Rumours and news about DC Titles: 2022 edition

[OOPS]

I rather he leaves out his uniformed opinions.

Because they are all GATOR talking points of ignorance.

If I am that damn concerned about DC sales-I would at least do some research instead of insulting employees.

Instead of blaming Nubia and Jace Fox for DC sales.
Instead of bashing a book that is ending or one shot or a mini.
Instead of screaming how dare this book get made.
Instead of screaming how DARE this Young Adult writer gets hired.


How about this-

Black Panther is where he is because Marvel is openly trashing the character and hiring writers who OPENLY confess to hating him. That is why he is not in the top 50.
Most of DC's books are held hostage by stupid events and employees not knowing if they have a job or not.
Some of the folks Marvel has given books to like Moon Girl-is NOT about the comic book store. It's about getting TRADE material for them when that tv show or movie happens.
It's why Spider-Punk had a mini-he's in the next Miles Morales movie.
MAYBE just MAYBE the reason certain folks like Trini Howard are still around is because they are WILLING to take the amount Marvel or DC are offering. We forget this is an industry that does not PAY well.
Lets not forget not every title is sold everywhere. There are some stores that can't sell a POC lead book-not for racist reasons but those titles just don't sell where they are located.
Other stores-they don't need say 100 copies of Nubia when they only need 10.

Shine a light but lets make sure it's one folks will want to see.

I've responded and deleted, then typed again, because I'm really fascinated by your viewpoint.

Starting from the bottom, do you see the purpose of a sales analysis to be crafting results in a way that folks want to see? Because for me, the purpose of a sales analysis is to shed light on results to determine what works, what needs improvement-as well as how to correct those issues, and what doesn't work.

Now from the top . I generally find the best way to correct ignorance is to provide information. Since you have information on sales that contradicts the "Gators", perhaps you could share the data and information.

As I mentioned above, generally speaking, a sales analysis involves research. One compiles the data, develops patterns to study the data, and interpretes the data. What method do you recommend? What data source do you prefer? Or where exactly is the analysis wrong?

DC is a business. Businesses provide services and goods to (and here is a key) paying customers. Granted comics are a tiny portion of DCs income stream. They make most of their money from IP, through content generation, merchandising and licensing. However, even subsidized by other income streams, the goal of the division is to make money. If the number 2 comic publisher, that has existed for more than 80 years has access to some of the most recognizable IP on the planet, has a large portion of its non-specialty market line sell less than mom and pop shops in business less than 20 years with shoestring budgets, there is a problem. And that problem isn't customers. The only people who are responsible are the people paid to do the JOB of 1) developing IP that is marketable and licsensible and 2) comic books that either sell enough to break even OR generate storylines that can translate to more financially viable mediums. When the employees and contractors are unable to perform the basic functions of the job, their performance is open to critique.

So, what exactly do you see as the job of the employees?

Jace and Nubia are characters, they are words on a piece of paper and ink on paper. The characters did not write themselves in ways that make them unappealing to a broad audience...and before we devolve into the racism argument, let's be honest if these two characters appealed to customers based on the race of their characters, they would be best sellers. There are a LOT of black people who read comics. Just as there are a LOT of women who read comics. And frankly I can tell you I do not read any of the female lead DC comics books-I find them stereotypical and patronizing, as well as poorly written and often just plain ugly (I do go back and read some of the Stephanie Brown Batgirl, some Huntress, and Oracle stories. I'm also reading some golden age Batgirl, and even some Lois Lane). But if I were an outlier, and these books were appealing to the majority of female comic readers, they would be on the top of the charts with Batman, just based on customers sharing gender. I would also mention that in that list of books that don't sell well, unlike your targeting of only two black characters, there are several white male and female characters that are not selling as they should. Superman (Clark Kent), Wonder Woman (Diana Prince, and Aquamen (Arthur Curray), all whom are white as of the last books, are all selling worse than some books from 3rd and 4th tier publishers.

