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  1. #1
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    Default Kingpin takes on the bat family

    Kingpin runs the bat family gauntlet. Who will stop him or does he stomp them into batbits?
    Batman
    Nightwing
    Red Hood
    Red Robin
    Damian
    Cassie
    Batgirl
    Batwoman
    Huntress
    Bonus Rounds
    Shiva vs Bullseye
    Bane vs Hyde
    Harley vs Toxic Mary
    Poison Ivy vs Purple Man
    Batman who Laughs vs the Daredevil doppelganger from Infinity War.
    Standard weapons and equipment for all.

  2. #2
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    This classic comics Kingpin or modern?

    Though, I heard Wilson got a bit buffed recently, moving back towards his old days.
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  3. #3
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I don't know where current Kingpin slots in. If this is Classic Fisk, he's a guy who surprises Captain America (CBPH), Daredevil (solid bullet timer) and Spider Man (high-end bullet timer) with his speed, likely leaving him around CBPH-level. Notably, he kind of blitzed Cap, then casually overpowered the guy. The other two are generally portrayed as still faster than Kingpin, but we're talking about dudes who treat bullets like I'd treat a badly-folded paper airplane. He's also strong enough to outmuscle young Peter Parker (when Pete was probably around class 5 or so), to launch a massive oak desk across an office, and to tear down a building with his hands. He tanks punches and beatings from Daredevil and from Spider Man. He's a beast.

    Batman - this will be close - Bruce probably carries the gear to down Fisk, and carries more gear than Fisk does. Edge to Bats, though it is not a stomp. Laser cane or gun nets Fisk some wins, and if they ever close, Fisk will rip off one of Bruce's limbs and beat him to death with it.
    Nightwing - Should be around the same thing.
    Red Hood - eh, the needle probably is swinging more Fisk-ward.
    Red Robin - same
    Damian - same
    Cassie - Post crisis Cass destroys Fisk.
    Batgirl - Non-Cass Batgirls are mostly outclassed by Fisk.
    Batwoman - Same
    Huntress - Same
    Bonus Rounds
    Shiva vs Bullseye - This favors Lester with the start distance.
    Bane vs Hyde - Hyde should still be well beyond most any version of Bane.
    Harley vs Toxic Mary - You mean Typhoid Mary, I assume, and if you do, you have a bullet-timer telekinetic/pyrokinetic against a sub-CBPH human. Colossal stomp.
    Poison Ivy vs Purple Man - Purple Man only has to speak.
    Batman who Laughs vs the Daredevil doppelganger from Infinity War - no clue at all.
    Standard weapons and equipment for all.
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  4. #4
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    If we're talking Classic Fisk, who moves fast enough to tag Spider-Man and Daredevil and is strong enough to hurt Spidey, I don't think any of them can win.
    Power with Girl is better.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    If we're talking Classic Fisk, who moves fast enough to tag Spider-Man and Daredevil and is strong enough to hurt Spidey, I don't think any of them can win.
    I think the Cassandra Cain from before Flashpoint is even for a Classic Kingpin a bit too difficult, he was not truly on par with Spider Man after all.

  6. #6
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Assuming we're talking about Classic Fisk, because any other version is boring...

    Since the OP has given no details, it's Khazan arena, 100' starting distance, no prep, standard equipment (as noted).

    Batman
    - Bruce should take this due to equipment. If he's dumb enough to get close to Fisk, he gets wrecked.

    Nightwing
    - Same.

    Red Hood
    - If Hood's equipment is on the same level, he should do okay, for similar reasons.

    Red Robin
    - Red Robin doesn't have the same physicality as the above, and I'm somewhat leery of him being able to put Fisk down and keep away from him long enough (while dodging laser-cane stuff) to avoid getting caught and pulled apart like taffy.

    Damian
    - Hm. Honestly he's genuinely so egotistical and desperate to prove himself (CIS) that he may decide to take Fisk on in hand to hand. Disaster, dismemberment, end.

