Selina Kyle: Catwoman 2022 Appreciation Thread

[godisawesome]

I appreciated the Balent era for what it was. Like this really fun, heist, action-movie run with a kind of pure thrillseeking thief Catwoman. I think there's definitely some prime aspects of Selina that are demonstrated there.

To me it looks like they're really not over each other otherwise the moments would feel less powerful and intimate.

I think it definitely came later.

Why doesn't it feel natural?

The “Balent Era” is a funny thing because it’s defined by the artist, rather than the writer, which is the opposite of most of the 90’s for the Batman books. And since Balent started out cheesecakey and ended up one of the patron saints of cheesecake and unrealistic proportions, the era has a somewhat underserved reputation as pure hormonal fan service… but it was a 90’s Batman comic that saw some of the usual writing suspects get turns at it, which means it of course has some real gems spread throughout its run, even if Selina’s constantly walking around with a spray paint suit.

When done right, the “super-thief” archetype was a hell of a lot of fun with a strong personality - and while Balent’s most infamous for trying to make any pose by Catwoman look like a pin-up drawing, when paired with the best writers he tended to also supply some fun facial expressions.

If Dixon, Moench, Grayson, or Ostrander we’re writing stuff… then I’d argue you’d get stuff on-par with Brubaker’s run, merely in a more escapist and blockbuster way.

…Though yeah, if Balent was the main power behind the book alone, you were mostly looking at “A new butterfly themed supervillainess who’s costume is a semi-translucent nightie! And she always stands in front of light!” As about the standard.

[Starrius]

I appreciated the Balent era for what it was. Like this really fun, heist, action-movie run with a kind of pure thrillseeking thief Catwoman. I think there's definitely some prime aspects of Selina that are demonstrated there.

To me it looks like they're really not over each other otherwise the moments would feel less powerful and intimate.

I think it definitely came later.

Why doesn't it feel natural?

I am wondering too. It feels natural to me. I read that whole Catwoman series.

I got the impression that Bruce and Selina really cared for each other


There were a lot of nice moments between them in 2000s.

I liked Hush and Heart of Hush


yeah.....I remembered reading the date. It was issue #32. Bruce was very happy that Selina wasn't dead after she went away to take care of some business.

There was nothing forced about how they were behaving in that comic issue.

Bruce spent the night with Selina more than once in that Catwoman series. There was tension between him and Slam Bradley.


BTW.....I strongly dislike King's writing.........I am glad that his Batman/Catwoman mini-series isn't canon. I thought it was awful. I thought he made Selina and Helena look really bad.

[phonogram12]

I appreciated the Balent era for what it was. Like this really fun, heist, action-movie run with a kind of pure thrillseeking thief Catwoman. I think there's definitely some prime aspects of Selina that are demonstrated there.

To each their own. I just really couldn't see Batman even tolerate this version of Selina, let alone see her in a romantic light.

To me it looks like they're really not over each other otherwise the moments would feel less powerful and intimate.

I don't know what else to say other than I disagree. At most, I can see them being friends with benefits, emphasis on friends.

I think it definitely came later.

Why doesn't it feel natural?

While Brubaker is one of my favorite writers and I very much did enjoy Officer Down and Fugitive, I just never felt he got Bruce's voice quite right.

[Frontier]

To each their own. I just really couldn't see Batman even tolerate this version of Selina, let alone see her in a romantic light.

I think the idea is that her playfullness and zest is able to get through to his stoic professionalism.

I don't know what else to say other than I disagree. At most, I can see them being friends with benefits, emphasis on friends.

That was basically the New 52, but I feel like they're way too passionate about each other to ever be just friends in the long-term.

While Brubaker is one of my favorite writers and I very much did enjoy Officer Down and Fugitive, I just never felt he got Bruce's voice quite right.

I think Brubaker was worse with the villain voices than Bruce's voice.

[phonogram12]

I think the idea is that her playfullness and zest is able to get through to his stoic professionalism.

I get that. I just didn't see that as playfulness so much as immaturity.

That was basically the New 52, but I feel like they're way too passionate about each other to ever be just friends in the long-term.

