Rebooting Ultimate Marvel: Should It Be Done?

[MarvelMaster616]

I was originally going to post this in the Ultimate Appreciation Thread. But that thread was closed and nobody has posted in it in six months. So I'll start this thread with the understanding that the Mods may see fit to move or relabel it. And if there's another Ultimate thread I could post in, please let me know.

That all being said, I though I'd start this thread in hopes of starting a larger discussion. A while back, I saw a few articles and online discussions about the legacy of Ultimate Marvel. As someone who followed that series since its launch, I haven't forgotten how impactful it was. In the early 2000s, it really was one of the biggest brands in all of comics. Very few alternate universes have achieved that level of success. And while it eventually faltered and was cancelled/warped into the mainline books, it certainly left its mark. The popularity of characters like Miles Morales is proof of that.

Now, I was among the harshest critics of Ultimate towards the end. When it finally did end, I thought it was overdue. The line just lost too much of what made it great. I honestly believe it should've been cancelled a lot sooner. And I get the sense Marvel didn't know what to do with it after a while and it showed in the poor writing and utter lack of vision, outside of Ultimate Spider-Man. And until recently, I was content to let Ultimate just fade into history.

Then, I had a change of heart. I now believe that the time is right to reboot Ultimate Marvel and give it another shot. And by reboot, I don't mean revisiting Ultimate or rebuilding it via the Maker. I know it has been teased in other comics that Ultimate is still active. But honestly, I don't think that universe is salvageable. It just has too much baggage and too much time has passed for anyone to care or relate to it anymore. That's why I favor a clean reboot. Start from scratch. Call it All-New, All-Different Ultimate Marvel. Build a new Marvel universe for a new era.

Even though the 616 comics have been great lately, I think it can only help to have a successful alternative running alongside it. Who knows? It could spur the creation of another Miles Morales.

The more I think about the possibilities, the more convinced I am that Marvel should attempt this. It inspired me so much that I decided to make a video series exploring the possibilities on my YouTube channel, Jack's World. Below is a video I recently posted discussing this topic. It'll be the first of several in exploring what a new Ultimate Marvel could entail.



As I make these videos, I welcome additional discussions on this topic. Do you think Ultimate Marvel should be rebooted? Why or why not? I'm hoping this discussion will help inform the follow-up videos I'll be working on for the next few weeks.

[Jabare]

I don't see it happening, but I don't see a problem with making another universe.

Comics are R&D for movies, cartoons, shows, video games, and other more lucrative ventures. So when it's all said and done, if done right, it would be helpful to Marvel.

The 616 has already salvaged Miles Morales, Nick Fury, and other concepts.

Marvel still needs to figure out the X-men, Fantastic Four, Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, etc., for live-action, and a new universe could be helpful in flushing out those ideas.

We already know the Ultimate line had a significant influence on the MCU.

[nnelg]

Yes it should be happen.

[Mr. White]

This is a tough one.

As a fan of the early Ultimate Universe, I’d like to read similar stories and see a different/ modern take on MARVEL characters, with even more daring changes made including things like race swapping and connections between characters (think Fury and the links between Pym, Banner, Parker and Reed). I mean the fact Wolverine and Cable were the same person… those are the things I liked.

Unfortunately due to decisions at MARVEL which led to the Ultimate universe being made more and more similar to 616 and the ton of just bad stories (amongst others Ultimates 3) ending with the crapfest that was Ultimatum… I don’t think “rebooting” it may work. There were some good stories there amongst the wreckage and rebooting it erases those.

**I’d initially thought of how one could possibly fix it and I came up with MARVEL publishing a one-shot whereby Ultimate Beyonder resets the timeline or whatnot to a certain point in the Ultimate timeline and basically has a schedule - like those encyclopedias it used to publish - that states which stories remain and which were wiped from the timeline. Or just do what Millar did where he wrote out the Ultimate Iron Man comic as a tv show . I mean it’s not neat, but I’d take this over what we were left with. Of course this will be difficult cos what I think should remain may not be the same thing the next person thinks.

