Is Marvel President Kevin Feige The Greatest Producer That’s Ever Lived?

[Thezmage]

Lastly 3D is not a gimmick. The films that came after avatar and tried to do the money avatar did but without the heavy lifting Cameron put in the film making was the real gimmick.

3-D has been a gimmick at least since Friday the 13th part 3

What Cameron has achieved with 3 point turning films in cinema (Terminator 1-2, Titanic and Avatar) has been far more impactful to the world of film making than all the 27 MCU films Feige has produced. Feige movies are popcorn fun produced by a well oiled cooperate machine as Disney. Cameroon's movies are personal art.

If the MCU hadn't been "impactful to the world of film making" then everybody wouldn't be trying to make cinematic universes, and if Avatar had been then people wouldn't have stopped talking about it nearly immediately after it came out.

Seriously, the only time people talk about Avatar these days is to marvel at how much it's dropped off of the cultural landscape. Four sequels that keep getting pushed back and a portion of Walt Disney World is pretty much all the impact we can see.

[Brian B]

If the MCU hadn't been "impactful to the world of film making" then everybody wouldn't be trying to make cinematic universes, and if Avatar had been then people wouldn't have stopped talking about it nearly immediately after it came out.

Seriously, the only time people talk about Avatar these days is to marvel at how much it's dropped off of the cultural landscape. Four sequels that keep getting pushed back and a portion of Walt Disney World is pretty much all the impact we can see.

The MCU movies and streaming TV shows have been very impactful on the film industry in a financial way. I don’t know that they have had a positive impact from an artistic perspective. Although, as a Marvel fan, I have enjoyed them.

[Castle]

3-D has been a gimmick at least since Friday the 13th part 3
.

I think you misread what I said. I agreed that 3D has been a gimmick , however for films that did not follow what Avatar did. Films that took the short cut to earn the money Avatar was earning.

If the MCU hadn't been "impactful to the world of film making" then everybody wouldn't be trying to make cinematic universes, and if Avatar had been then people wouldn't have stopped talking about it nearly immediately after it came out.

Seriously, the only time people talk about Avatar these days is to marvel at how much it's dropped off of the cultural landscape. Four sequels that keep getting pushed back and a portion of Walt Disney World is pretty much all the impact we can see.

I just try to be honest as much as I can here. In fact I find the marvel actors pretty nice and friendly and many of them very passionate in their roles and I agree that MCU movies are fun but I do have to see the great point of the fair criticism that has come to MCU from an overwhelming majority of film makers.

if MCU has been impactful , a lot of directors will like their films and will want to use them as templates for their own, even on a 50-50 balance of like to dislike, So many directors have come out strongly against marvel for their film making approach that even I as a film auteur fan, I have lost count and dont think it is worth a ''big film news'' anytime that some famous director is saying marvel movies are problematic or whatever. Infact just this week, James Cameron and Dennis Villeneve called out mcu movies again for the lack of film making and used Dune as an example of what MCU should be doing.

So to say their movies are impactful leaves me to ask how? is their story depth, screen-play, sound mixing, cinemathogprhay or VFX changing the game?

If great reference to this, my all time favourite director/writer Billy Wilder never really produced a film and despite his 21 Oscar nominations, he was barley nominated for best picture which goes to the producers, I think he had only one nomination for producer. the rest were for directing/writing, however Billy Wilder was still the master-man of all those classic films he did even if he never had a producer credit on many of them. a guy like Wilder, would never have succeeded under Feige as his producer and I will say Wilder is the most impactful writer/director of all time and one of the best film makers ever.

Marvel is impactful for making money...teaching other studios how to make money, however if we are talking of film making auter, where we have to consider story depth, screen-play, sound, cinemathogprhay or VFX, creative thought of freedom , and directing. it is a totally different story. I really do know the top tier Marvel films from sony/fox have will have a far stronger claim to this ''impact'' we are talking about at least from an artistic film corner of film making.

[Brian B]

I think you misread what I said. I agreed that 3D has been a gimmick , however for films that did not follow what Avatar did. Films that took the short cut to earn the money Avatar was earning.



I just try to be honest as much as I can here. In fact I find the marvel actors pretty nice and friendly and many of them very passionate in their roles and I agree that MCU movies are fun but I do have to see the great point of the fair criticism that has come to MCU from an overwhelming majority of film makers.

if MCU has been impactful , a lot of directors will like their films and will want to use them as templates for their own, even on a 50-50 balance of like to dislike, So many directors have come out strongly against marvel for their film making approach that even I as a film auteur fan, I have lost count and dont think it is worth a ''big film news'' anytime that some famous director is saying marvel movies are problematic or whatever. Infact just this week, James Cameron and Dennis Villeneve called out mcu movies again for the lack of film making and used Dune as an example of what MCU should be doing.