Some YA writers are able to transition to comics; however, the structure of comics is fundamentally different than novels, short stories and script writing. Currently, DC does not appear to have a strong enough mentoring structure in place to nurture and develop writers from other mediums. They also do not seem to have editors with either the time or the skill to guide the direction of the characters or just plain edit. Again, from the sells ranking, of you look at which books were edited by which editors you start to see a pattern. This doesn't mean the editors are bad people, it mean they do not have the tools, be those personal skill or company resources, to help produce a story that enough paying readers want to spend money to purchase. (Which brings up Webtoons. I've seen people who think this model is a path forward. Why? Because, let's be honest, the person saying so likes reading for FREE. Just look at what has been happening to online news sites that were free and ad based. That model only works for so long (usualky until investor capital runs out), and doesn't create living wages for MOST content creators, any more than non selling traditional models do).

I get that people think trade is so great. Here is the problem: There are relatively solid numbers for trades. Many "hot selling" trades are selling somewhere under 20,000 copies (a generous number) for *a* month. Then drop off the chart for the next month. Except for a few "evergreen" books, that's just how it works. Now, do the math. Out of that number of sells, how do you pay a writer, an artist, the printer, the person who answers the phone in the office, the editor, the rent in the open shared office space, the phone bill, plus split the income with the retailer and pay the shipping? But also SUBSIDIZE the other 20 books that didn't sell but still have a writer, artists, editor...that need to be paid?

Which is the sells reason that would explain why they are paying low rates and don't have the staff to nuture their writers. But I would go even further, from interviews, writers and artists have talked about how the people they interface with at DC were just not aware of sells either. Somehow that cultural corporate knowledge of the importance of sells has been lost. There is a resulting disconnect with needed business administration side which leads to things like marketing failures. Which to your point means they haven't nurtured distribution channels that would increase sells in undeserved markets.

Also, I would suggest going putting aside your own bias and go back and read the analysis again. The writer neither said there are racist reasons nor gave racist reasons minority characters didn't sell. Rather the writers points out that minority characters SHOULD sell and that something has gone wrong when they don't. Look at Nubia, a character that was introduced early in DC history. She SHOULD be an iconic character (as opposed to a character the writer keeps having to have other characters say that she is the bestest ever and super superior to every existing beloved character....cause that's always appealing to readers and always makes the fans of the bashed character want to spend more money to read more), that got a *one shot* on a milestone anniversary. A poorly written, meh drawn one shot. That isn't on someone evaluating available sells data. That was a choice made by DC employees. Again, look at the solicit for Tim Drake Robin, gay or bi or not, an employee of DC made the choice to call Tim "everyone's favorite Robin". A DC employee, whose job it is to use that little paragraph to try and convince paying readers to spend money on the book, decided the *BEST* way to describe the book was insulting the favorite character of the Dick fanbase, the Jason fanbase, the Steph fanbase, the Damian fanbase, the Duke fanbase and the Carrie Kelly fanbase. Cause, you know those fanbases are totally not dedicated and protective of "their" Robin. Oh, and they don't make up a large portion of the potential buying reading audience of a *Robin* book.

Again, none of these issues is the result of some dude writing an article on the internet, or a problem created by alligators or crocodiles. These issues are homegrown with the structure of DC.

[dietrich]

I've responded and deleted, then typed again, because I'm really fascinated by your viewpoint.

Starting from the bottom, do you see the purpose of a sales analysis to be crafting results in a way that folks want to see? Because for me, the purpose of a sales analysis is to shed light on results to determine what works, what needs improvement-as well as how to correct those issues, and what doesn't work.

Now from the top . I generally find the best way to correct ignorance is to provide information. Since you have information on sales that contradicts the "Gators", perhaps you could share the data and information.

As I mentioned above, generally speaking, a sales analysis involves research. One compiles the data, develops patterns to study the data, and interpretes the data. What method do you recommend? What data source do you prefer? Or where exactly is the analysis wrong?

