Rebooting Ultimate Marvel: Should It Be Done?

[charliehustle415]

It's kinda wild that you can read an entire comic universe from beginning to end in this day and age.

That's why I think they should not reboot, just make a new line again. There's no reason to use the old ideas make a new line that is headed by another team of superstars just like Ultimate was.

I think it can be done start small and get bigger and blow it up. Have a vision in plan for 10 - 20 years and I think it could be the greatest narrative ever told.

[The Overlord]

Currently the one AU that keeps coming back is the one tied to Millar's Old Man Logan which debuted in his Fantastic Four run. Then there was an arc that started in Millar's Wolverine series. IIRC those issues were collected in a TPB. It was also used as the basis for the Logan movie with Hugh Jackman.

There have been a number of minis with the Wastelands of that AU as the locale, the most recent being last week's Wastelands: Doom. More mini series in that AU are due some time later this year I think.

The Red Skull was the leader of the group of villains who took over the United States but he gets killed later by Captain America IIRC.

Actually, Wolverine killed the Red Skull, Cap stays dead. They actually stick with only a small number of superheroes managing to survive after the super-villain take over, mainly Wolverine, Hawkeye, and Star-Lord, Hulk is still around, but he is a villain.

But that is currently the alternate universe that gets the most used by Marvel, heck there are a bunch of original Podcast audio dramas that are set in the Wastelands universe that is currently being released by Marvel and Sirius XM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel%27s_Wastelanders

The Ultimate Universe was very prominent at one point, early MCU borrowed from it and there were some Ultimates prose novels from the late 2000s. But clearly, the Wastelands are the big alternate reality now.

Also, I think the Ultimate Universe ruined a lot of the big villains, Magneto was a one-dimensional puppy-eating monster and they clearly ruined Doom and they never made any of the B-list villains more interesting to compensate. Electro is often a dimensional thug in the 616 comics and in the Ultimate Universe, he has even less depth, he is always a one-dimensional thug, 616 Sandman was kinda a gray character for a while, till that was ruined in 1998 and in the Ultimate Universe, he is always a one-dimensional thug who is said to have beaten up his girlfriend. They never did anything with any of the B-list villains, like Batman the animated series did with Mr. Freeze, make a one-note bad guy into a complex character. It often felt like Ultimate villains are one of 3 categories: jokes, one-dimensional thugs, and evil masterminds with almost no redeeming qualities.

Ultimates also feels dated at this point, it feels like very early 2000s War on Terror-type stories and it seems kinda played out. I also think it's not very representative, with most of the characters still being white and straight.

[Thor-Ul]

I suppose than the Marvel Ultimate universe will be resurrected eventually for nostalgia events or for special editions or celebrations issues, but i don't think it will ever recapture the zeitgeist of what it represented.
Also, Rebooting it is kinda pointless. As it was mentioned before, it was already the reboot of the main Marvel line. By revisiting it you should to put the emphasis on those aspects than make it stand in first place: Teenage peter, right wing Captain America, cannibal Hulk. And some of those topics would not stand modern day neopuritanism.

[Brian B]

Yes, Marvel should reboot the Ultimate Universe, so long as Jeph Loeb is overseeing the entire line.

[Aarkus]

I want to say yes, because early Ultimate Marvel was so great, but its lows were as low as its highs were high so I also want to say no. If anything, I'd rather they try again with another AU.

pretty much this. if this were to happen again, I'd hope to see it done with a lot more forethought as to how the thing will unfold... get a lot of the character and story pitches sorted and approved in advance, before the roll-out; so that someone can be left to oversee the whole thing, similar to what Feige does with the MCU stuff. after a while, Ultimate started to feel like writers just throwing ideas against a wall and seeing what would "stick", which led to the lack of consistency as the line flourished.

trying it again with a more focussed game plan, and a fresher take that reflects the past 20 years of real-world change, is the only way I'd want to see them revisit the idea.

anything less than having a fully-formed concept from the moment of launch, is bound to just end up in the same messy place that 1610 eventually did. not to mention, it would seem like a cheap cash grab at that point.

tl,dr: I'd only want to see this if they did it better this time around

[MarvelMaster616]

I suppose than the Marvel Ultimate universe will be resurrected eventually for nostalgia events or for special editions or celebrations issues, but i don't think it will ever recapture the zeitgeist of what it represented.
Also, Rebooting it is kinda pointless. As it was mentioned before, it was already the reboot of the main Marvel line. By revisiting it you should to put the emphasis on those aspects than make it stand in first place: Teenage peter, right wing Captain America, cannibal Hulk. And some of those topics would not stand modern day neopuritanism.

I agree that if Ultimate were to be resurrected, as you say, and rebuilt by whatever plot is unfolding with the Maker. It would garner some appeal due to nostalgia. But it won't come close to being as successful as it once was. That nostalgia will wear off quickly if there's no coherent long-term plan.

That's why I advocated in the video to start completely from scratch. Don't try to save anything from the previous Ultimate universe. There's no rebuilding that universe, no matter how successful it was in the early 2000s. It just has too much baggage at this point. And starting fresh would give everyone a chance to go in a different direction and craft a larger, long-term plan that will go beyond nostalgia. I think that can be done. It might not succeed on the same level as the original Ultimate universe, but I think it would succeed more than any attempt to resurrect Ultimate in its current form.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

If they did reboot it then they should stick to the changes and not try to copy the 616 verse, like when they had Logan and Jean together then got rid of it to put her with Scott again...

