Rebooting Ultimate Marvel: Should It Be Done?

[MarvelMaster616]

I was originally going to post this in the Ultimate Appreciation Thread. But that thread was closed and nobody has posted in it in six months. So I'll start this thread with the understanding that the Mods may see fit to move or relabel it. And if there's another Ultimate thread I could post in, please let me know.

That all being said, I though I'd start this thread in hopes of starting a larger discussion. A while back, I saw a few articles and online discussions about the legacy of Ultimate Marvel. As someone who followed that series since its launch, I haven't forgotten how impactful it was. In the early 2000s, it really was one of the biggest brands in all of comics. Very few alternate universes have achieved that level of success. And while it eventually faltered and was cancelled/warped into the mainline books, it certainly left its mark. The popularity of characters like Miles Morales is proof of that.

Now, I was among the harshest critics of Ultimate towards the end. When it finally did end, I thought it was overdue. The line just lost too much of what made it great. I honestly believe it should've been cancelled a lot sooner. And I get the sense Marvel didn't know what to do with it after a while and it showed in the poor writing and utter lack of vision, outside of Ultimate Spider-Man. And until recently, I was content to let Ultimate just fade into history.

Then, I had a change of heart. I now believe that the time is right to reboot Ultimate Marvel and give it another shot. And by reboot, I don't mean revisiting Ultimate or rebuilding it via the Maker. I know it has been teased in other comics that Ultimate is still active. But honestly, I don't think that universe is salvageable. It just has too much baggage and too much time has passed for anyone to care or relate to it anymore. That's why I favor a clean reboot. Start from scratch. Call it All-New, All-Different Ultimate Marvel. Build a new Marvel universe for a new era.

Even though the 616 comics have been great lately, I think it can only help to have a successful alternative running alongside it. Who knows? It could spur the creation of another Miles Morales.

The more I think about the possibilities, the more convinced I am that Marvel should attempt this. It inspired me so much that I decided to make a video series exploring the possibilities on my YouTube channel, Jack's World. Below is a video I recently posted discussing this topic. It'll be the first of several in exploring what a new Ultimate Marvel could entail.



As I make these videos, I welcome additional discussions on this topic. Do you think Ultimate Marvel should be rebooted? Why or why not? I'm hoping this discussion will help inform the follow-up videos I'll be working on for the next few weeks.

[Jabare]

I don't see it happening, but I don't see a problem with making another universe.

Comics are R&D for movies, cartoons, shows, video games, and other more lucrative ventures. So when it's all said and done, if done right, it would be helpful to Marvel.

The 616 has already salvaged Miles Morales, Nick Fury, and other concepts.

Marvel still needs to figure out the X-men, Fantastic Four, Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, etc., for live-action, and a new universe could be helpful in flushing out those ideas.

We already know the Ultimate line had a significant influence on the MCU.

[nnelg]

Yes it should be happen.

[Mr. White]

This is a tough one.

As a fan of the early Ultimate Universe, I’d like to read similar stories and see a different/ modern take on MARVEL characters, with even more daring changes made including things like race swapping and connections between characters (think Fury and the links between Pym, Banner, Parker and Reed). I mean the fact Wolverine and Cable were the same person… those are the things I liked.

Unfortunately due to decisions at MARVEL which led to the Ultimate universe being made more and more similar to 616 and the ton of just bad stories (amongst others Ultimates 3) ending with the crapfest that was Ultimatum… I don’t think “rebooting” it may work. There were some good stories there amongst the wreckage and rebooting it erases those.

**I’d initially thought of how one could possibly fix it and I came up with MARVEL publishing a one-shot whereby Ultimate Beyonder resets the timeline or whatnot to a certain point in the Ultimate timeline and basically has a schedule - like those encyclopedias it used to publish - that states which stories remain and which were wiped from the timeline. Or just do what Millar did where he wrote out the Ultimate Iron Man comic as a tv show . I mean it’s not neat, but I’d take this over what we were left with. Of course this will be difficult cos what I think should remain may not be the same thing the next person thinks.