DC is a business. Businesses provide services and goods to (and here is a key) paying customers. Granted comics are a tiny portion of DCs income stream. They make most of their money from IP, through content generation, merchandising and licensing. However, even subsidized by other income streams, the goal of the division is to make money. If the number 2 comic publisher, that has existed for more than 80 years has access to some of the most recognizable IP on the planet, has a large portion of its non-specialty market line sell less than mom and pop shops in business less than 20 years with shoestring budgets, there is a problem. And that problem isn't customers. The only people who are responsible are the people paid to do the JOB of 1) developing IP that is marketable and licsensible and 2) comic books that either sell enough to break even OR generate storylines that can translate to more financially viable mediums. When the employees and contractors are unable to perform the basic functions of the job, their performance is open to critique.

So, what exactly do you see as the job of the employees?

Jace and Nubia are characters, they are words on a piece of paper and ink on paper. The characters did not write themselves in ways that make them unappealing to a broad audience...and before we devolve into the racism argument, let's be honest if these two characters appealed to customers based on the race of their characters, they would be best sellers. There are a LOT of black people who read comics. Just as there are a LOT of women who read comics. And frankly I can tell you I do not read any of the female lead DC comics books-I find them stereotypical and patronizing, as well as poorly written and often just plain ugly (I do go back and read some of the Stephanie Brown Batgirl, some Huntress, and Oracle stories. I'm also reading some golden age Batgirl, and even some Lois Lane). But if I were an outlier, and these books were appealing to the majority of female comic readers, they would be on the top of the charts with Batman, just based on customers sharing gender. I would also mention that in that list of books that don't sell well, unlike your targeting of only two black characters, there are several white male and female characters that are not selling as they should. Superman (Clark Kent), Wonder Woman (Diana Prince, and Aquamen (Arthur Curray), all whom are white as of the last books, are all selling worse than some books from 3rd and 4th tier publishers.

Some YA writers are able to transition to comics; however, the structure of comics is fundamentally different than novels, short stories and script writing. Currently, DC does not appear to have a strong enough mentoring structure in place to nurture and develop writers from other mediums. They also do not seem to have editors with either the time or the skill to guide the direction of the characters or just plain edit. Again, from the sells ranking, of you look at which books were edited by which editors you start to see a pattern. This doesn't mean the editors are bad people, it mean they do not have the tools, be those personal skill or company resources, to help produce a story that enough paying readers want to spend money to purchase. (Which brings up Webtoons. I've seen people who think this model is a path forward. Why? Because, let's be honest, the person saying so likes reading for FREE. Just look at what has been happening to online news sites that were free and ad based. That model only works for so long (usualky until investor capital runs out), and doesn't create living wages for MOST content creators, any more than non selling traditional models do).

I get that people think trade is so great. Here is the problem: There are relatively solid numbers for trades. Many "hot selling" trades are selling somewhere under 20,000 copies (a generous number) for *a* month. Then drop off the chart for the next month. Except for a few "evergreen" books, that's just how it works. Now, do the math. Out of that number of sells, how do you pay a writer, an artist, the printer, the person who answers the phone in the office, the editor, the rent in the open shared office space, the phone bill, plus split the income with the retailer and pay the shipping? But also SUBSIDIZE the other 20 books that didn't sell but still have a writer, artists, editor...that need to be paid?

Which is the sells reason that would explain why they are paying low rates and don't have the staff to nuture their writers. But I would go even further, from interviews, writers and artists have talked about how the people they interface with at DC were just not aware of sells either. Somehow that cultural corporate knowledge of the importance of sells has been lost. There is a resulting disconnect with needed business administration side which leads to things like marketing failures. Which to your point means they haven't nurtured distribution channels that would increase sells in undeserved markets.

