WB /DC doesn’t have much faith in anything that isn’t Batman

[Goldrake]

It isn't nothing. Also, there is such a thing as quality control. Flooding the market is not always a good idea, especially when you're just trying to get new properties over with mainstream audiences. You're also ignoring the numerous graphic novels and spinoff titles WW has gotten recently.

Flooding the market with multiple titles is not always smart business. Marvel does this often with the X-line even when a large number of them are pointless or stupid, and they've been trying it with the Avengers with inconsistent success. And you really want a bunch of soulless media adaptations that just serve as promotion for the movies the way the Avengers cartoons and recent Avengers game turned out?

The issue is more that DC is doing too much with Batman. They're technically doing enough with their other properties or at least starting to.



Every DCEU movie gets dismissed and bashed. Even ones that have nothing to do with Snyder.

I could also point out that this type of stuff have been happening to the DCEU ever since it began with sexist comments directed at Gadot and Addams, the petition sent to the White House to have Snyder removed from BvS before the movie was even released, the insulting comments made after his daughter's suicide, people trying to downplay WW's success (and no, this isn't a Snyder fan thing. I've seen people do this who aren't fans of Snyder either way. Recent examples were made when Patty Jenkins made disparaging comments about streaming movies), just how anyone brings the guy or previous movies up in conversations that have nothing to do with them, bashing Ray Fisher etc.

Anti-DCEU toxicity wasn't invented by Snyder fans and isn't just coming from them. And once more, criticism of WW1984 was not solely a Snyder fan thing. Unless all professional critics suddenly turned out to be Snyder fans over night.

Again I am referring to exploiting the success that movies like WW and Aquaman obtained, you haven't answered what they have done? how did they exploit that success? WW got some graphic novels lately? big deal her movie came out in 2017, Aquaman in 2018 and got DCEU their first billion box office hit, zilch, nada, nothing was done they even got his comic canceled and replaced him with a non selling character. Do you call that exploiting success? They threw away a golden opportunity handed to them by those movies. Why?

Flooding the market with merchandise, brings in kids, kids who watched the movie, their parents will buy that stuff, WB makes money and the character grows in popularity, some may even get into reading comics and a character gains new fans. Maybe you don't like the idea that other characters grow, but that is how business is done.

As for snyder stans you either don't follow twitter or facebook? I haven't seen other DC fans invading discussions about comics or movies with a hastag similar to restoresyderverse. There might be exceptions but not the rule as with that cult, because that what it is becoming.

BTW professional critics also predicted Aquaman was to fail big, they also criticized the dialogue in the movie, as if CBM have to be shakespearean stuff. They tend to have an antiDC bias. However It is the audiences that determine movie success. The latest video sales for WW84 have exceeded expectations and it was only that cult that tried to diminish those sales not professionals or MCU fans etc.

Aquaman doesn't even have an ongoing despite getting a hit movie. We currently have one starring Jackson Hyde and another with Black Manta and that's about it. How does that compute? None of that sounds like a smart business move to me. Plus, it's not like DC doesn't exploit the success of movie franchises, after TDK made a billion and the Bat Embargo got lifted we got endless amounts of Batman focused DTV movies, two animated shows and video games. So why isn't there a bigger follow up for Wonder Woman and Aquaman's success?

As for Snyder fans and toxic fandom in general, without hard numbers it's hard to say how many of the people who criticize WW84 are Snyder fans and wants to restore his universe and how many of them are just regular fans. Though I will note that I don't see other factions of the DCU fandom invade comment sections of projects that have nothing to do with the DCU (i.e Sandman and Sweet Tooth) with the #restorethesnyderverse. Currently, they're the only ones with a clear agenda and organizational ability.

Agreed and Indeed,
I haven't seen fans DC or not, calling the upcoming Flash movie as The Flush, as they are doing. What I have read is people discussing that if that is in Flash they don't agree or they agreed on it etc
One thing is discussing, disagreeing, criticizing, while another thing is constant bashing of non snyder movies. Their latest mantra is that any DC movie that did well has snyder involved somehow and those that didn't he wasn't allowed by DC. They even claim Wan went to him for directions, advice and even with creating the Trench and 7kingdoms. We all know from which comics that stuff came but even those who tried to rebut with evidence that it was false, they keep denying.

[skyvolt2000]

Aquaman doesn't even have an ongoing despite getting a hit movie. We currently have one starring Jackson Hyde and another with Black Manta and that's about it. How does that compute? None of that sounds like a smart business move to me. Plus, it's not like DC doesn't exploit the success of movie franchises, after TDK made a billion and the Bat Embargo got lifted we got endless amounts of Batman focused DTV movies, two animated shows and video games.

From a business stance the Hyde and Manta books make sense in terms of material under the Aquaman banner. However the lack of an ongoing Aquaman book is another story.
Aquaman should have his own book and the planned Aquamen should be a book that is like The Spider-Men books.

So why isn't there a bigger follow up for Wonder Woman and Aquaman's success?

To piggyback on what I talked about yesterday-when it comes to CERTAIN properties they face barriers Batman will NEVER face.

