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  1. #61
    Mighty Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Two of the most impressive things for me in Feige’s track record are the volume of quality projects he’s producing at the same time and that each series grows. Out of all the series, only IM2 and AOU didn’t improve on their predecessors domestic box office. That’s crazy good when sequels usually decline.

    Greatest is subjective and people can have different criteria for producers but he’s definitely led the MCU to something that’s never been done before.

  2. #62
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I'm in the Woody Allen/George C. Scott camp when it comes to the Oscars: Why are movies and the people who take part in them being pitted against each other in a competition?
    Human nature? Most fields of work have awards, we just hear about the ones in the entertainment industries, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I don't like being judged by people who I don't even know, so I really don't understand why entertainers want to take part in these pretentious and self-indulgent events for that very reason. I feel the same way about the Rock and Roll and Pro Football Hall of Fames as well. In showbiz, the only thing that matters is making $$$ (to me). And in sports (and in politics), the only thing that matters is WINNING
    Well you're not being judged by strangers, you're being praised by peers. They know each others work, if not each other. And it awards great achievements in their field; as with any other job. It's perfectly nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    (and that kind of winning requires no judges and critics determining the results)
    Pretty sure referees exist. And from what I gather, it's far from agreed upon as the right call everytime on the pitch, so it's very much about judges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    If Avatar can win a bunch of Oscars, superhero movies should be treated the same way. My problem is that Marvel Studios execs now seem OBSESSED with getting validation from entertainment industry elites ever since Scorsese and Coppola complained about blockbuster franchises not being "cinema." That's why I HATE this campaigning bullshit. And I'm speaking from the perspective of a HUGE MCU fan.
    Avatar won a bunch of technical awards, let's not forget. It won Cinematography, Visual Effects and Art Direction. That's it. And it was a WEAK year. Very weak. A superhero film can 100% win big awards... but if Marvel won't let their films be truly bold, I don't see it happening. And that's not the Oscars fault.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 01-16-2022 at 02:28 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    You're probably right there. I must admit I didn't know Marvel Studios did any campaigning for awards, so I thought this was a new phenomenon. I agree with you that most MCU stuff is traditional superhero fare. I just thought WandaVision being a homage to sitcoms of yesteryear was something Marvel execs KNEW would gain a lot of appreciation from television critics and possibly get some Emmy Awards (which it did). I think Disney thought that the Eternals being sort of Marvel's version of a "historical epic" might gain them some Oscar recognition as well. So I think both products were "awards-baity." I think Sony and Disney are campaigning again and it's annoying to me:

    https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/osc...home-for-real/

    In most cases it's screeners for the entire film or an entire season or a set number of episodes.

    Black Panther had 3 different versions.

    GOTG 2 had one.

    Endgame had one.

    Netflix Marvel for all the shows.

    Antman had one.

    Hulu Marvel had one.

    ABC (like Netflix) will send voters an entire box of all the shows and movies that they want nominations for.

  4. #64
    Incredible Member chicago_bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Avatar won a bunch of technical awards, let's not forget. It won Cinematography, Visual Effects and Art Direction. That's it. And it was a WEAK year. Very weak. A superhero film can 100% win big awards... but if Marvel won't let their films be truly bold, I don't see it happening. And that's not the Oscars fault.
    This year is also very weak and yet NWH will likely only get a VFX nomination and win none.

    Also the only thing that was bold about Avatar was that they had the guts to rip people off with a technical gimmick to present them with a raked up Pocahontas story.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    This year is also very weak and yet NWH will likely only get a VFX nomination and win none.

    Also the only thing that was bold about Avatar was that they had the guts to rip people off with a technical gimmick to present them with a raked up Pocahontas story.
    I strongly disagree that this is a week year, though a bunch of great movies are going to be iced out of the Oscars as always.

  6. #66
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    This year is also very weak and yet NWH will likely only get a VFX nomination and win none.
    This is not a weak year, this is a strong year. If it was a weak year, Dune would be sailing towards a Best Picture win and 9 Oscars (including acting nominations), and instead it'll probably get very little outside of technical. And sequels always struggle, this is the 9th big screen Spiderman film in 20 years, correct? How many 9th installments do you know that sail towards artistic glory? It's like a magic trick, first time is amazing, second time is really good, but after the 3rd time... it's still a good trick, but has no freshness.