Anyway as to the issue of an actual reboot, I’ll say no but instead, try it again but with another universe (just create a new one…) and more importantly be committed. Identify your target market, and stay the course. Maybe even stick to certain writers - Millar, Ennis, Brubaker, Ellis, Hickman etc.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm down for a reboot of the Ultimate Universe. I'd probably go the Justice League Gods and Monsters route. Bruce Timm endeavored to keep the mantle and scrap everything else. That's a good angle to pursue and avoids turning Ultimates into the MCU 2.0.

[jwatson]

No. If they have the resources why not shore up characters in the main line. Surely there should be enough that exist to tell any kind of story. It also sort of flys in the face of when it's said that there are too many books for so and so to have a book but if that is the case how is there a whole line based on alternate characters. I mean alternate universes are nice to visit but imo it shows a lack of confidence in your main universe to have a secondary one.

[Mutant God]

Then, I had a change of heart. I now believe that the time is right to reboot Ultimate Marvel and give it another shot. And by reboot, I don't mean revisiting Ultimate or rebuilding it via the Maker. I know it has been teased in other comics that Ultimate is still active. But honestly, I don't think that universe is salvageable. It just has too much baggage and too much time has passed for anyone to care or relate to it anymore. That's why I favor a clean reboot. Start from scratch. Call it All-New, All-Different Ultimate Marvel. Build a new Marvel universe for a new era.

How about Ultra Marvel, or Super Marvel, or Dark Marvel

[Mr. White]

No. If they have the resources why not shore up characters in the main line. Surely there should be enough that exist to tell any kind of story. It also sort of flys in the face of when it's said that there are too many books for so and so to have a book but if that is the case how is there a whole line based on alternate characters. I mean alternate universes are nice to visit but imo it shows a lack of confidence in your main universe to have a secondary one.

^Because provided it’s the main line, there will always be (1) the fear of “getting it wrong” on the part of Marvel; (2) readers that say “that’s not my [insert character] and will have issues with directions taken; (3) tied to point 1, there are slaves to continuity [mainly amongst readers] that will bring some 1965 issue of something and say “that’s not right” etcetera. I’m sure I can come up with more reasons but I’m sure you get the drift.

Point is, there are just too many restrictions, both literal and “reader made”.

^^And the underlying one, which governs it all - “don’t f*** with the money”…

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'd use the Malibu universe characters and give them a revamp/update.

[davetvs]

I want to say yes, because early Ultimate Marvel was so great, but its lows were as low as its highs were high so I also want to say no. If anything, I'd rather they try again with another AU.

[MarvelMaster616]

I want to say yes, because early Ultimate Marvel was so great, but its lows were as low as its highs were high so I also want to say no. If anything, I'd rather they try again with another AU.

I don't disagree with respect to Ultimate Marvel's lows. It did get pretty bad, to be generous. But I think that's more a result of Ultimate lacking a larger plan or vision. When it started out with Millar and Bendis, there was definitely a larger plan and a sense of vision. It's very similar to the MCU in that it has people like Kevin Feige overseeing and refining that vision. But towards the end of Millar's run on Ultimates, that vision was pretty much abandoned. And the whole series, absent Spider-Man, lost all sense of coherence and consistency.

That's a big part of why it collapsed as hard as it did. I also think the efforts to revitalize it were very misguided in that it tried to be too different from the mainline comics. And it kept trying to replace certain characters with fill-ins that never caught on, but failed ta every turn. Miles Morales was the only exception.

I think a rebooted Ultimate Universe can learn from those mistakes. I also think the time is right for something new and fresh. The MCU has shown that there is a market for an alternative Marvel universe. And I think Ultimate can fill that niche like it once did in the early 2000s.

[Multiverse]

Ultimate Marvel is what got me into comics; was a big fan of "Ultimate Spider-Man" and "The Ultimates". I do agree that "Ultimatum" really drove a nail into everything; yet despite that, there were some interesting concepts that spawned out of it (Richards turning evil, Mutants on the run etc).