So to say their movies are impactful leaves me to ask how? is their story depth, screen-play, sound mixing, cinemathogprhay or VFX changing the game?

If great reference to this, my all time favourite director/writer Billy Wilder never really produced a film and despite his 21 Oscar nomination, he was barley nominated for best picture which goes to the producers, I think he had only one nomination for producer. however Billy Wilder was still the mastermind of all those classic films he did even if he never had a producer credit on many of them. a guy like Wilder, would never have succeeded under Feige as his producer and I will say Wilder is the most impactful writer/director of all time and one of the best film makers ever.

Marvel is impactful for making money...teaching other studios how to make money, however if we are talking of film making auter, where we have to consider story depth, screen-play, sound, cinemathogprhay or VFX and directing. it is a totally different story. I really do know the top tier Marvel films from sony/fox have will have a far stronger claim to this ''impact'' we are talking about at least from an artistic film corner of film making.

I agree with a lot of what you’ve written here. Except, criticism of the MCU coming from James Cameron and Dennis Villeneve is silly. Those two are as much into the big studio, tent pole productions as any MCU director or producer, more than most of them even. I see very little difference between what those two do and what the Russo brothers or James Gunn have done for the MCU.

Scorsese criticizing the MCU is something I understand. If a Coppola or a Gus Van Sant, or even a John Boorman — someone of that caliber — were to complain about the MCU or DC Films, I would listen.

Harsh critiques of the MCU coming from the likes of Cameron and Villeneve just sounds like professional jealousy, envy, and sour grapes to me. Those two are all about the big-budget, tent pole fare. I’m not saying they’re not artists, but they are pop artists at best. I don’t give a damn how many academy awards he has won. James Cameron ain’t no Kurosawa or even a David Lean. Cameron is as much a hack as Jon Favreau, maybe more so. Cameron has never done anything but big-budget schlock. I like popcorn movies more than the average person, but for gossipy snipes like this, consider where Cameron is really coming from. It’s not some place of pure, artistic integrity.

[WebLurker]

I agree with a lot of what you’ve written here. Except, criticism of the MCU coming from James Cameron and Dennis Villeneve is silly. Those two are as much into the big studio, tent pole productions as any MCU director or producer, more than most of them even. I see very little difference between what those two do and what the Russo brothers or James Gunn have done for the MCU.

Yeah, there's really nothing separating Cameron's Avatar from the MCU and similar movies in terms of their niche in the medium. Heck, I'd argue that Avatar is a severe step down from the average MCU movie in terms of substance, certainly not on the level of James Gunn's work or the Russos' MCU stuff. Course, I don't think Avatar was ever a good movie period, so take that for what it's worth.

Scorsese criticizing the MCU is something I understand. If a Coppola or a Gus Van Sant, or even a John Boorman — someone of that caliber — were to complain about the MCU or DC Films, I would listen.

The key problem I had with Scorsese was that he hadn't even seen half the movies he was writing off. Don't think he had a good argument in the first place, but at least watch something before critiquing it.

Harsh critiques of the MCU coming from the likes of Cameron and Villeneve just sounds like professional jealousy, envy, and sour grapes to me. Those two are all about the big-budget, tent pole fare. I’m not saying they’re not artists, but they are pop artists at best. I don’t give a damn how many academy awards he has won. James Cameron ain’t no Kurosawa or even a David Lean. Cameron is as much a hack as Jon Favreau, maybe more so. Cameron has never done anything but big-budget schlock. I like popcorn movies more than the average person, but for gossipy snipes like this, consider where Cameron is really coming from. It’s not some place of pure, artistic integrity.

Why do they get so mad that the MCU was a success, anyways?

[chicago_bastard]

A guy who is by the looks of it so butthurt about Endgame taking away his box office record that he almost immediately had to make a re-release of Avatar in China just to get said record back can obviously not exactly be described as a filmmaker who values artistic merit over commercial success.

It's funny, Paul Thomas Anderson, who makes films that are more "artistic" than the movies of Cameron could ever hope to be, has a very healthy opinion on MCU movies: https://www.indiewire.com/2021/12/pa...ma-1234685162/

He is doing his thing and can easily coexist with the different approach of the MCU movies. Cameron isn't an artist like PTA, he's a blockbuster director and therefore he sees them as competition.

[Brian B]

A guy who is by the looks of it so butthurt about Endgame taking away his box office record that he almost immediately had to make a re-release of Avatar in China just to get said record back can obviously not exactly be described as a filmmaker who values artistic merit over commercial success.

