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  1. #271
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    No worries about budget means we can go full-on Clayface .

  2. #272
    Incredible Member Twice-named's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    No worries about budget means we can go full-on Clayface .
    Yeah, definitely.

    I was a little surprised to see Poison Mary in there.
    "It's not my Kate." - Greg Rucka

  3. #273
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice-named View Post
    Yeah, definitely.

    I was a little surprised to see Poison Mary in there.
    I guess this is after she and Alice go off on their crime spree and Ryan's thinking about how she still has to deal with that.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's neat that they're doing an Arrowverse comic with writers from the show. It might be fun .
    I thoroughly enjoyed the comics seasons for SMALLVILLE and BUFFY.

  5. #275
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypo View Post
    Is the connect out?
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Is the connect out?
    https://media.lunardistribution.com/...connect_21.pdf
    "It's not my Kate." - Greg Rucka

  7. #277
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypo View Post
    Alright then this looks pretty good, might have to pick these up.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
    In digital sales Jace is doing worse than any of them, on comixology he's always really low in the top. No idea about physical sales, zero and first issues were pretty high (like always with first issues), second issue was doing better than Jon and Yara issues, no idea how it's doing now, since Comichron doesn't have a data yet, but it's typical for sales to fall down each month, so I guess now it's even lower. But the problem is, people practically don't talk about him, especially comparing to Jon. He is objectively the most unpopular among those new wave of legacy characters, and DC themselves don't help, they didn't even put him on promotional materials, like that vaccination campaign art, for instance, even though Jon and Yara were there.
    But on the other hand, there is a difference here - Ridley himself made it clear, that Jace is not a replacement, not a heir or an apprentice, but rather a different, more local and street-level take on Batman, he even got him out of Gotham to make that point. On contrary, Jon and, I guess, Yara as well, clearly were set-up as potential heirs, so for them sales and popularity among fanbase are more crucial, I think.
    I still don't get the point of making Jace Batman. Bruce is one of those characters that is very flexible. You can do high techy Batman, a Batman run that involves sci-fi or some fantasy, or just get back to the street level. Seems redundant to have someone else do it, when Bruce is perfectly able to do it himself.

  9. #279
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    I still don't get the point of making Jace Batman. Bruce is one of those characters that is very flexible. You can do high techy Batman, a Batman run that involves sci-fi or some fantasy, or just get back to the street level. Seems redundant to have someone else do it, when Bruce is perfectly able to do it himself.
    He’s black. Bruce can’t do stories about being black. Jace differs from Bruce in other ways, he’s motivated by guilt due to being responsible for killing someone. He’s sort of a take on “What if Joe Chill became Batman?” where being Batman is a way for him to atone.

    All that aside it’s also about broadening the appeal of the Bat brand. We’re entering a world of shared mantles, soon every popular character will have a legacy version of them that also uses their code name.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    He’s black. Bruce can’t do stories about being black. Jace differs from Bruce in other ways, he’s motivated by guilt due to being responsible for killing someone. He’s sort of a take on “What if Joe Chill became Batman?” where being Batman is a way for him to atone.

    All that aside it’s also about broadening the appeal of the Bat brand. We’re entering a world of shared mantles, soon every popular character will have a legacy version of them that also uses their code name.
    But Jace isn't well-received. His take on Batman doesn't even make it to the 50 bestselling books of the month.

