Rumours and news about DC Titles: 2022 edition

[sifighter]

Honestly I like the “everything happened” idea because it doesn’t alienate readers. I started reading comics late 90’s early 2000’s. I didn’t read stories like Emerald Twilight, I only read Rebirth with the return of Hal and the Johns era. But people had love for what came before with Hal, and with characters like Guy, John, and Kyle. There are other examples but the idea that we don’t just inherently disregard something that somebody liked and read is a good thing to me. People liked those stories when those changes, retcons, and reboots occurred and I don’t see how it hurts to at least acknowledge those stories as valid when drawing a hard line in the sand only alienates readers who read those stories.

At least that’s how I see it.

[MajorHoy]

Honestly I like the “everything happened” idea because it doesn’t alienate readers. I started reading comics late 90’s early 2000’s. I didn’t read stories like Emerald Twilight, I only read Rebirth with the return of Hal and the Johns era. But people had love for what came before with Hal, and with characters like Guy, John, and Kyle. There are other examples but the idea that we don’t just inherently disregard something that somebody liked and read is a good thing to me. People liked those stories when those changes, retcons, and reboots occurred and I don’t see how it hurts to at least acknowledge those stories as valid when drawing a hard line in the sand only alienates readers who read those stories.

At least that’s how I see it.

But when five different things have happened over the past 20-50 years, it's a bit hard to see how they ALL happened without causing stories to trip all over themselves. (Perfect example: what happened to Carter Hall's Hawkman from Silver Age to post-CoIE to Hawkworld to . . . )

[sifighter]

But when five different things have happened over the past 20-50 years, it's a bit hard to see how they ALL happened without causing stories to trip all over themselves. (Perfect example: what happened to Carter Hall's Hawkman from Silver Age to post-CoIE to Hawkworld to . . . )

Yeah but then you get something like Robert Vendetti’s Hawkman run where he goes and ties it all together via reincarnation over time and space.

I just think it’s better to acknowledge and create something new/rewarding out of it is reading of destroying and retelling.

[HsssH]

Yeah but then you get something like Robert Vendetti’s Hawkman run where he goes and ties it all together via reincarnation over time and space.

Not everyone is interested in the merger of Gold and Silver age (and their later variations) Hawkmans. Venditti's run does not solve anything, it just highlights how absurd it has gotten.

[Avi]

It just seems like an excuse for sloppy writing and inconsistency at this point.

Agreed. Most writers have handled it lazily. There are only a few writers who've brought classic stories back to enrich their current ones.

[sifighter]

Not everyone is interested in the merger of Gold and Silver age (and their later variations) Hawkmans. Venditti's run does not solve anything, it just highlights how absurd it has gotten.

Like I said, personal opinion.

[Gaius]

Am I in the minority on hating this “everything happened” continuity? I would really prefer DC have a defenetive timeline instead of all of these things happened (maybe), just go with it approach.

It's this in comic book form.

[Restingvoice]

Not everyone is interested in the merger of Gold and Silver age (and their later variations) Hawkmans. Venditti's run does not solve anything, it just highlights how absurd it has gotten.

But when five different things have happened over the past 20-50 years, it's a bit hard to see how they ALL happened without causing stories to trip all over themselves. (Perfect example: what happened to Carter Hall's Hawkman from Silver Age to post-CoIE to Hawkworld to . . . )

I don't know the history of Hawkman but we now have not just infinite alternate earths but also infinite alternate timelines. Venditti's version would be just one version, while the other versions that don't fit with that plan can exist somewhere in each of their own alternate timelines.

[MajorHoy]

I don't know the history of Hawkman but we now have not just infinite alternate earths but also infinite alternate timelines. Venditti's version would be just one version, while the other versions that don't fit with that plan can exist somewhere in each of their own alternate timelines.

The thing is, before CoIE, we had multiple versions of characters on multiple Earths, and it seemed easy enough to understand back then.

Now, you start throwing in all these multiple reality scenarios like "Hyper-Time" or whatever, and it's just a confusing mess, especially when different writers are referring to different realities and sometimes don't even agree on what makes which which.

[Ascended]

Honestly I like the “everything happened” idea because it doesn’t alienate readers. I started reading comics late 90’s early 2000’s. I didn’t read stories like Emerald Twilight, I only read Rebirth with the return of Hal and the Johns era. But people had love for what came before with Hal, and with characters like Guy, John, and Kyle. There are other examples but the idea that we don’t just inherently disregard something that somebody liked and read is a good thing to me. People liked those stories when those changes, retcons, and reboots occurred and I don’t see how it hurts to at least acknowledge those stories as valid when drawing a hard line in the sand only alienates readers who read those stories.

At least that’s how I see it.

I like the "everything happened" approach, but DC has too many inconsistencies and too many continuities to make it work without some kind of underlying, consistent timeline.

Like, did the Kents die when Clark was a teenager, or did they live to his adulthood? Did one die and one live? If so, when? That answer impacts other stuff, other stories, and the status of the Kents may change those tales in major ways.

I'd like to see DC establish a basic bullet-point timeline. Just the major, defining moments, with everything else left vague enough that most stories could be fit in somewhere with a minimum amount of adjustment. That way, a writer can use anything from the past without *too* much hassle.

Not quite a "everything happened" approach, but I think it's the best DC can reasonably achieve, given how often they've retconned and rebooted their universe.

[astro@work]

I like the "everything happened" approach, but DC has too many inconsistencies and too many continuities to make it work without some kind of underlying, consistent timeline.