Also, I would suggest going putting aside your own bias and go back and read the analysis again. The writer neither said there are racist reasons nor gave racist reasons minority characters didn't sell. Rather the writers points out that minority characters SHOULD sell and that something has gone wrong when they don't. Look at Nubia, a character that was introduced early in DC history. She SHOULD be an iconic character (as opposed to a character the writer keeps having to have other characters say that she is the bestest ever and super superior to every existing beloved character....cause that's always appealing to readers and always makes the fans of the bashed character want to spend more money to read more), that got a *one shot* on a milestone anniversary. A poorly written, meh drawn one shot. That isn't on someone evaluating available sells data. That was a choice made by DC employees. Again, look at the solicit for Tim Drake Robin, gay or bi or not, an employee of DC made the choice to call Tim "everyone's favorite Robin". A DC employee, whose job it is to use that little paragraph to try and convince paying readers to spend money on the book, decided the *BEST* way to describe the book was insulting the favorite character of the Dick fanbase, the Jason fanbase, the Steph fanbase, the Damian fanbase, the Duke fanbase and the Carrie Kelly fanbase. Cause, you know those fanbases are totally not dedicated and protective of "their" Robin. Oh, and they don't make up a large portion of the potential buying reading audience of a *Robin* book.

Again, none of these issues is the result of some dude writing an article on the internet, or a problem created by alligators or crocodiles. These issues are homegrown with the structure of DC.

That was just the dumbest way to promote that title. What were they even thinking? I'm not a marketing expert but even I recognised that that's likely to do more damage than attract readers.

[skyvolt2000]

That was just the dumbest way to promote that title. What were they even thinking? I'm not a marketing expert but even I recognised that that's likely to do more damage than attract readers.

How was that insulting those other fanbases? Are those other fanbases THAT insecure???

Are the Fantastic Four NOT called the World's Greatest Comic?? Yet I do NOT see Batman, Spider-Man or any other fanbase throwing FITS about that. Didn't Invincible at Image say that once too?

Here is something-Tim Drake in terms of solo success as ROBIN does seem to support him as "Everyone's Favorite Robin".
He got the book sales to back it up.
He made Robin his OWN.

Jason was hated as Robin and get killed off. He came back and made a bigger hit as Red Hood.
Dick was Robin and made a bigger career as NIGHTWING.
What series as Robin did Steph or Cassie have?
The Duke Fanbase-did they NOT endure a ton of toxic backlash over "Better than Robin" comment in a book? To point boycotts and defacing comics was happening.

So DC is suppose to say "we can't do this or that because a fanbase that is getting OLDER is going to get offended?"
That is what they are suppose to say to the stockholders and investors.

Guess what the reply will be "WHO CARES ABOUT THEM? NORMAL people look at it as a tag line for ONE book. Not an attack on them or who they like. Other than NOT buy the book what are they going to do? Because LEGALLY that is the ONLY thing they can do."

These issues are homegrown with the structure of DC.

That tag line is NOT a homegrown issue.

Homegrown is the following-

Tossing Wally West away and replacing him with a racist stereotype.
Removing Stephanie and Cass because the head of the company does not like them.
Employing BAD editors-who sabotage books from Green Lantern Mosaic to Static Shock to Batgirl and so on.
Employing TOXIC folks like a certain editor for 20+ years.
Firing folks who improved sales on titles.
Hiring folks who OPENLY hate characters and then prove it in the book
FAILURE to take advantage of the popularity of a character OUTSIDE of comics.
Employing there can ONLY be ONE concept with Green Lantern.
FAILURE to fully use WHO you already have versus creating way too many new folks.
FAILURE to PROPERLY develop POC-who do NOT need to take over for a white character.
FAILURE to properly edit some books.
FAILURE to properly develop characters NOT linked to Batman and some WHO are linked to him.
FAILURE to build up properties NOT linked to Batman.
FAILURE to control Bendis from derailing Superman franchise.
FAILURE to build up Teen Titans to be more than a killing ground for events.
FAILURE to build up more homegrown talent. Instead of stealing folks from the indys and Young Adult genre.
FAILURE again to get control of Green Lantern no excuse for there to be 10 Earth Lanterns. 4 fine but not 10.
FAILURE to properly plan New 52.
FAILURE to utilized Priest. Why is he doing Black Adam & Deathstroke? When he should be doing Superman or Batman?
Putting your company in a spot to where all you can publish is BATMAN. Half of his books should be OGNS killing it on Amazon.

