I miss the old Moira

[cranger]

There are so many problems with her being a mutant.

I have said that from the start, although I always saw that Hickman had a plan to put it all back the way we knew.

[Wolverine12]

I think we might get old Moira back before the end of Krakoa. I know she didnt technically get fridged but she low key did for Krakoa.

I don't know how you could argue she was fridged. She is more relevant now than she ever has been and she didn't need a man to make her that way either. I'm curious what your argument would be for that if you care to share.

[LordUltimus]

I don't know how you could argue she was fridged. She is more relevant now than she ever has been and she didn't need a man to make her that way either. I'm curious what your argument would be for that if you care to share.

Her entire motivation revolves around making Charles Xavier miserable. She definitely needs a man to make it that way.

[Frontier]

I wouldn't say she's been fridged but she's not even the same character and barely even makes sense.

[Havok83]

The recontextualization of Moira under Hickman that made her relevant this era was brilliant. I prefered her as the human ally she was but what he did worked and she was still enjoyable. IMO, she stopped being a character when he left. Percy with the Wolverine minis destroyed her and she effectively died there. Moira X is NOT Moira. She's literally an A.I, cosplaying as Moira and I dont think she should be ackowledged as the real deal bc she isnt

#JUSTICEFORMOIRA

[The Cool Thatguy]

The recontextualization of Moira under Hickman that made her relevant this era was brilliant. I prefered her as the human ally she was but what he did worked and she was still enjoyable. IMO, she stopped being a character when he left. Percy with the Wolverine minis destroyed her and she effectively died there. Moira X is NOT Moira. She's literally an A.I, cosplaying as Moira and I dont think she should be ackowledged as the real deal bc she isnt

#JUSTICEFORMOIRA

I'd argue that Moira X has been cosplaying as Moira since the beginning and that yes, she has been fridged.

Moira was revived solely for the sake of handing Charles and Erik the island paradise on a platter. Anything that might give her depth or agency of her own (like, her daughter Rahne, son Proteus or lover Sean) is glossed over and ignored. And then she's transformed into a monster for them to angst over.

Everything that made Moira Moira has been ignored, swept aside or destroyed for the sake of two men's relationship.

[CGAR]

I don't know how you could argue she was fridged. She is more relevant now than she ever has been and she didn't need a man to make her that way either. I'm curious what your argument would be for that if you care to share.

Well she was brought back in a monumental way for HoXPoX and then relegated to the No Place and making no more big appearance until Inferno. Was that two or three years in? Any appearances she had between that were not significant. It was basically just a holder story beat they had in place that they couldn’t make work. We know that there was supposed to be a Moira focused book. But my point was Krakoa moved forward with Eric and Xavier while she got stuck behind the scenes because no one was supposed to know she was alive but then when everyone found out no one cared. I said she was “kind of fridged but not” to develop more stories for Krakoa. Which Xavier and Magneto have been prominent in. Moira didn’t really come back til that Wolverine X Lives and X Deaths.

[Wolverine12]

Well she was brought back in a monumental way for HoXPoX and then relegated to the No Place and making no more big appearance until Inferno. Was that two or three years in? Any appearances she had between that were not significant. It was basically just a holder story beat they had in place that they couldn’t make work. We know that there was supposed to be a Moira focused book. But my point was Krakoa moved forward with Eric and Xavier while she got stuck behind the scenes because no one was supposed to know she was alive but then when everyone found out no one cared. I said she was “kind of fridged but not” to develop more stories for Krakoa. Which Xavier and Magneto have been prominent in. Moira didn’t really come back til that Wolverine X Lives and X Deaths.

I can see your point there. I would counter that she played a prominent role in Inferno which was Hickman’s next book after he left X-Men. We know that Hickman’s plans were set aside so I can see how extending the Krakoa time line would cast her aside for awhile. Thanks for sharing!

[Wolverine12]

Her entire motivation revolves around making Charles Xavier miserable. She definitely needs a man to make it that way.

You could replace Charles with Mystique and Destiny though and it would still be an accurate assessment. She seems more focused on Mutants as a whole than Charles specifically.

[LordUltimus]

You could replace Charles with Mystique and Destiny though and it would still be an accurate assessment. She seems more focused on Mutants as a whole than Charles specifically.

A) She was already focused on mutants as a whole pre-retcon, and B) Hellfire Gala, it's not Mystique or Destiny she singles out, it's Charles.

[Havok83]

You could replace Charles with Mystique and Destiny though and it would still be an accurate assessment. She seems more focused on Mutants as a whole than Charles specifically.

Good point. Moira X has made Destiny more relevant thatn she's arguably ever been

[Saithor]

I mean honestly at this point what I’m thinking is: Did Krakoa even need Moira X to exist?

[Wolverine12]

A) She was already focused on mutants as a whole pre-retcon, and B) Hellfire Gala, it's not Mystique or Destiny she singles out, it's Charles.

Inferno happened. Even if we ignore that, her targeting Charles specifically isn't in any way the definition of fridging. She didn't die to advance Charles pain/story, she didn't even become an AI because of Chuck. She's not solely there to advance a male characters story. CGAR raised a good point because she did disappear for awhile but even then she came back in a major and still major role.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Inferno happened. Even if we ignore that, her targeting Charles specifically isn't in any way the definition of fridging. She didn't die to advance Charles pain/story, she didn't even become an AI because of Chuck. She's not solely there to advance a male characters story. CGAR raised a good point because she did disappear for awhile but even then she came back in a major and still major role.

Moira's entire character has been altered and destroyed so that Chuck might have an enemy to angst about.

If that's not fridging, I don't know what is.

[Grunty]

Moira's entire character has been altered and destroyed so that Chuck might have an enemy to angst about.

If that's not fridging, I don't know what is.

Careless character assassination ("(idiomatic) A malicious discourse designed to damage the reputation of someone.") might be the more appropriate term.

Especially since the destruction of the character was arguably not done for the sake of a story about Charles as the main character, but rather to change the entire history of the X-men in order to fit a writer's supposed "grand epic" science fiction story about black hole god being, dystopian unavoidable timeline progressions, alternate erased universes and the rise and fall of a super human society.

For this purpose the writer essentialy created an entirely new character and introduced her into the backround of all X-men history via a massive retcon that recontextualizes 60 years of published history, on pannel events and characterization, as having been part of a grander shady machination and not what the reader was supposed to think it was.
But in what seems to be an attempt at giving her "legitimacy" she got the name and appearance of an allready existing character slapped on, even though it actualy means erasing everything established about said character as being fake or just an act.

When one looks at it from a distant, it can be argued that nothing about HOX/POX actualy required the new character to have been Moira MacTaggart, since nothing of Moira's previous established characterization and personality was required or used for the story at all.

The writer could have named her Molly O'Malley, with a different appearance and design and HOX/POX's story and end result would have basicly been the same. The only difference would be a lack of "Oh no! She wasn't what we thought she was the entire time!" moment, but given that few fans seem to have actualy been shocked or bothered by it and given the scope of just how much had been retconned, it's likely that the introduction of an entirely new character in the same role wouldn't have bothered them either.

However if character assassination is the more appropiate term, it wasn't done out of what seems to have been malice but rather callous disregard and indifference towards the damage done to an allready established character and her published stories.