    Cass
    - If it's current Cass she'd better play keep-away and use equipment. Original Cass wins a hard hand to hand fight - Fisk isn't fast enough, she hits hard enough to damage him, she won't hesitate to go for crippling shots to the eyes and such, she can blitz, the body read, and she won't hurt herself hitting him, Daredevil style.

    Batgirl
    - Odds to Fisk, much like Red Robin.

    Batwoman
    - If she's smart and plays keepaway and uses a ton of equipment (does she have good equipment?) we're back to kind of Nightwing territory. She doesn't want to get close.

    Huntress
    - Fisk kills her. She really doesn't have a whole lot that's going to put him down before he gets to her, then it's curtains.

    Really, the Bat-family gets a boost here due to the starting range and their equipment. If it were closer, would be harder for most of them. If they didn't have equipment, everyone here but Cass would just die.

    Bonus Rounds
    Shiva vs Bullseye
    - Agreed that starting distance (100') favours Bullseye. Close-in, Shiva busts him up.

    Bane vs Hyde
    - Hyde. Yeah.

    Harley vs Toxic Mary
    - Harley gets murdered. This isn't even a match.

    Poison Ivy vs Purple Man
    - Assuming Purple Man's powers work on Ivy (they might not?) he wins. If they don't, he loses. Pretty simple.

    Mileage may vary!

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    If we're talking Classic Fisk, who moves fast enough to tag Spider-Man and Daredevil and is strong enough to hurt Spidey, I don't think any of them can win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    I think the Cassandra Cain from before Flashpoint is even for a Classic Kingpin a bit too difficult, he was not truly on par with Spider Man after all.
    Fisk doesn't have anything but PIS to explain why he tags Spider-man and Daredevil (and Matt, in their first encounter, effortlessly bounces around him, hitting him at will and avoiding all his shots, until he wrecks himself trying to hurt Fisk. THEN Fisk takes him out). He has feats to show off all of his other crazy physical abilities.

    In this case...and we're talking about Original Flavor Cass....

    Speed: Again, without PIS Fisk is somewhere in the range where he can compete with CBPH, surprising them with his speed and landing hits on them. Cass is well-into blitz-territory here.

    Strength/Hitting Power: Fisk has it all over Cass, here, though she's no slouch, hitting past CBPH herself.

    Durability: Fisk hits Cass, he's going to hurt her badly. Conversely, Cass is facing an uphill battle to hurt Kingpin. However, she does stuff like crack subway tunnel walls with headbutts, shatter swords into literal shards with fingertip strikes, casually kick though 6" marble gravestones with missed strikes when she's not going full-bore, kicks her way through the exterior walls of prison buildings, etc. She CAN hurt him, and unlike Matt, has feats for breaking apart wood, metal and stone with her hands for hours on end (literally, hours and hours) without suffering harm. Plus, she has blades. She can blind Fisk (blitz), attack his throat, whatever. And he's probably not laying a glove on her for a long long time, due to deficiencies in speed and skill, and the body-reading.

    Skill: Easy win here for Cass. Kingpin is skilled, but a B-lister at best. Cass is top-end.

    Special stuff: Setting equipment aside (and Cass's equipment is better), Cass comes into this one with combat precog.

    It's not laughably easy fight for Cass, thanks to Kingpin's strength and durability, but she should take this one.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-07-2022 at 08:20 PM.
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  7. #7
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Mr. Hyde's formula is a bit inconsistent. He also tends to take heavy drugs on top of his formula just to give things a bit more kick. So while sometimes he goes off and fights Daredevil and Captain America other times he's goes head to head with Hulk or Thor.

    I don't think Bane has ever been on the "I think I'll change Superman or Wonder Woman" strength level.

  8. #8
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Mr. Hyde's formula is a bit inconsistent. He also tends to take heavy drugs on top of his formula just to give things a bit more kick. So while sometimes he goes off and fights Daredevil and Captain America other times he's goes head to head with Hulk or Thor.

    I don't think Bane has ever been on the "I think I'll change Superman or Wonder Woman" strength level.
    Truth on that. Without a solid idea where Hyde sits, here, it's hard to say.