You are still dealing with BIAS. From store owners to certain fans and even employees of the company. Even if you show them how much money was made.

Example Steel and Catwoman were used to justify NOT making Black Panther. The money lost from either Green Lantern or John Carter was more than both of those movies together. Yet how many white lead movies did we see?
Kevin Hart has hit movies WITHOUT China. Adam Sandler and Ben Stiller NEED China and both have more flops than Kevin-who has ONE. Yet Sandler has the movie deal at Netflix.

We all understand. I understand the 50 Batman books. What I don't understand is when other prove their success there is an excuse for it. I don't expect 50 Aquaman books but I would settle for him to get what Shuri is getting. She has a book line (Novels). 6 new books in 2022.

A few shirts? A movie version of his figure? Valentines like Black Panther got.

As for Snyder fans and toxic fandom in general, without hard numbers it's hard to say how many of the people who criticize WW84 are Snyder fans and wants to restore his universe and how many of them are just regular fans.

Regular fans are NOT Snyderverse folks. Regular folks do NOT know the difference NOR do they care.
I have met Aquaman fans who DON'T bother with comics and were EXCITED that he got a movie. Those are the regular folks.

A lot of this toxic fandom mess is a SHOCK to folks when I tell them about it. They can't understand folks ready to commit violence over a Black Johnny Storm or Storm Trooper. Or throwing fits over Ms Marvel or anything being done with the Inhumans and so on.

That is what turns folks off from comics the toxic behavior they hear about.

[Goldrake]

From a business stance the Hyde and Manta books make sense in terms of material under the Aquaman banner. However the lack of an ongoing Aquaman book is another story.
Aquaman should have his own book and the planned Aquamen should be a book that is like The Spider-Men books.




To piggyback on what I talked about yesterday-when it comes to CERTAIN properties they face barriers Batman will NEVER face.

You are still dealing with BIAS. From store owners to certain fans and even employees of the company. Even if you show them how much money was made.

Example Steel and Catwoman were used to justify NOT making Black Panther. The money lost from either Green Lantern or John Carter was more than both of those movies together. Yet how many white lead movies did we see?
Kevin Hart has hit movies WITHOUT China. Adam Sandler and Ben Stiller NEED China and both have more flops than Kevin-who has ONE. Yet Sandler has the movie deal at Netflix.

We all understand. I understand the 50 Batman books. What I don't understand is when other prove their success there is an excuse for it. I don't expect 50 Aquaman books but I would settle for him to get what Shuri is getting. She has a book line (Novels). 6 new books in 2022.

A few shirts? A movie version of his figure? Valentines like Black Panther got.





Regular fans are NOT Snyderverse folks. Regular folks do NOT know the difference NOR do they care.
I have met Aquaman fans who DON'T bother with comics and were EXCITED that he got a movie. Those are the regular folks.

A lot of this toxic fandom mess is a SHOCK to folks when I tell them about it. They can't understand folks ready to commit violence over a Black Johnny Storm or Storm Trooper. Or throwing fits over Ms Marvel or anything being done with the Inhumans and so on.

That is what turns folks off from comics the toxic behavior they hear about.

would make sense if they are done properly, those books are big fails unfortunately, the lowest selling books of the entire DC line When I say the lowest, the bottom ones!! If they can't spare talent on those kind of books better not having any, as they damage the characters instead.

I understand what you mean in bias etc, but it is not just about the comics. I talked personally and online with various store owners even overseas, who told me that there was demand for Aquaman stuff following the movie and they had nothing, just old material.
The Aquaman Omnibus released with the movie was sold out in days, DC could not make a reprint until April, when enthusiasm fizzled out. Comics apart did they do something with him? a childish cartoons and nothing else.
Milking success from a movie means using every media possible.

[John Venus]

would make sense if they are done properly, those books are big fails unfortunately, the lowest selling books of the entire DC line When I say the lowest, the bottom ones!! If they can't spare talent on those kind of books better not having any, as they damage the characters instead.

Does the site you are using to cite sales account for digital sales as well?

[Captain Nostalgia]

Well it does all comes down to sales in the end...but your right, something has caused the rest of the DCU to collapse.

October 2021 is the latest I can find for complete comic sales

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-10.html

8 out of 10 of DC's top selling comics are bat titles (Minus House on the Lake & DC vs Vampires)

Roll the clock back 20 years

October 2001

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2001-10.html

2 out of 10 of Dc's top selling comics are bat titles, and that's when DC was going through the Joker's Last Laugh event.

[M L A]

^ The Didio era was mostly filled with tearing various characters and franchises down, and most of the new characters or niche books like Jaime, Kate Spencer, Jonah Hex, etc flopped. Johns' GL was the only really major success for a single franchise but they weren't able to keep it going when Johns left.

JLI era characters except for Booster and Guy were also not treated well.

Flash got imploded down to just Barry and not-Bart instead of trying to do what they did with the GL franchise under Johns, and when Wally finally came back they did Heroes in Crisis.