    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    Also the only thing that was bold about Avatar was that they had the guts to rip people off with a technical gimmick to present them with a raked up Pocahontas story.
    Avatar was the first truly epic 3D film, and utilized it in a way that had never been done to such a degree, on such a scale. On technicality, it was a benchmark moment in cinema.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  7. #67
    Incredible Member chicago_bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    This is not a weak year, this is a strong year. If it was a weak year, Dune would be sailing towards a Best Picture win and 9 Oscars (including acting nominations), and instead it'll probably get very little outside of technical. And sequels always struggle, this is the 9th big screen Spiderman film in 20 years, correct? How many 9th installments do you know that sail towards artistic glory? It's like a magic trick, first time is amazing, second time is really good, but after the 3rd time... it's still a good trick, but has no freshness.
    Dune wouldn't have been a frontrunner for the best movie in any year of the last decade, but for this year I actually have trouble to name a film that is clearly better (there are some of similar quality like The Green Knight or The Power of the Dog though), which is pretty sad as Dune isn't even close to being Villeneuve's best film. And Dune wouldn't have gotten a nomination in the acting categories in any year of the past decade so no idea what you are implying there.

    Anyway, the Oscars are not exactly the best indicator for movie quality so Dune winning much or not won't tell us anything about this year's quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Avatar was the first truly epic 3D film, and utilized it in a way that had never been done to such a degree, on such a scale. On technicality, it was a benchmark moment in cinema.
    How can it be a benchmark when only ten years later nobody cares for 3D at all? It's a mere footnote in movie history rather than a benchmark.

    And even if it were a benchmark that still wouldn't make it a great movie. Is The Jazz Singer hailed as a great movie because it was the first sound film? And that was actually a true benchmark in movie history and not just a gimmick that is forgotten ten years later. Is The Robe a great movie because it was the first one shot in Cinemascope? A technical benchmark means nothing when the movie isn't good and Avatar is so poor in terms of screenplay, story, character development and acting that no technical aspects in the world could push it to greatness.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  8. #68
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    Dune wouldn't have been a frontrunner for the best movie in any year of the last decade, but for this year I actually have trouble to name a film that is clearly better (there are some of similar quality like The Green Knight or The Power of the Dog though), which is pretty sad as Dune isn't even close to being Villeneuve's best film. And Dune wouldn't have gotten a nomination in the acting categories in any year of the past decade so no idea what you are implying there.
    I present to you... 2020! And that was just off the top of my head, ha!

    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    Anyway, the Oscars are not exactly the best indicator for movie quality so Dune winning much or not won't tell us anything about this year's quality.
    Well they are chosen by those at the top of their field, to brush aside their wealth of knowledge is... a little silly. They aren't always right, but their opinion is (not just informed but) expert knowledge. It's worth noting and paying attention to, at the very least.

    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    How can it be a benchmark when only ten years later nobody cares for 3D at all? It's a mere footnote in movie history rather than a benchmark.
    Lots in the industry are still looking to 3D, to new technology, to the next big thing; and many have said they're waiting to see what Avatar 2 brings before they make their next decision in regards to the future of 3D.

    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    And even if it were a benchmark that still wouldn't make it a great movie. Is The Jazz Singer hailed as a great movie because it was the first sound film? And that was actually a true benchmark in movie history and not just a gimmick that is forgotten ten years later. Is The Robe a great movie because it was the first one shot in Cinemascope? A technical benchmark means nothing when the movie isn't good and Avatar is so poor in terms of screenplay, story, character development and acting that no technical aspects in the world could push it to greatness.
    Well Birth of a Nation is still heralded as a benchmark of cinema, and still considered one of the most important films of cinema. Doesn't mean it's a GOOD film, just that it's important. Your arguement was Avatar wasn't bold, and I find that... ill informed. I never said it was a masterpiece, merely important and bold.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  9. #69
    Incredible Member chicago_bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I present to you... 2020! And that was just off the top of my head, ha!
    So you resort to a year that had most US cinemas shut down for roughly ten months and therefore had the lowest output of theatrical films for a long time. And still Promising Young Woman and Another Round are easily better than this year's slate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Lots in the industry are still looking to 3D, to new technology, to the next big thing; and many have said they're waiting to see what Avatar 2 brings before they make their next decision in regards to the future of 3D.