Like I said, I really didn't get that until King.

I think Brubaker was worse with the villain voices than Bruce's voice.

See, I feel the opposite. If there's one thing Brubaker knows how to get right, it's the voices of criminals (hell, he has an entire creator-owned series called just that).

[Frontier]

I get that. I just didn't see that as playfulness so much as immaturity.

I guess there's a fine line between being immature and being a free spirit? I don't really see Selina as immature beyond just being kind of spontaneous and aggressive.

Like I said, I really didn't get that until King.

I felt like it was always there for a long time and King just brought it to the forefront, but to each their own.

See, I feel the opposite. If there's one thing Brubaker knows how to get right, it's the voices of criminals (hell, he has an entire creator-owned series called just that).

The problems is that the Rogues aren't just criminals, they're larger than life characters and Supervillains. The only ones who I think would come off like normal criminals that you'd find palling around with a Lawless are Penguin and maybe Two-Face.

Of course Brubaker was more focused on the Moxxon family than he was writing any of the main villains other than that arc where it seemed like they were getting knocked off (I think Two-Face was the main villain?).

[phonogram12]

The problems is that the Rogues aren't just criminals, they're larger than life characters and Supervillains. The only ones who I think would come off like normal criminals that you'd find palling around with a Lawless are Penguin and maybe Two-Face.

Of course Brubaker was more focused on the Moxxon family than he was writing any of the main villains other than that arc where it seemed like they were getting knocked off (I think Two-Face was the main villain?).

The thing is, I generally prefer it when villains are treated like real people as opposed over-the-top caricatures. I mean, I loved the way he wrote Captain Cold during Selina's road trip arc. Mustache twirling supervillains can be a bit much sometimes.

[Frontier]

The thing is, I generally prefer it when villains are treated like real people as opposed over-the-top caricatures. I mean, I loved the way he wrote Captain Cold during Selina's road trip arc. Mustache twirling supervillains can be a bit much sometimes.

Captain Cold is probably one of the more "real" Supervillains in comics, but I don't really view characters like Joker, Riddler, Scarecrow, or even Ivy or Harley as very realistic people even if there are parts of their motivations and personalities that feel real.

Selina by comparison is pretty grounded but she's also a woman who loves stealing and flaunting herself in a skintight catsuit.

[phonogram12]

Captain Cold is probably one of the more "real" Supervillains in comics, but I don't really view characters like Joker, Riddler, Scarecrow, or even Ivy or Harley as very realistic people even if there are parts of their motivations and personalities that feel real.

I thought (and liked) the way Brubaker wrote Joker in The Man Who Laughs. I also enjoyed Azzarello's Joker graphic novel. I thought they were both pretty realistic portrayals of The Joker. And depending on who's writing Harley, that character can be very realistic (at least in terms of how she uses her sense of humor to mask how unhappy she is in a clearly toxic relationship and how she moves on from that). I also enjoyed this latest version of the Riddler we got in the movie. And have you ever read the Rucka written issues of Detective where Ivy took over a city park? Another villain story very much in the Brubaker vein that I enjoyed immensely.

Selina by comparison is pretty grounded but she's also a woman who loves stealing and flaunting herself in a skintight catsuit.

The former I have little issue with. The way many writers and artists portrayed the latter I just didn't care for very much.

[Robanker]

I appreciated the Balent era for what it was. Like this really fun, heist, action-movie run with a kind of pure thrillseeking thief Catwoman. I think there's definitely some prime aspects of Selina that are demonstrated there.

To me it looks like they're really not over each other otherwise the moments would feel less powerful and intimate.

I think it definitely came later.

Why doesn't it feel natural?

I feel much the same about the Balent Era. It's still my favorite costume for Selina when not drawn with boob socks.

Cooke is still objectively the best she's ever looked, though.

[godisawesome]

I feel much the same about the Balent Era. It's still my favorite costume for Selina when not drawn with boob socks.

Cooke is still objectively the best she's ever looked, though.

My only issue with Cooke is that sometimes he gave Selina a bit too much “model face” - that sort of blank, flat expression that’s dependent on an intense gaze for “life,” but is also thus kind of static.