If they do relaunch, I want to see something of a soft reboot, undoing certain elements that didn't work in the original runs, while keeping stuff that felt familiar. For example, it's apparent from "Spider-Men II" that certain characters have been restored (coughwhat'sHankdoingtherecough)

[Ultimate Captain America]

It would be great, but it won't happen. Several reasons conspire against it.
* Political correctness gone mad. Nowadays, people get offended by even the most trivial jokes (just remember Age of Ultron's "I'll reinstate prima nocta"). Everything is racist, everything is sexist, everything is bullying, everything is offensive to someone. Try to make the Ultimate comics nowadays, it would be a scandal every week. For example, do you remember the end of Spider-man's first fight with Kingpin?
* Back then, Marvel was its own owner, and they could do what they wanted with their characters, such as reinventing them in bold new ways. Not today. Marvel belongs to Disney, and characters are properties that must be protected from any scandal. Tony Stark, for example, can not be a womanizer because feminists may take issue with that (even if Lucifer shows that such a character may still work nowadays).
* The MCU success. It has grown to a point that people accepts the corniest comic book fantasy with little issue. The problem with that is that now there's less room to attempts to mix superheroes with hard science fiction or with topics like military and politics in a way that could be somewhat realistic, as in the Ultimate universe.

[Iron Maiden]

This is a tough one.

As a fan of the early Ultimate Universe, I’d like to read similar stories and see a different/ modern take on MARVEL characters, with even more daring changes made including things like race swapping and connections between characters (think Fury and the links between Pym, Banner, Parker and Reed). I mean the fact Wolverine and Cable were the same person… those are the things I liked.

Unfortunately due to decisions at MARVEL which led to the Ultimate universe being made more and more similar to 616 and the ton of just bad stories (amongst others Ultimates 3) ending with the crapfest that was Ultimatum… I don’t think “rebooting” it may work. There were some good stories there amongst the wreckage and rebooting it erases those.

**I’d initially thought of how one could possibly fix it and I came up with MARVEL publishing a one-shot whereby Ultimate Beyonder resets the timeline or whatnot to a certain point in the Ultimate timeline and basically has a schedule - like those encyclopedias it used to publish - that states which stories remain and which were wiped from the timeline. Or just do what Millar did where he wrote out the Ultimate Iron Man comic as a tv show . I mean it’s not neat, but I’d take this over what we were left with. Of course this will be difficult cos what I think should remain may not be the same thing the next person thinks.

Anyway as to the issue of an actual reboot, I’ll say no but instead, try it again but with another universe (just create a new one…) and more importantly be committed. Identify your target market, and stay the course. Maybe even stick to certain writers - , Brubaker, Ellis, Hickman etc.

I have no interest in seeing anything Millar or Ennis would even care to develop. Their take on anything Marvel is usually very negative, particularly Ennis who loathes the superhero genre.

I read most of the Ultimate Universe stuff as it got started and it seemed that the writers had trouble keeping their new creation consistent. Some of their new visions were failure, Doom being a major case in point. That was particularly disappointing coming from Warren Ellis.
The longer it went on the less Millar, Bendis etc were interested in it. They left their titles except Bendis who kept Ultimate Spider-Man going. IIRC the Ultimate Fantastic Four limped along for the longest, about 50 issues. In the last arc Sue was trying to force Reed into making her pregnant.

[Ascended]

I'd use the Malibu universe characters and give them a revamp/update.

I don't think I'd want to see a full blown reboot and update of the Malibu line, but I definitely think there are characters there worth using, and if Marvel won't introduce them in the 616 then a new Ultimate line would be a good place.

I don't see it happening, but I don't see a problem with making another universe.

We already know the Ultimate line had a significant influence on the MCU.

Agreed. Ultimate Marvel gave us Sam Jackson Fury and Miles Morales and a bunch of other things that have slowly shifted to the 616 or the MCU. And stuff that goes into the MCU usually finds its way into the 616 eventually too.

I think there'd be potential in a new Ultimate line...but not any kind of reboot, revamp, or continuation of the original. Just do what made the line successful in the first place; a modern vision of the characters without any continuity or expectations holding the creators back.