for making a place for Mrs. Guthrie to live on the island with her kids, what are they even doing, y'know? Amidst the mixed bag that is human relatives of major X-Men characters, with some accepting of their X-Men children and others stand-offish or outright rejecting them, Mrs. Guthrie's always been pointed to by the various teachers in Sam and Paige's lives as the epitome of what they hoped human acceptance of mutants could look like in greater numbers in the future: a devoted human mother who's children keep turning out to be mutants that she's raised to be the kind of people looked to as future leaders among mutantkind....in large part because she absolutely will charge out the door wielding a shotgun in your face if you lift a hand to one of her kids, whether its one of her mutant children or one of her human kids, with it making absolutely no difference to her either way.

[Zelena]

Yes, OP, I never recognize the stubborn but warm and humane woman I used to read the stories in the past in this new “Moira”…

But it is also the case for almost all these “new X-men”…

[Doom'nGloom]

You know what Moira X retcon reminds me of, Stevil from Secret Empire. So I guess that was character progression too.

[Metal Sphere]

Like honestly, if nothing else, we should see Ma Guthrie living on the island with her entire clan of mostly mutant kids plus the couple who haven't yet manifested. She's been nothing but ride or die for her mutant children from day one and always opened up her home to any and all of Sam's mutant classmates and friends from New Mutants and X-Force. Its one thing if we're ever shown she just doesn't want to move to Krakoa, but having lost one son to violence against mutants once and being savvy enough to be aware of how the heightened scrutiny towards mutants now that Krakoa exists might end up endangering her other children if and when they manifest if they're still off the island at the time.....like, I'm just saying she's a prime example of a human ally who should've been delivered a hand-written personal invitation to move to the island with her younger kids and be able to be with the rest of her family without fearing they'll be subjected to violence from her neighbors the next time they come home for a visit.

Like, if Xavier and the Quiet Council can't make a case for making a place for Mrs. Guthrie to live on the island with her kids, what are they even doing, y'know? Amidst the mixed bag that is human relatives of major X-Men characters, with some accepting of their X-Men children and others stand-offish or outright rejecting them, Mrs. Guthrie's always been pointed to by the various teachers in Sam and Paige's lives as the epitome of what they hoped human acceptance of mutants could look like in greater numbers in the future: a devoted human mother who's children keep turning out to be mutants that she's raised to be the kind of people looked to as future leaders among mutantkind....in large part because she absolutely will charge out the door wielding a shotgun in your face if you lift a hand to one of her kids, whether its one of her mutant children or one of her human kids, with it making absolutely no difference to her either way.

Exactly, BobbysWorld. Ma Guthrie is exactly we needed more of in this run, and precisely for this reason. We keep hearing about the great mutant success story this is, but what it ultimately came off as was turning mutants into drug dealers who kill/subvert anyone who doesn't take the deal. Regularly showing folks like Ma Guthrie living on the island itself, and increasing the frequency in which you show that X-Desk character Dolores, and Wolverine's FBI friend (good calls, Frontier) would make it clear that progress on coexistence was being made, visibly. Where the relationship wasn't just transactional and liable to tip into violence the moment suspicions boil over. These regular old human folks having good relationships with mutants are walking, talking examples of the dream.

[Frostfire]

It kind of feels like the real world with the polarization of the political spectrum. So again art imitating life.

[H-E-D]

Lol funny how unmentioned she was before HOXPOX by casual comic readers but sure jan.

Right. For all the bitching about how “important” she was as a human ally... she’d been dead for multiple decades and people barely blinked.

[Doom'nGloom]

Right. For all the bitching about how “important” she was as a human ally... she’d been dead for multiple decades and people barely blinked.

Mar-Vell has been dead for the most part since 1982. Is it okay to bring him back and say "lol he's always been a Skrull pretending to be Kree oh and his ultimate goal was to take over the earth"

[Spiderfan001]

You know what Moira X retcon reminds me of, Stevil from Secret Empire. So I guess that was character progression too.

I can agree except it's Captain America vs a character most modern comics fans don't know or care about

In no way am I saying that the later is okay, still think it's not.

This "change" made her relevant and exciting, but at the cost of her loosing herself.So I think it's a loss for Moira fans(which I haven't seen any before krakoa but I'm sure they do exist) but a gain for people who like the new character which I and others did enjoy.

[Doom'nGloom]

I can agree except it's Captain America vs a character most modern comics fans don't know or care about

In no way am I saying that the later is okay, still think it's not.

This "change" made her relevant and exciting, but at the cost of her loosing herself.So I think it's a loss for Moira fans(which I haven't seen any before krakoa but I'm sure they do exist) but a gain for people who like the new character which I and others did enjoy.

I get that. I just generally dislike it when writers bend a character to make him/her fit their story. Makes them feel less like characters and more like tools to further the story.

[Spiderfan001]

I get that. I just generally dislike it when writers bend a character to make he/she fit their story. Makes them feel less like characters and more like tools to further the story.

Absolutely, I understand agree w/ that sentiment.

[H-E-D]

Mar-Vell has been dead for the most part since 1982. Is it okay to bring him back and say "lol he's always been a Skrull pretending to be Kree oh and he's ultimate goal was to take over the earth"

If the story was good enough, sure, why not.

But the real problem there is that Mar-Vell’s death made him more important. Moira’s death made her unimportant. The only real legacy of Moira’s death was that arc where Banshee went all fasc, and I guess that she wasn’t around to yell at Chuck about Deadly Genesis.

[Doom'nGloom]

If the story was good enough, sure, why not.

But the real problem there is that Mar-Vell’s death made him more important. Moira’s death made her unimportant. The only real legacy of Moira’s death was that arc where Banshee went all fasc, and I guess that she wasn’t around to yell at Chuck about Deadly Genesis.

I guess we disagree on a fundamental level. I don't wanna see characters acting ooc to get a good story.

[LordUltimus]

Right. For all the bitching about how “important” she was as a human ally... she’d been dead for multiple decades and people barely blinked.

I recall PLENTY of people complaining over the past two decades about the complete lack of human allies and how we used to have one in Moira.

[jwatson]

I can honestly say before this era i have never once said or thought "i wonder what moira is up to."