Othweise, Cooke was always the best at making that design for Catwoman look classy and sexy at the same time, because let’s just say that there were plenty of artists who could make the biker look seem just as salacious as even Balent’s late-era purple suit - but arguably trashier, since it frequently involved unzipping her jacket in a somewhat sloppy way.

Balent’s later stuff was so exaggerated it became almost a parody of itself - but prime Balent had a great “grumpy cat” face for Selina, alongside an excellent “Cheshire cat” grin, and just generally had a great handle on an expressive Catwoman.

[Frontier]

I thought (and liked) the way Brubaker wrote Joker in The Man Who Laughs. I also enjoyed Azzarello's Joker graphic novel. I thought they were both pretty realistic portrayals of The Joker. And depending on who's writing Harley, that character can be very realistic (at least in terms of how she uses her sense of humor to mask how unhappy she is in a clearly toxic relationship and how she moves on from that). I also enjoyed this latest version of the Riddler we got in the movie. And have you ever read the Rucka written issues of Detective where Ivy took over a city park? Another villain story very much in the Brubaker vein that I enjoyed immensely.

I also enjoyed The Man Who Laughs though I wouldn't put it in my top favorite Joker portrayals, personally.

I'm not saying you can't depict the characters more grounded and realistically like the movies have been, just that they don't naturally present themselves that way, particularly the comic versions. And I'd rather it stay that way otherwise it would take all the fun out of it.

I have written those Rucka issues with Ivy but I'm not sure I could see Brubaker doing something like that, because that feels more in-line with what I'm talking about when it comes to the Rogues Gallery. I think Rucka was a little bit more into it than Brubaker, but outside a few exceptions (Two-Face, Black Mask, etc.) I've never particularly thought of either of them as major Rogues writers.

The former I have little issue with. The way many writers and artists portrayed the latter I just didn't care for very much.

How so? Because it comes off as immature to you? Because she's worn a catsuit for, like, 90% of her existence .

[Robanker]

My only issue with Cooke is that sometimes he gave Selina a bit too much “model face” - that sort of blank, flat expression that’s dependent on an intense gaze for “life,” but is also thus kind of static.

Othweise, Cooke was always the best at making that design for Catwoman look classy and sexy at the same time, because let’s just say that there were plenty of artists who could make the biker look seem just as salacious as even Balent’s late-era purple suit - but arguably trashier, since it frequently involved unzipping her jacket in a somewhat sloppy way.

Balent’s later stuff was so exaggerated it became almost a parody of itself - but prime Balent had a great “grumpy cat” face for Selina, alongside an excellent “Cheshire cat” grin, and just generally had a great handle on an expressive Catwoman.

Yeah, as with lots of costumes, the problems are more the artists finding a way to perv on the character. I think the early Balent costume is great but he made it look very trashy.

Not that I minded as a dumb early teen, but as an adult it does annoy me.

The Cooke costume and artists bringing the zipper down all the time is a more obvious version of that problem.

[Frontier]

Yeah, as with lots of costumes, the problems are more the artists finding a way to perv on the character. I think the early Balent costume is great but he made it look very trashy.

Not that I minded as a dumb early teen, but as an adult it does annoy me.

The Cooke costume and artists bringing the zipper down all the time is a more obvious version of that problem.

I wonder if this says something about how ultimately horny our society is.

[phonogram12]

I also enjoyed The Man Who Laughs though I wouldn't put it in my top favorite Joker portrayals, personally.

I'm not saying you can't depict the characters more grounded and realistically like the movies have been, just that they don't naturally present themselves that way, particularly the comic versions. And I'd rather it stay that way otherwise it would take all the fun out of it.

I guess it just depends on your idea of fun. *shrugs*

I have written those Rucka issues with Ivy but I'm not sure I could see Brubaker doing something like that, because that feels more in-line with what I'm talking about when it comes to the Rogues Gallery.

Ugh! I'd love to see him try, though! He'd be so good at it!

How so? Because it comes off as immature to you? Because she's worn a catsuit for, like, 90% of her existence .

I guess maybe that's my issue. She never really came off as a real character to me. She came off as a caricature of one.