[Ultimate Captain America]

The problem with a full reboot is that you get rid of the bad, yes, but also the good. Make a narrative trick to get rid of some things but retain others? It can be done, it is done all the time, there are many tricks around (if it should be done is another question). Create again from scratch stories of the stature of Ultimate Spider-Man or Ultimates 2? Easier said than done.

Those stories are good, but "dated"? Which would be the problem, as long as they are good? The dated aspects can be easily updated if needed. If the "war on terror" allegory is no longer a thing, then make the Ultimates deal with a chain of left-wing dictatorships in South America under the facade of democracies. I would love to see Ultimate Captain America jumping without parachute in the middle of Venezuela...

[Thor-Ul]

That's why I advocated in the video to start completely from scratch. Don't try to save anything from the previous Ultimate universe. There's no rebuilding that universe, no matter how successful it was in the early 2000s. It just has too much baggage at this point. And starting fresh would give everyone a chance to go in a different direction and craft a larger, long-term plan that will go beyond nostalgia. I think that can be done. It might not succeed on the same level as the original Ultimate universe, but I think it would succeed more than any attempt to resurrect Ultimate in its current form.

But that basically would be to create a new whole alternate universe than it would be "Ultimate" just in name. Believe me, with that you only will upset the fans of the Ultimate series. Some readers even would feel (fairly) cheated.
The Ultimate universe was not only supported of the idea of "heroes debuting in the present", but also on the basis of the cinematic feeling, sell the characters to Hollywood. But with Marvel dominating the movies, the Ultimate universe lost its raison d'étrè.
You can create a new alternate world set in the present if you want, but don't call it "Ultimate" in that case. There you can go as crazy as want and do thing like say than Steve Rogers was black but the propagande sell him as a white man, Iron Man being a transhuman cyborg, Spider-Man being gay or the X-men being epitome of body horror.

[classyjazzy]

The problem with a full reboot is that you get rid of the bad, yes, but also the good. Make a narrative trick to get rid of some things but retain others? It can be done, it is done all the time, there are many tricks around (if it should be done is another question). Create again from scratch stories of the stature of Ultimate Spider-Man or Ultimates 2? Easier said than done.

Those stories are good, but "dated"? Which would be the problem, as long as they are good? The dated aspects can be easily updated if needed. If the "war on terror" allegory is no longer a thing, then make the Ultimates deal with a chain of left-wing dictatorships in South America under the facade of democracies. I would love to see Ultimate Captain America jumping without parachute in the middle of Venezuela...

The most cringe part of the Ultimate Universe was the war on terror allegory, and I don't think having the new Ultimate Universe deal with "left wing dictatorships" will be any better. I liked the Ultimate Universe but even I know it had probelmatic aspects and it would be good to reign that back. It ain't sensitivity, people just won't tolerate racism, homophobia or transphobia. More on the point of a reboot though, I feel Marvel would make the reboot more of a crash grab than anything.

[Ultimate Captain America]

That's exactly what I said earlier. It can't be done because of people who can not stand works with political overtones and who find racism at the most inane things.

[Ultimate Captain America]

But that basically would be to create a new whole alternate universe than it would be "Ultimate" just in name. Believe me, with that you only will upset the fans of the Ultimate series. Some readers even would feel (fairly) cheated.
The Ultimate universe was not only supported of the idea of "heroes debuting in the present", but also on the basis of the cinematic feeling, sell the characters to Hollywood. But with Marvel dominating the movies, the Ultimate universe lost its raison d'étrè.
You can create a new alternate world set in the present if you want, but don't call it "Ultimate" in that case. There you can go as crazy as want and do thing like say than Steve Rogers was black but the propagande sell him as a white man, Iron Man being a transhuman cyborg, Spider-Man being gay or the X-men being epitome of body horror.

Have in mind when we talk about "cinematic" stuff that not all cinema is the same. For example, there is hard and soft science fiction, and films set in a political context and purely escapist films. Despite drawing some inspiration from the Ultimate comics, the MCU does not follow the same cinematic standars.

[classyjazzy]

Or maybe they find racism at outdated **** that shouldn't be used in the modern age because frankly, we know better now.

[Thor-Ul]

Have in mind when we talk about "cinematic" stuff that not all cinema is the same. For example, there is hard and soft science fiction, and films set in a political context and purely escapist films. Despite drawing some inspiration from the Ultimate comics, the MCU does not follow the same cinematic standars.

In the context of the Ultimate Universe the term cinematic was to imply "widescreen action", not something like "the complexity and sadness of a plastic bag meanwhile is carried away gently by the winds". I will be more precise in the future.

[Thor-Ul]

Or maybe they find racism at outdated **** that shouldn't be used in the modern age because frankly, we know better now.

As I said: neopuritanism. And the illusion you are better than those who came before you.

Don't jugde the past so harsh by present standards. Thing you consider good acctions today will be considered rejected in the future.