I can list 50 more before a TAG LINE is an issue.

[SuperX]

How was that insulting those other fanbases? Are those other fanbases THAT insecure???

Are the Fantastic Four NOT called the World's Greatest Comic?? Yet I do NOT see Batman, Spider-Man or any other fanbase throwing FITS about that. Didn't Invincible at Image say that once too?

Here is something-Tim Drake in terms of solo success as ROBIN does seem to support him as "Everyone's Favorite Robin".
He got the book sales to back it up.
He made Robin his OWN.

Jason was hated as Robin and get killed off. He came back and made a bigger hit as Red Hood.
Dick was Robin and made a bigger career as NIGHTWING.
What series as Robin did Steph or Cassie have?
The Duke Fanbase-did they NOT endure a ton of toxic backlash over "Better than Robin" comment in a book? To point boycotts and defacing comics was happening.

So DC is suppose to say "we can't do this or that because a fanbase that is getting OLDER is going to get offended?"
That is what they are suppose to say to the stockholders and investors.

Guess what the reply will be "WHO CARES ABOUT THEM? NORMAL people look at it as a tag line for ONE book. Not an attack on them or who they like. Other than NOT buy the book what are they going to do? Because LEGALLY that is the ONLY thing they can do."




That tag line is NOT a homegrown issue.

Homegrown is the following-

Tossing Wally West away and replacing him with a racist stereotype.
Removing Stephanie and Cass because the head of the company does not like them.
Employing BAD editors-who sabotage books from Green Lantern Mosaic to Static Shock to Batgirl and so on.
Employing TOXIC folks like a certain editor for 20+ years.
Firing folks who improved sales on titles.
Hiring folks who OPENLY hate characters and then prove it in the book
FAILURE to take advantage of the popularity of a character OUTSIDE of comics.
Employing there can ONLY be ONE concept with Green Lantern.
FAILURE to fully use WHO you already have versus creating way too many new folks.
FAILURE to PROPERLY develop POC-who do NOT need to take over for a white character.
FAILURE to properly edit some books.
FAILURE to properly develop characters NOT linked to Batman and some WHO are linked to him.
FAILURE to build up properties NOT linked to Batman.
FAILURE to control Bendis from derailing Superman franchise.
FAILURE to build up Teen Titans to be more than a killing ground for events.
FAILURE to build up more homegrown talent. Instead of stealing folks from the indys and Young Adult genre.
FAILURE again to get control of Green Lantern no excuse for there to be 10 Earth Lanterns. 4 fine but not 10.
FAILURE to properly plan New 52.
FAILURE to utilized Priest. Why is he doing Black Adam & Deathstroke? When he should be doing Superman or Batman?
Putting your company in a spot to where all you can publish is BATMAN. Half of his books should be OGNS killing it on Amazon.

I can list 50 more before a TAG LINE is an issue.

That all sounds like homegrown issues to me

[Proto Man]

I can list 50 more before a TAG LINE is an issue.

The singular instance of the tagline may not seem like a big deal in and of itself, but it's indicative of much larger problems at DC, which are...

a) Breeding dissent among its fans. They have all these characters that share the same name or near enough, and the company often straight up tells you or at least strongly suggests which one is the best/most popular/greatest one, which can vary based upon the leanings of the ever-shifting editorial staff. This is frequently annoying to fans of the other characters.

b) Even having all these characters that share the same identity or near enough. This is a huge ongoing problem with Robin, The Flash, Green Lantern, and other characters. It causes a confusing, muddled, and oftentimes hostile situation for readers and fans. They are constantly in fear of their favorites getting thrown under the bus by creators, which causes many of them to be in a perpetually anxious and defensive state, which is actually somewhat understandable given their situation.