    Even when he was fighting Daredevil, he pretty much completely ignored Matt's best shots (until Matt dropped him on the spot with a pressure point, which was...pretty impressive).
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I don't know where current Kingpin slots in. If this is Classic Fisk, he's a guy who surprises Captain America (CBPH), Daredevil (solid bullet timer) and Spider Man (high-end bullet timer) with his speed, likely leaving him around CBPH-level. Notably, he kind of blitzed Cap, then casually overpowered the guy. The other two are generally portrayed as still faster than Kingpin, but we're talking about dudes who treat bullets like I'd treat a badly-folded paper airplane. He's also strong enough to outmuscle young Peter Parker (when Pete was probably around class 5 or so), to launch a massive oak desk across an office, and to tear down a building with his hands. He tanks punches and beatings from Daredevil and from Spider Man. He's a beast.

    Batman - this will be close - Bruce probably carries the gear to down Fisk, and carries more gear than Fisk does. Edge to Bats, though it is not a stomp. Laser cane or gun nets Fisk some wins, and if they ever close, Fisk will rip off one of Bruce's limbs and beat him to death with it.
    Nightwing - Should be around the same thing.
    Red Hood - eh, the needle probably is swinging more Fisk-ward.
    Red Robin - same
    Damian - same
    Cassie - Post crisis Cass destroys Fisk.
    Batgirl - Non-Cass Batgirls are mostly outclassed by Fisk.
    Batwoman - Same
    Huntress - Same
    Bonus Rounds
    Shiva vs Bullseye - This favors Lester with the start distance.
    Bane vs Hyde - Hyde should still be well beyond most any version of Bane.
    Harley vs Toxic Mary - You mean Typhoid Mary, I assume, and if you do, you have a bullet-timer telekinetic/pyrokinetic against a sub-CBPH human. Colossal stomp.
    Poison Ivy vs Purple Man - Purple Man only has to speak.
    Batman who Laughs vs the Daredevil doppelganger from Infinity War - no clue at all.
    Standard weapons and equipment for all.
    To quote Darth Vader; I find your lack of faith disturbing.

    Jason has taken on Bane, Deathstroke, and supernatural horrors and beaten them, while also taking on other super powered beings above Fisk's level. Plus, Jason has no qualms about cheating, even by Bat Family rules in order to gain the upper hand.

  10. #10
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    I thought post crisis Cassie would stop Kingpin even classic one cold as she was portrayed as hitting with enough force to take out metahumans and was shown to pierce Superboy's ttk defense and keep low level metahumans who could crush steel knocked out even after they regained consciousness although if kingpin manages to hug her(unlikely given her speed where she disappeared in a eyeblink and managed to hit Klarion between blinks) it's all over for her.

  11. #11
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Cass's striking through Superboy's force field is generally taken as a gag moment at best, and Spiderman-versus-Firelord at worst, and generally considered an outlier for her character.

    Aside from that, as noted, I feel that Cass has more than enough to take out Classic Fisk. She'll need to work, but that's all.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    I thought only nu52 superboy (one that died) had tk? Post crises does too? What about jon?
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  13. #13
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    I thought only nu52 superboy (one that died) had tk? Post crises does too? What about jon?
    Conner Kent Superboy who was introduced after Death of Superman back in the day had the tactile telekinesis field originally.

    And, to be real, I still really dig his original look:

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  14. #14
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Yeah, there's a famous scene where Cass slaps him upside the head through his force field, Karate Kid-style, then runs off with her finger raised ('point made!') while Conner stands stupefied.

    rg5oi6a5el381.jpg

    Generally viewed as a gag hereabouts, as it's rather above Cass's other feats (wading quite deeply into SMvsFL territory).
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Conner Kent Superboy who was introduced after Death of Superman back in the day had the tactile telekinesis field originally.

    And, to be real, I still really dig his original look:

    It is a nice costume. I remember having the action figure as a kid.

    So he lost that ability then? I'm guessing in favour of increased kryptonian abilities?
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