JSA did just fine for ~10 years and managed to support two books for most of that. Then Didio declared them a retired concept, rebooted the OG to young people, got rid of their legacies and kids, then let the book get overrun by Superman, Batman, and their supporting cast. Like... DC really just said "no" for 10 years to a franchise that was already selling??

And then there's how I sometimes wonder if DC can even feel embarrassment about the Titans... how there's 2-3 Titans runs even worth recommending and how they wasted ~15 years crapping all over the more popular members and killing off all the C listers, considering how popular the franchise is outside of comics.

And in general DC just isn't very good at striking when the iron's hot or getting a book/character out there. In fact I was kinda shocked when they announced a Yara book and a Punchline backup. Like from what I saw Roy, Alan/Jade/Obsidian, and Thomas Wayne had probably the most fanfare from Infinite Frontier... and of course the only one they gave the most attention to was the Batman related one... with Roy having to be relegated to TTA like 6 months after it ended, and Alan & his kids not even being used lmao

[Lee Stone]

This has been going on since the late '80s.
DC just stopped trying to cultivate their franchises.
They throw stuff out, it sinks or swims.
They move on.

I suspect that the whole reason comic shops leaned heavily into Marvel in the 2000s is because the shop owners were fans of the X-Men, which Marvel spent a lot of time cultivating in the '80s and '90s.

While DC focused on Batman during that time.
They only turned their attention to Superman because killing him would make headlines.

I think DC would've done better to focus on a team. Something that could be split and divided into more teams.
But they let all their bestselling team books wither away.
To focus on Batman.

[Lee Stone]

I'm kind of done with the MCU just because I don't want to have to watch every movie that comes out just to follow some larger narrative. If the next Thor sequel doesn't interest me, I shouldn't have to watch it just to know what's going on in the next movie that's not about him. I don't have any interest in watching five super-hero movies a year.

I would say that is your own mental hang up because you don't have to do that. The recent Tom Holland Spider-Man is the only Tom Holland Spider-Man movie I've seen and I enjoyed it.

Sure, the experience might be enriched for you if you follow all the films, but from my own experience, it isn't something that necessarily needs to be done. I just watch what I feel like watching or what other people around me want to see.

This is exactly what I think readers of long-standing comics titles try to convey to new readers that refuse to jump on a book unless it's a new #1.
Just because a book is on #125 doesn't mean that you have to read the last 124 issues. Meanwhile, a reader that has read the last 124 issues would get more of a 'reward' by having more context that they showed up for for the last ten years.

[Goldrake]

Does the site you are using to cite sales account for digital sales as well?

Don't know, but to DC only the printed comic sales matter otherwise why cancel books that go below 20k, Aquaman last ongoing fate was sealed when it got below the drop zone whatever digital sales, and from reaction by many big Aquafans the ones that usually buy anything, they all dropped those books.
Green Arrow/Aquaman book I read should have the biggest drop.

[Goldrake]

^ The Didio era was mostly filled with tearing various characters and franchises down, and most of the new characters or niche books like Jaime, Kate Spencer, Jonah Hex, etc flopped. Johns' GL was the only really major success for a single franchise but they weren't able to keep it going when Johns left.

Aquaman with Johns was getting there, he had plans for a 100 issue run, they removed him ironically for doing too well, outselling other characters did not go down well at DC. Like with GL they took a different path with Aquaman too, from what johns envisioned, both GL and arthur slowly sank to mediocrity

[LifeIsILL]

Aquaman with Johns was getting there, he had plans for a 100 issue run, they removed him ironically for doing too well, outselling other characters did not go down well at DC. Like with GL they took a different path with Aquaman too, from what johns envisioned, both GL and arthur slowly sank to mediocrity

If that's really the case.....then the company is rotten.

[MajorHoy]

WB /DC doesn’t have much faith in anything that isn’t Batman

That's okay . . . I don't have too much faith in WB / DC these days myself.

[Goldrake]

If that's really the case.....then the company is rotten.

Keep in mind Johns asked for Aquaman, he wasn't asked to consider taking over by DC.

People at DC told Reis and Johns it was a waste of time and energy, the character was broken, something which both of them confirmed in various interviews.
When they proved them wrong(Didio included) it did not go down well that they did and that poor Aquaman was now doing better at sales than other so called bigger names. Instead of being happy that a problematic character had been fixed, they stopped his rise. Further when Parker took over from Johns and kept the direction Johns had given, he was doing well, not as Johns but very decently. He was removed too and substituted with a run that is considered among the worst in Aquahistory.

[John Venus]

It's as if DC's run by people who hate DC characters.

[Holt]

^ The Didio era was mostly filled with tearing various characters and franchises down, and most of the new characters or niche books like Jaime, Kate Spencer, Jonah Hex, etc flopped.

That's more of a general problem with the Big 2 than a specific Didio issue. Perhaps it's a symptom of the greatly retracted market since the 80s and pre-collapse 90s, but the amount of popular and successful characters Marvel and DC have been able to introduce in the last 20 years is relatively slim. For every Miles Morales, Ms. Marvel or Kate Bishop there's a half dozen Breaches, Gravities, Simon Darks and Live Wires that nobody remembers.