c) Telling readers what they should think instead of merely letting them decide for themselves, which is annoying. For example, we're told Jo from Green Lantern is the greatest detective in the multiverse, right? You might be able to get away with such a statement if you write enough stories that actually display this and if fans accept them. However, just telling us something like that in an already established universe filled with detectives seems like you're just forcing a character on people and telling us how great she is in a desperate attempt to get apathetic readers to like her. This oftentimes has the opposite effect from the intended purpose and gets people to dislike a character even more.

[Johnny]

So DC is suppose to say "we can't do this or that because a fanbase that is getting OLDER is going to get offended?"

Guess what the reply will be "WHO CARES ABOUT THEM? NORMAL people look at it as a tag line for ONE book. Not an attack on them or who they like. Other than NOT buy the book what are they going to do? Because LEGALLY that is the ONLY thing they can do."

This must be exactly the way most studio executives see the older moviegoing audience too, yet who was instrumental in making Top Gun Maverick the success it turned out to be?

Employing there can ONLY be ONE concept with Green Lantern.

Like what was done to Hal in that shitty recent GL animated movie? Strange how you don't seem to have an issue with that for some reason.

[Harpsikord]

Just going to take a moment to point out that sales don't mean what they used to anymore and they haven't since slightly before COVID, or whenever it was that DC switched distributors. We DON'T have the full figures anymore and it's that much harder to tell when things are selling well or otherwise, and probably will never be as simple as it once was again.

[dietrich]

How was that insulting those other fanbases? Are those other fanbases THAT insecure???

Are the Fantastic Four NOT called the World's Greatest Comic?? Yet I do NOT see Batman, Spider-Man or any other fanbase throwing FITS about that. Didn't Invincible at Image say that once too?

Here is something-Tim Drake in terms of solo success as ROBIN does seem to support him as "Everyone's Favorite Robin".
He got the book sales to back it up.
He made Robin his OWN.

Jason was hated as Robin and get killed off. He came back and made a bigger hit as Red Hood.
Dick was Robin and made a bigger career as NIGHTWING.
What series as Robin did Steph or Cassie have?
The Duke Fanbase-did they NOT endure a ton of toxic backlash over "Better than Robin" comment in a book? To point boycotts and defacing comics was happening.

So DC is suppose to say "we can't do this or that because a fanbase that is getting OLDER is going to get offended?"
That is what they are suppose to say to the stockholders and investors.

Guess what the reply will be "WHO CARES ABOUT THEM? NORMAL people look at it as a tag line for ONE book. Not an attack on them or who they like. Other than NOT buy the book what are they going to do? Because LEGALLY that is the ONLY thing they can do."

Why don't you ask the many fans who have criticised the tagline that question?

No Tim doesn't have the success to back that up.

Dick Grayson has the success to back it up while the likes of Jason and Damian were never given the chance to show just how successful they can be.

Damian has had 2 solo's that have been prematurely cancelled [and not due to sales] His titles Rsob and DSOB sold similar to the RR series [that's impressive for a new divisive character to be able to perform on par with a long established fan favourite]

It's disingenuous to try to use Tim's solo as a comparism when the others have never been allowed that luxury.


Saying that Dick made a bigger career as Nightwing is a bold faced lie or if you truly believe that then you know nothing about comics.

Speaking factually and considering all the facts. Dick Grayson is everyone's favourite Robin since he is the Robin that has had the most Sales success [not just in the niche market of comics mind you] but in multimedia.

Dick is the only Robin to increase sales in the Batman titles and he is still the benchmark and WB's most widely adapted Robin to date.

Tim is WB/DC's least adapted Robin. That's not something you do with the most favoured Robin. You lead with your best foot.

try to keep it civil mate. Implying that people who have problem's with that tagline aren't normal isn't cool.