  11. #281
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lal View Post
    But Jace isn't well-received. His take on Batman doesn't even make it to the 50 bestselling books of the month.
    Doesn’t really matter. Miles has never been as strong a seller as Peter in any medium but he gets to stick around for diversity’s sake. Jace came out of 5G, which the higher ups at WB wanted, and was created with the aim of being adapted. Down the road there will likely be a Jace Fox movie or MAX show and that’s what will really establish him as a character. Besides his sales are pretty decent for DC right now, last I checked he outsold characters like Diana and Clark in their main books, and he sold better than Wally’s return to being Flash.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Doesn’t really matter. Miles has never been as strong a seller as Peter in any medium but he gets to stick around for diversity’s sake. Jace came out of 5G, which the higher ups at WB wanted, and was created with the aim of being adapted. Down the road there will likely be a Jace Fox movie or MAX show and that’s what will really establish him as a character. Besides his sales are pretty decent for DC right now, last I checked he outsold characters like Diana and Clark in their main books, and he sold better than Wally’s return to being Flash.
    In bat-characters standards (even secondary bat-characters, not Batman), he's not selling too well, and that's true for his 2nd issue (not including his online sales that are low compared to every DC character).
    It's likely his sales won't really improve unless DC relaunch him or push him even harder, but so far while wonder girl and Jon superman were able to generate interest and sell more or the same as WW or Clark superman, Jace doesn't even sell like Nightwing or Robin.

    It's possible DC are planning an outside adaptation for him, but it's coming in timing when they're pushing different batfamily adaptations just as hard (Nightwing in Titans leading Gotham with Babs as the commissioner, Gotham Knights game as batman's successors, Batgirl as leading the DCEU instead of Batman, Batwoman TV show with her as Gotham's vigilante, Gotham knights tv series with Batman dead and his son leading Gotham). I guess he could get the "Batman Beyond" niche as a secondary and future successor to Batman.
    Last edited by Lal; 01-23-2022 at 03:51 AM.

  13. #283
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I think the main point was that in 5G main heroes would be old and we would get next generation. So they figured that instead of going with Batman Beyond (or Damian) they might as well create new black Batman since, as Vordan said, new story options will be available + they'll look nice on social media for having black Batman.

    But since now we have new and old generation together we can kinda see that Jace is treated differently to other 5G characters. For example, Clark left Earth and Jon got some bits of Clark's lore (like Legion) for himself. Jackson and Jo are sharing books with their predecessors. It is not clear what is the future for Yara at the moment, but she was thrown straight into WW's lore and will be central character in WW's event. Meanwhile Jace is getting separated from Batman and Gotham.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I think the main point was that in 5G main heroes would be old and we would get next generation. So they figured that instead of going with Batman Beyond (or Damian) they might as well create new black Batman since, as Vordan said, new story options will be available + they'll look nice on social media for having black Batman.

    But since now we have new and old generation together we can kinda see that Jace is treated differently to other 5G characters. For example, Clark left Earth and Jon got some bits of Clark's lore (like Legion) for himself. Jackson and Jo are sharing books with their predecessors. It is not clear what is the future for Yara at the moment, but she was thrown straight into WW's lore and will be central character in WW's event. Meanwhile Jace is getting separated from Batman and Gotham.
    Well, Wonder girl is a separate book from WW, so it's not like she replaced Diana.
    Jon is the only one who actually sort of replaced Clark on earth.
    As for Jace... Adding him to the Batman lore was sort of impossible in the first place. He's the least experienced vigilante in Gotham. He couldn't have led the batfamily, or be the main crimefighter in Gotham, and most chances are that if he interacted with other batfamily members it would have ended with him being accused of being an imposter and his short career as Batman would have ended.
    Even in his book, there was an admittance that as long as he stays in Gotham he'll always be considered an imposter (not that moving to NY could really help, but at least it solves his clashes with the batfamily and him being the Batman of NY is better than claiming he's just Batman).

    And while DC could easily cancel or sideline a book that sells 30k a month (superman or WW), it's less likely that they'll do that with Batman, their only series selling over 100k. Not to mention all the other bat books with Bruce.
    Jace just can't compete with that. He's not even close.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Doesn’t really matter. Miles has never been as strong a seller as Peter in any medium but he gets to stick around for diversity’s sake. Jace came out of 5G, which the higher ups at WB wanted, and was created with the aim of being adapted. Down the road there will likely be a Jace Fox movie or MAX show and that’s what will really establish him as a character. Besides his sales are pretty decent for DC right now, last I checked he outsold characters like Diana and Clark in their main books, and he sold better than Wally’s return to being Flash.
    While Miles has never sold as well as Peter, he has stuck around because he does sell, for October 2021 Miles's book sold better than Nightwing and Robin.

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