    Well Birth of a Nation is still heralded as a benchmark of cinema, and still considered one of the most important films of cinema. Doesn't mean it's a GOOD film, just that it's important. Your arguement was Avatar wasn't bold, and I find that... ill informed. I never said it was a masterpiece, merely important and bold.
    The reason for that could be that many of Griffith's filming techniques were adapted by other filmmakers and still continue to get used to this day. The 3D gimmick was adapted for a very short period of time by directors like Martin Scorsese and Peter Jackson but that faded away rather quickly. A period lasting from 2009 to roughly 2014 is hardly enough to speak of a landmark. So Avatar 2 better have ten times that longevity to justify even mentioning that franchise in the same sentence as Birth of a Nation.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  10. #70
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    Dune wouldn't have been a frontrunner for the best movie in any year of the last decade
    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I present to you... 2020!
    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    So you resort to a year that had most US cinemas shut down for roughly ten months and therefore had the lowest output of theatrical films for a long time.
    Maybe you and I have a different definition of what can justifiably fall under the banner of 'the last decade'?

    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    The reason for that could be that many of Griffith's filming techniques were adapted by other filmmakers and still continue to get used to this day. The 3D gimmick was adapted for a very short period of time by directors like Martin Scorsese and Peter Jackson but that faded away rather quickly. A period lasting from 2009 to roughly 2014 is hardly enough to speak of a landmark. So Avatar 2 better have ten times that longevity to justify even mentioning that franchise in the same sentence as Birth of a Nation.
    What Cameron did with 3D filming revolutionized the medium, and various elements have been extrapolated into other areas of camera work, because of that. I think you're being WAY too harsh on how bold it was, just because you didn't like the film.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    The question is a bit excessive.

    Someone can think he's really good or even the best producer working today, without believing he's better than everyone in Hollywood's golden age.

    Though he does have the best track record, and he has managed the most consistent successes in movie theaters at a time when the industry is suffering.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Maybe you and I have a different definition of what can justifiably fall under the banner of 'the last decade'?


    What Cameron did with 3D filming revolutionized the medium, and various elements have been extrapolated into other areas of camera work, because of that. I think
    Yeah, I have explained many times about Cameron. The idea that Avatar is equal to MCU movies in terms of ''film'' is artistically not accurate because Avatar was revolutionary in film making.

    you're being WAY too harsh on how bold it was, just because you didn't like the film.
    harshness is not a surprising term here due to the James Cameron/Marvel movies beef that has been around since Cameron said ''bad'' things about Avengers movies, what people need to understand is that James Cameron and the supposed beef isn't even there to Cameron. he sees MCU films, as everything he does not do and felt they were for the best in taking cinema to a whole new level. Aliens, Terminator, Titanic, Avatar.

    James Cameron also writes, directs, edits and produces and he does this on his own terms. He is way above Feige's league here as a film maker.

    Let also make it simpler to show Cameron is the master here.

    Is there any Feige marvel movie post-2009 that can be watched in 3D on the same visual film masterclass experience as Avatar or Titanic 3D? No.

    My advice watching a Feige marvel film. Stick to 2D and do not bother with the 3D covert version of the film. I saw Avengers 2012 both in 3D and 2D. The 2D was far better. 3D wasted my money. I saw Avatar on more than multiple occasions in 3D and I enjoyed both experiences.
    Last edited by Castle; 01-18-2022 at 06:09 AM.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Is there any Feige marvel movie post-2009 that can be watched in 3D on the same visual film masterclass experience as Avatar or Titanic 3D? No.
    And why would there be? 3D was a fad. It was popular for all of about 2 years before limping off into obscurity again. There's a reason barely any movies are specifically made for 3D anymore.
    Last Read: Miles Morales Vol. 6: All Eyes On Me

    Monthly Pull List: Batgirls, Batman/Catwoman, Catwoman, The Flash, Iron Fist, Nightwing, Rogues, Superman: Son of Kal-El

  14. #74
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post

    Is there any Feige marvel movie post-2009 that can be watched in 3D on the same visual film masterclass experience as Avatar or Titanic 3D? No.

    Titanic 3D was post-production 3D, not shot with 3D cameras like Avatar. It has the same flaws as all post-production 3D movies, including all MCU, Snyderverse and Star Wars films. Students of film would know that post-production 3D is a gimmick that is a detriment to the film. I have no idea why any film class would show Titanic in 3D, except to show how superfluous post-production 3D is, and how it hurts the cinematography.
    There are a small handful of films, shot in 3D since Avatar.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 01-18-2022 at 09:00 AM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  15. #75
    Incredible Member chicago_bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Maybe you and I have a different definition of what can justifiably fall under the banner of 'the last decade'?
    This response only works when you delete the second sentence of my post which you did for no reason. But then I'll repeat it: Despite having a comparably small film output 2020 still managed to bring out two movies that are head and shoulders above Dune.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

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