Like, did the Kents die when Clark was a teenager, or did they live to his adulthood? Did one die and one live? If so, when? That answer impacts other stuff, other stories, and the status of the Kents may change those tales in major ways.

I'd like to see DC establish a basic bullet-point timeline. Just the major, defining moments, with everything else left vague enough that most stories could be fit in somewhere with a minimum amount of adjustment. That way, a writer can use anything from the past without *too* much hassle.

Not quite a "everything happened" approach, but I think it's the best DC can reasonably achieve, given how often they've retconned and rebooted their universe.

100% this. I'm fine with the "everything happened" approach to a degree, if this means some stories happened on alternate Earths. The DCU Earths are infinite again, so all versions of Earth 2, Earth X are out there, and presumably multiple iterations of Earth1 (now Earth 0).

Problem is, the history of Prime Earth still isn't consistent enough to not make me bang my head on the wall. If we assume the current Earth history begins as a clean slate with nu52 and got tweaked at Rebirth (based on the in-continuity changes made + the echo effect of the two Supermen combining)...it STILL doesn't make sense.
Examples:
The JLA founders were the big 7 including J'onn, except the JLA founders were the big 7 including Cyborg.
Also, Cyborg was a founder of the new Teen Titans, except he was never a member of the new Teen Titans.
Diana has been around since the late 30's (great!), and Steve Trevor was, except he wasn't. And Steve is currently 110.
And don't come at me with Joe Chill! :P

Honestly I'd just like a broad strokes history of the DCU so that writers had a template, instead of the current mind-numbing chaos.
The only two characters in the DCU that seem to have a clean (if not obtuse) history are Damien Wayne and Jon Kent.

[Restingvoice]

100% this. I'm fine with the "everything happened" approach to a degree, if this means some stories happened on alternate Earths. The DCU Earths are infinite again, so all versions of Earth 2, Earth X are out there, and presumably multiple iterations of Earth1 (now Earth 0).

Problem is, the history of Prime Earth still isn't consistent enough to not make me bang my head on the wall. If we assume the current Earth history begins as a clean slate with nu52 and got tweaked at Rebirth (based on the in-continuity changes made + the echo effect of the two Supermen combining)...it STILL doesn't make sense.
Examples:
The JLA founders were the big 7 including J'onn, except the JLA founders were the big 7 including Cyborg.
Also, Cyborg was a founder of the new Teen Titans, except he was never a member of the new Teen Titans.
Diana has been around since the late 30's (great!), and Steve Trevor was, except he wasn't. And Steve is currently 110.
And don't come at me with Joe Chill! :P

Honestly I'd just like a broad strokes history of the DCU so that writers had a template, instead of the current mind-numbing chaos.
The only two characters in the DCU that seem to have a clean (if not obtuse) history are Damien Wayne and Jon Kent.

Cyborg's no longer the founder. He joined the League when it was reformed about 5 years or so before Snyder's League-Death Metal, and he was a member of NTT.

Have they talked about Steve and Joe Chill post Infinite Frontier?

The timeline still doesn't add up though, but the one I know is Tim Drake and his generation not fitting with Jon Kent.

The thing is, before CoIE, we had multiple versions of characters on multiple Earths, and it seemed easy enough to understand back then.

Now, you start throwing in all these multiple reality scenarios like "Hyper-Time" or whatever, and it's just a confusing mess, especially when different writers are referring to different realities and sometimes don't even agree on what makes which which.

True, but I just don't think about it unless they mention it or make it matter.

[Frontier]

Cyborg's no longer the founder. He joined the League when it was reformed about 5 years or so before Snyder's League-Death Metal, and he was a member of NTT.

Have they talked about Steve and Joe Chill post Infinite Frontier?

The timeline still doesn't add up though, but the one I know is Tim Drake and his generation not fitting with Jon Kent.

Joe Chill was in Three Jokers but that's kind of a loose continuity book.

[Restingvoice]

Joe Chill was in Three Jokers but that's kind of a loose continuity book.

Yes, and that's also before Infinite Frontier, and he died there, and after Death Metal there are people who are resurrected, so unless there's a follow up his status is unclear.

Side note, I think DC Universe Rebirth, The Button, Doomsday Clock, and Three Jokers Batman are all the same person since they're all covering Johns story thread since the beginning of Rebirth. Right now he's in Flashpoint Beyond, and no longer the main timeline Batman.

The branching point should be the Flash-Batman crossover during Heroes in Crisis. In real life, Heroes in Crisis is the point where Didio's taking DC where he wants them to go while Johns were still finishing Doomsday Clock, or so it seems.

[witchboy]

Honestly I like the “everything happened” idea because it doesn’t alienate readers. I started reading comics late 90’s early 2000’s. I didn’t read stories like Emerald Twilight, I only read Rebirth with the return of Hal and the Johns era. But people had love for what came before with Hal, and with characters like Guy, John, and Kyle. There are other examples but the idea that we don’t just inherently disregard something that somebody liked and read is a good thing to me. People liked those stories when those changes, retcons, and reboots occurred and I don’t see how it hurts to at least acknowledge those stories as valid when drawing a hard line in the sand only alienates readers who read those stories.

At least that’s how I see it.

Everything happened works better for some characters than others.
How can everything have happened for Steve Trevor, who was Diana's love interest, except for the reality where he wasn't, was much older and married Etta Candy. Who is both a straight white woman and a black lesbian. Or Donna Troy who was an orphan raised on Paradise Island, then a magic copy of Diana, then whatever she is now...another statue brought to life I think.
Or Lex Luthor who has both been in and out of prison since he was a teenager and was also a respected corporate businessman with a clean record.