Yes the Duke fanbase did endure a lot of toxic and racist backlash from the Tim Drake fanbase due to the better than Robin tag [see even you know that taglines can be problematic] and the Damian fan base had to endure a lot of toxic backlash from the Tim drake fanbase for becoming the new Robin and the Dick grayson fan base still endures a ton of toxic back lash from the Tim Drake fanbase for giving Robin to Damian. What has that got to do with anything?

[OOPS]

How was that insulting those other fanbases? Are those other fanbases THAT insecure???

Sure, yes, fans of 80% of the Robins are insecure. The point of of a *Solicit* is not to attract stores to purchase books in order to resell them to their insecure decrepit geriatric fan base.

Are the Fantastic Four NOT called the World's Greatest Comic?? Yet I do NOT see Batman, Spider-Man or any other fanbase throwing FITS about that. Didn't Invincible at Image say that once too?

I'm going to share a secret with you. Yes, the point of calling Fantastic Four the "best" was to try to entice readers of Batman and Spiderman. "See look over here, this is a great comic!". But as a not comic book reader, I thought FF was Marvel and which I understood to be able to sell a wider range of books.

Here is something-Tim Drake in terms of solo success as ROBIN does seem to support him as "Everyone's Favorite Robin".
He got the book sales to back it up.

Yes. All those "young readers" who were reading, back in the day. Good thing a big part of Tim's fan base wasn't reading 20 years ago.

He made Robin his OWN.

Meh, subjective. I see it more as character being purposefully written as Robin, in an effort to keep the character in the mantle thru adulthood, and prevent him from growing out of the characters. Which is what his creators have said. The problem, then, is the character is difficult to then transition into another role (hence all the failed launches). Luis Thinks Too Much has an excellent character study using personality traits to explore this issue via the character.

Jason was hated as Robin and get killed off.

I think that is a little revisionist.

He came back and made a bigger hit as Red Hood.
Dick was Robin and made a bigger career as NIGHTWING.

And yet, he often tops the charts as readers "favorite" Robin...which is why DC offers high selling books like World's Finest and Robin and Batman. (Spoiler: Robin is Dick). Arguably, after Bruce, Dick is DCs most consistent seller.

What series as Robin did Steph or Cassie have?

Having a series isn't the only source of a fanbase.

The Duke Fanbase-did they NOT endure a ton of toxic backlash over "Better than Robin" comment in a book? To point boycotts and defacing comics was happening.

Soooo. Practice makes perfect? I guess. Is that the point? Because it seems to me that would mean the *employees* at DC didn't learn from their mistakes.

So DC is suppose to say "we can't do this or that because a fanbase that is getting OLDER is going to get offended?"

Promise you won't tell anyone. We are all getting older. I'm getting older, my teen son is getting older, my niece is getting older-and may start school next year, my neighbors newborn is getting older. I really hope you are getting older, as the alternative is getting dead.

But, no. The point is DC employees, particularly those whose *job* is to entice store owners to buy books to offer for sell to their customers. The point is, DC just had a consistent Robin book end, and DC would like lots of people to buy the new Robin book that will replace it. So, a store owner knows, hey, I've got this customer that has bought all the World's Finest (Dick Robin) books, this other person that bought all the Robin and Batman mini books. I have this other customer that bought ever Robin book this year (Damian Robin), I have another customer that keeps talking about some kiddy show Batwheels (Duke Robin), plus I have all these OLD Tim Drake fans who've been begging for a solo for YEARS...wow, I can show all them this book and ENTICE them to reach in their pockets and give me money for the book.

I cam show them...oh crap, this says "everybody's favorite" but that isn't the favorite of that customer, or that one, oh wait or that one...and maybe, MAYBE the they will go ahead and reach into their pockets and give me $5 to "try" a book that says they aren't part of "everybody" and suggests that their interest is somehow substandard (like say, I or DC thinks they are just Old whiney babies. Or maybe they just say, "nah, I'll go get a ice cream instead" and keep that money I need and DC needs to pay the light bill in their pockets. Whiney temper tantrums!

