Rumours and news about DC Titles: 2022 edition

[Noodle]

You narrative is your prior claim that using the term creative bankruptcy implied personal dislike on my part. Creative bankruptcy is lacking ideas, that's literally the definition of the term.

And creativity is subjective. So, yes, "creative bankruptcy" is a personal opinion. It's not a "narrative." One person's opinion on quality will always differ from another.

Ask Wally West fans what they've had to deal with for years, or how even after Wallace became a separate character, he's still the likely version to be prioritized in outside media while using Wally's content at the same time.

I am a Wally fan, so I've dealt with how he's been treated for years now. Them creating an African-American version for the New52 is the least of the issues of what they've done to him. Imposing Wally's characteristics onto Barry because they want a "fun" Flash but still want to use Barry? Erasing him and his family completely post-Flashpoint? Making him a mass murderer? All of these things did more damage than creating a completely separate version of him that co-exists alongside him.

And you truly believe that has nothing to do with lack of ideas on their part? How did any of the characters not related to a popular brand manage to stand out all those years ago then. How did Daredevil become a fan favorite character. How did Doctor Strange or Punisher stand out. Hell how did Wolverine become popular when he wasn't originally introduced as a member of the X-Men. They didn't use the X-Men specifically to try to make Logan stand out, they put him on the team after the fans already liked him in his introduction. That was in 1975.

Every character you just listed are from 40+ years ago. The market now isn't the same as it was back then. No market is, be it comics, movies, whatever. What worked then isn't an automatic guarantee to work now.

In 2022 the audience is as hungry as ever about new things

All of the top selling books being Batman-related states otherwise.

[Johnrevenge]

I am a Wally fan, so I've dealt with how he's been treated for years now. Them creating an African-American version for the New52 is the least of the issues of what they've done to him. Imposing Wally's characteristics onto Barry because they want a "fun" Flash but still want to use Barry? Erasing him and his family completely post-Flashpoint? Making him a mass murderer? All of these things did more damage than creating a completely separate version of him that co-exists alongside him.

Agreed. Wallace was the least problem with the Wally West treatment in the latest years. He was treated as crap just to promote Barry.

[Robanker]

I prefer original creations to these sidekicks and hand me down mantles. That’s real diversity. Too bad DC doesn’t know how to make new creations stick anymore

You really going to tell me that with a Jaime Reyes avatar?

I love Jaime, he's an excellent Blue Beetle and his first solo series was quality, but he was a random character created to add more diversity who was handed down a mantle recently vacated by executing it's previous wearer... Who was themselves a legacy.

Just seems disingenuous when today Jaime would be the exact kind of situation that is causing Gators to flip a table. He's essentially yesterday's Ms. Marvel in that respect.

Sidebar, super stoked for the movie.

[HsssH]

Then those fans were buying it for the creator and not the character, which puts us back at square one for "why don't new characters sell."

I like consistent art and not 3 different artists in first 5 issues.

[Noodle]

I like consistent art and not 3 different artists in first 5 issues.

I misinterpreted your complaint. I apologize about that. You had mentioned specific artists, and the New Age of Heroes initiative was very much pushed and marketed on it's creators. I shouldn't have made that assumption.

There's a difference between "I'm not reading it anymore because _____ is no longer drawing it" and "I want the art to be consistent." The later I agree with you on.

[Robanker]

I misinterpreted your complaint. I apologize about that. You had mentioned specific artists, and the New Age of Heroes initiative was very much pushed and marketed on it's creators. I shouldn't have made that assumption.

There's a difference between "I'm not reading it anymore because _____ is no longer drawing it" and "I want the art to be consistent." The later I agree with you on.

Not just that, they made a point of billing the artist first, emphasizing their importance in the line. It was very much "DC does Marvel heroes using the Marvel Method ^TM" and they lost the artists immediately.


How to comprehensively **** the bed in three issues or less!

[SJNeal]

How to comprehensively **** the bed in three issues or less!

I insist DC officially adopt this as their new tagline!

[Johnny]

And creativity is subjective. So, yes, "creative bankruptcy" is a personal opinion. It's not a "narrative." One person's opinion on quality will always differ from another.