Anyway as to the issue of an actual reboot, I’ll say no but instead, try it again but with another universe (just create a new one…) and more importantly be committed. Identify your target market, and stay the course. Maybe even stick to certain writers - Millar, Ennis, Brubaker, Ellis, Hickman etc.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm down for a reboot of the Ultimate Universe. I'd probably go the Justice League Gods and Monsters route. Bruce Timm endeavored to keep the mantle and scrap everything else. That's a good angle to pursue and avoids turning Ultimates into the MCU 2.0.

[jwatson]

No. If they have the resources why not shore up characters in the main line. Surely there should be enough that exist to tell any kind of story. It also sort of flys in the face of when it's said that there are too many books for so and so to have a book but if that is the case how is there a whole line based on alternate characters. I mean alternate universes are nice to visit but imo it shows a lack of confidence in your main universe to have a secondary one.

[Iron Maiden]

This is a tough one.

As a fan of the early Ultimate Universe, I’d like to read similar stories and see a different/ modern take on MARVEL characters, with even more daring changes made including things like race swapping and connections between characters (think Fury and the links between Pym, Banner, Parker and Reed). I mean the fact Wolverine and Cable were the same person… those are the things I liked.

Unfortunately due to decisions at MARVEL which led to the Ultimate universe being made more and more similar to 616 and the ton of just bad stories (amongst others Ultimates 3) ending with the crapfest that was Ultimatum… I don’t think “rebooting” it may work. There were some good stories there amongst the wreckage and rebooting it erases those.

**I’d initially thought of how one could possibly fix it and I came up with MARVEL publishing a one-shot whereby Ultimate Beyonder resets the timeline or whatnot to a certain point in the Ultimate timeline and basically has a schedule - like those encyclopedias it used to publish - that states which stories remain and which were wiped from the timeline. Or just do what Millar did where he wrote out the Ultimate Iron Man comic as a tv show . I mean it’s not neat, but I’d take this over what we were left with. Of course this will be difficult cos what I think should remain may not be the same thing the next person thinks.

Anyway as to the issue of an actual reboot, I’ll say no but instead, try it again but with another universe (just create a new one…) and more importantly be committed. Identify your target market, and stay the course. Maybe even stick to certain writers - , Brubaker, Ellis, Hickman etc.

I have no interest in seeing anything Millar or Ennis would even care to develop. Their take on anything Marvel is usually very negative, particularly Ennis who loathes the superhero genre.

I read most of the Ultimate Universe stuff as it got started and it seemed that the writers had trouble keeping their new creation consistent. Some of their new visions were failure, Doom being a major case in point. That was particularly disappointing coming from Warren Ellis.
The longer it went on the less Millar, Bendis etc were interested in it. They left their titles except Bendis who kept Ultimate Spider-Man going. IIRC the Ultimate Fantastic Four limped along for the longest, about 50 issues. In the last arc Sue was trying to force Reed into making her pregnant.

[Ascended]

I'd use the Malibu universe characters and give them a revamp/update.

I don't think I'd want to see a full blown reboot and update of the Malibu line, but I definitely think there are characters there worth using, and if Marvel won't introduce them in the 616 then a new Ultimate line would be a good place.

I don't see it happening, but I don't see a problem with making another universe.

We already know the Ultimate line had a significant influence on the MCU.

Agreed. Ultimate Marvel gave us Sam Jackson Fury and Miles Morales and a bunch of other things that have slowly shifted to the 616 or the MCU. And stuff that goes into the MCU usually finds its way into the 616 eventually too.

I think there'd be potential in a new Ultimate line...but not any kind of reboot, revamp, or continuation of the original. Just do what made the line successful in the first place; a modern vision of the characters without any continuity or expectations holding the creators back.

[your_name_here]

If it is revisited, it will be the same way the 2099 universe is revisited. It’ll never stick the landing of the first time because, frankly, the time has been and gone.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

How about if Marvel took characters from different Universes and created one Universe from that? With the multiverse they basically have already done it. Just focus all these characters into a new line. Give it a one year trial. Combine Ultraverse, Ultimate, New Universe, Squadron Universe and whatever else they have sitting on the shelf. Just include DP7 and Spitfire and I’ll be happy.