That is what they are suppose to say to the stockholders and investors.

As a stockholder, I'd rather they say, "we have crafted a marketing strategy that will capitalize on the value of our existing IP, retaining our customer base and we arr expanding our reach. While comics have been a loss leader, we feel strongly that attention to detail and planning with purpose will enable us to more DC into the top selling position merited by our strong IP. We will stop the bleed of readership, while still providing license, IP generation and testing grounds for higher dollar return divisions."

Aka learn from mistakes and think thru consequences.

Guess what the reply will be "WHO CARES ABOUT THEM? NORMAL people look at it as a tag line for ONE book. Not an attack on them or who they like. Other than NOT buy the book what are they going to do? Because LEGALLY that is the ONLY thing they can do."

It's a good thing DC has the top selling books in the market and doesn't need those whiney babies.

What could those old abnormal whiney babies do? I guess buy sn ice cream, buy Spy X Family, get Shonen Jump, put the money in a retirement fund. Maybe pick up MoonKnight. All of which would be a very effective result of the work of DCs marketing team.

That tag line is NOT a homegrown issue.
-

.
.

I can list 50 more before a TAG LINE is an issue.

Yes, as could I. The point is, that was a teeny tiny, pretty unimportant deal in the short term that highlighted the overarching structural problem. It shows the disconnect between potentional paying customers and the lack of forethought and attention to detail needed to GROW, not shrink, sells.

[OOPS]

Just going to take a moment to point out that sales don't mean what they used to anymore and they haven't since slightly before COVID, or whenever it was that DC switched distributors. We DON'T have the full figures anymore and it's that much harder to tell when things are selling well or otherwise, and probably will never be as simple as it once was again.

Very true...and in real terms comics for DC haven't even needed to sell. As long as the IP was marketable, comics were a drop in a huge bucket. I don't think any of the numbers are solid, only best guesses based on limited samplings. More ultimately the sells numbers don't matter to readers enjoying the product, except to quality control aspect.

The biggest issue would be the difficulty writers and artists have expressed in interviews that they've experienced in getting the numbers. Gordon Murphy had an honest conversation about this in an interview where he encouraged new creators to be sure and know the business said. To be sure they protect their own financial interests.

[Gaius]

Dark Crisis: Big Bang

Written by MARK WAID
Art by DAN JURGENS and others
Cover by MIKEL JANÍN
Variant covers by ARIEL COLÓN, NATHAN SZERDY, FREDDIE E. WILLIAMS II, and CRYSTAL KUNG
1:25 foil variant cover by MIKEL JANÍN
$3.99 US | 32 pages | One-shot | Variant $4.99 US (card stock)
ON SALE 12/13/22
After the monumental events of Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths #4, Pariah has successfully resurrected the infinite Multiverse...and all of reality is still reeling from the event. Dark Crisis: Big Bang #1 is a haunting journey through these newly re-formed realities, from The Jurassic League to DC: Mech...from Dark Knights of Steel to Batman’89 and back again...in a guest-star-galore all-new epic by comics legend and DC architect Mark Waid.

[HsssH]

I'm sure that many people will be happy about Mark Waid being called an architect, but for me that is a clear sign that I'll likely be reading less and less DC comics. Oh well.

[sifighter]

Dark Crisis: Big Bang

You’re telling me I could read a comic by mark waid which has multiverse dinosaurs and giant robots… I am in baby!

That is just pure distilled fun comics and if we don’t see at least a panel where they make a kaiju fight reference I will be disappointed.

[MajorHoy]

Dark Crisis: Big Bang

So, is this yet another addition to the Dark Crisis (on Infinite Earths) checklist that was revised in July?

[sifighter]

So, is this yet another addition to the Dark Crisis (on Infinite Earths) checklist that was revised in July?

I mean depending on the date the last issue of Dark Crisis drops it could just be an aftermath one-shot