The pattern we've seen for years now to apply the same approach while introducing a new character isn't a personal opinion, it's a fact. The instant gratification aspect achieved with less effort out of concern that "it wouldn't sell" as you previously acknowledged yourself, is not an opinion, it's a fact. Creative bankruptcy is hardly an opinion on my part when you see the same pattern repeat itself over and over again non-stop for the past decade or so.

I am a Wally fan, so I've dealt with how he's been treated for years now. Them creating an African-American version for the New52 is the least of the issues of what they've done to him. Imposing Wally's characteristics onto Barry because they want a "fun" Flash but still want to use Barry? Erasing him and his family completely post-Flashpoint? Making him a mass murderer? All of these things did more damage than creating a completely separate version of him that co-exists alongside him.

Except that's the version that DC's corporate overlords would prioritize over him as they have before. All the things you mentioned damaged Wally but what does it say when even after he's back as the main Flash again he'd keep getting the short end of the stick because the other version offers one single thing he doesn't that in the eyes of the top brass supposedly makes him more marketable. Even if they ever stop pushing Barry, they won't make classic Wally the main Flash again in all DC media.

Every character you just listed are from 40+ years ago. The market now isn't the same as it was back then. No market is, be it comics, movies, whatever. What worked then isn't an automatic guarantee to work now.

Not every character they tried to push from that era was successful or had staying power, while those that did was because creators took their time to develop them and their lore, which is why they're still around all those years later. Even the characters that did stick around and remained popular still had the occasional unpopular low selling run but they were not put on the shelf because of it. They weren't permanently retired, tossed aside and replaced because fans didn't like the then-current direction of the books. The market changing is no excuse for putting in little effort.

All of the top selling books being Batman-related states otherwise.

I mean there was a time when GL was doing Batman numbers and the reason for that was because people clearly liked the book and that didn't happen during the 70s or 80s. Immortal Hulk was outselling pretty much every DC book and that was only a few years ago. When you put in the effort it clearly can work. Funny how that works.

[Sodam Yat]

You really going to tell me that with a Jaime Reyes avatar?

I love Jaime, he's an excellent Blue Beetle and his first solo series was quality, but he was a random character created to add more diversity who was handed down a mantle recently vacated by executing it's previous wearer... Who was themselves a legacy.

Just seems disingenuous when today Jaime would be the exact kind of situation that is causing Gators to flip a table. He's essentially yesterday's Ms. Marvel in that respect.

Sidebar, super stoked for the movie.

One thing I would give DC credit for is that they gave Jaime Reyes chances after chances and never gave up on the character. I wished they had that kind of effort with other minority characters.

[Digifiend]

Silencer stayed the longest wasn't she?

The Terrifics was the longest runner of that line.

[Robanker]

I insist DC officially adopt this as their new tagline!

Now, now. Marvel has as much right to it as DC.

One thing I would give DC credit for is that they gave Jaime Reyes chances after chances and never gave up on the character. I wished they had that kind of effort with other minority characters.

It helps that his first run was a critical darling and was adored by everyone in the office. Didio kept that book going well last cancelation numbers just because he thought it was a good book that DC needed at the time.

I don't think Jaime would have gotten the push he did if that first run also floundered... But he genuinely was a great idea that was executed well and I'm happy for it. Jaime is a great addition to DC.

[Twice-named]

I mean there was a time when GL was doing Batman numbers and the reason for that was because people clearly liked the book and that didn't happen during the 70s or 80s. Immortal Hulk was outselling pretty much every DC book and that was only a few years ago. When you put in the effort it clearly can work. Funny how that works.

I wonder if it's creative bankruptcy, inadequate incentive for writers to put out the best stories they can, or self-defeating IP management. Or some combination.

[Vordan]

The Ram V/Albuquerque book is a Batbook

[Morgoth]

Maybe he's the next 'Tec writer?
Anyway, I know lots of people will be upset, but Ram V on Batman is actually pretty interesting option.

[Zagre]

The Ram V/Albuquerque book is a Batbook

I'm pretty indifferent to Batman but really, the saturation is real.