After it is done they can all return to their original universes and go sit on the shelf again for another 50 years.

[Iron Maiden]

If it is revisited, it will be the same way the 2099 universe is revisited. It’ll never stick the landing of the first time because, frankly, the time has been and gone.

That recent 2099 mini-event was poorly done. I don't know if anyone can recapture that era but it was fun while it lasted.

[Alan2099]

The Ultimate Universe was already a reboot in a sense. At this point you're just copying a copy. It's not fresh anymore. The stuff that made the Ultimate comics work have since been copied into regular Marvel and the movies. We were getting more cinematic versions of heroes and that was fine because we didn't really have the more cinematic versions.

Well at least that seemed the original intent of the Ultimate Line, once The Ultimates came out it seemed to be more "How can we make the Marvel Universe more cynical and make everyone act more like jerks?" And even THAT was copied into the regular Marvel Universe with Civil War and we've long since moved past it.

Like the 2099 UNiverse, Heroes Reborn, and Age of Apocalypse, it's time is done and no attempts to return to it will ever recapture the magic.

[daredevil1]

Oh dear god, no! If it ended in 2009 with Ultimatum I would say "maybe," since it was such a time capsule for the 2000s that nostalgia might've set in. It represented a time and a place in comics. But they dragged that carcass out for so long, reboot after reboot every year with Alonso's endless new #1 fetish, that the brand lost all meaning and we actually saw what a "modern" Ultimate universe would look like. The emperor had no clothes, and 2015 was close enough to the present that we saw current trends take over before the end. It's kind of like The Simpsons, you can't reboot it because it never went away and overstayed its welcome far too long.

[MarvelMaster616]

Oh dear god, no! If it ended in 2009 with Ultimatum I would say "maybe," since it was such a time capsule for the 2000s that nostalgia might've set in. It represented a time and a place in comics. But they dragged that carcass out for so long, reboot after reboot every year with Alonso's endless new #1 fetish, that the brand lost all meaning and we actually saw what a "modern" Ultimate universe would look like. The emperor had no clothes, and 2015 was close enough to the present that we saw current trends take over before the end. It's kind of like The Simpsons, you can't reboot it because it never went away and overstayed its welcome far too long.

I completely understand that sentiment. And I acknowledged in the video that Ultimate went on way longer than it should've. When it finally ended in 2015, there wasn't much mourning or fanfare. At that point, Ultimate had just declined to such an extent that nobody could bring themselves to care about what happened to any character not named Miles Morales.

But I don't think Ultimate is like the Simpsons in that it can never be rebooted. I think Ultimate still had a lot to offer. It just lacked vision and purpose. It never had someone like a Kevin Feige to oversee the whole operation and make sure it still felt coherent. It had that initially with Bendis and Millar. But after Millar left, the series just lost any semblance of a meaningful plan. That was a mistake, definitely. But it's one Marvel can learn from.

There's no saving the Ultimate universe, as we knew it. That universe will never be viable again. But there is a chance that starting fresh could recapture some of that energy it had in the early 2000s. And I believe that's a chance worth taking.

[MarvelMaster616]

This morning, my next video in this series went live. This one involves me exploring what might go into a new version of Ultimate Avengers. Now, I know the original Ultimate comics called them the Ultimates. But I think that since the MCU has made the Avengers the biggest franchise in the world, any new Ultimate Universe should leverage that to the utmost. I also think it should distance itself from certain aspects of the original Ultimates. Because, let's face it, some of the characterizations and plots that Mark Millar did in those books would not work in the current market, nor would they go over well with current cultural trends. I won't give specifics, but if you read those books, you probably know the parts I'm referring to.

With that in mind, I attempted to envision how the Avengers might assemble in this world. And I'm very interested in what former Ultimate Marvel fans think of it. Enjoy!