It's funny, Paul Thomas Anderson, who makes films that are more "artistic" than the movies of Cameron could ever hope to be, has a very healthy opinion on MCU movies: https://www.indiewire.com/2021/12/pa...ma-1234685162/

He is doing his thing and can easily coexist with the different approach of the MCU movies. Cameron isn't an artist like PTA, he's a blockbuster director and therefore he sees them as competition.

That was an interesting little article. I like Anderson’s attitude about MCU films.

Again, if Anderson were complaining about MCU movies, I would listen. I would take it seriously. I have read what Scorsese has to say about the MCU movies. I can see how he arrives at his opinion.

I think Anderson is closer to understanding some of the positive financial effects on the industry that Scorsese is not noticing, like Spider-Man helping to keep theaters going.

I also had no idea Ridley Scott was critical of MCU movies, too. There again, that’s the pot calling the kettle black. The vast majority, not all, but most of Ridley Scott’s career has been about chasing big box-office bucks. I loved Alien. But it’s just a horror genre classic. It’s not some high-falutin film. He’s done the occasional serious movie, unlike Cameron, such as All the Money in the World or House of Gucci. But this is the guy who made Prometheus and Alien:Covenant, too. Does he really think he is suffering from some wrong somehow, that the audience for House of Gucci isn’t paying attention because of Marvel? Or is he just pissed that Marvel does genre better than him these days? Is it because Alien: Covenant grossed “only” $200+ million, while almost $2.5 BILLION was grossed just between Guardians Vol. 2, Spider-Man: Homecoming and Thor: Ragnorak? I get why a Scorsese is grumpy. Cameron and Ridley Scott? Come off it, guys. I think their professional envy is showing.

I am not immune to appeals to artistic merit, but when some of the complaints are coming from fellow schlock artists, what’s the real motivation?

[The Kid]

Eh it was China that chose to re-release Avatar to boost up the box office. IIRC Cameron doesn't actually own distribution in China but a local Chinese company does. That said I did find it funny that Avatar took the box office crown very shortly after Endgame had passed it

[Castle]

I agree with a lot of what you’ve written here. Except, criticism of the MCU coming from James Cameron and Dennis Villeneve is silly. Those two are as much into the big studio, tent pole productions as any MCU director or producer, more than most of them even. I see very little difference between what those two do and what the Russo brothers or James Gunn have done for the MCU.

Scorsese criticizing the MCU is something I understand. If a Coppola or a Gus Van Sant, or even a John Boorman — someone of that caliber — were to complain about the MCU or DC Films, I would listen.

Harsh critiques of the MCU coming from the likes of Cameron and Villeneve just sounds like professional jealousy, envy, and sour grapes to me. Those two are all about the big-budget, tent pole fare. I’m not saying they’re not artists, but they are pop artists at best. I don’t give a damn how many academy awards he has won. James Cameron ain’t no Kurosawa or even a David Lean. Cameron is as much a hack as Jon Favreau, maybe more so. Cameron has never done anything but big-budget schlock. I like popcorn movies more than the average person, but for gossipy snipes like this, consider where Cameron is really coming from. It’s not some place of pure, artistic integrity.

I would disagree with Cameron and Dennis. To make a call back, I was one of the few here that did point out the jarring quality gap between Eternals and Dune when both trailers came out in august/september 2021. I remember myself saying that Eternals cinemathogprhay does not look as rich as Dune, despite the fact some fans were saying this was the best mcu looking film yet.
I also said that despite the hype of Eternals with Oscar winning Zhao as the director and push of the artistic side, I still was not seeing it and it did not help that Eternals came out just 2 weeks or so after Dune and confirmed everything I already saw coming, so I disagree with Dennis and the production big studio stuff. Dennis is no where near the widow dressing director of any of his films.

If we look at Dennis films from Arrival, Blade Runner, Prisoners and now Dune. Dennis is really growing as a film maker. I really do see him as one of the top 5 best sci-fi directors right now. Feige movies have remained the same in the last 10 years, to be more honest I will say MCU movies now are even a step down from the promise of Iron Man 1.

As for Cameron, he is very well known in Hollywood as an artistic guy, I heard he clashed with Fox/Paramount on Titanic going overbudget but still got his way.

Dennis and Cameron make big studio films. they are our generations Cecil B Demile and William Wyler. they are not like Russos. the russos had to use a template that was already set for them almost 4 years in advance. the Russo's follow a formula style of movie. Endgame/Infinity Wars are the exact same films as all the MCU films in style. Dune is nothing like Arrival in style.

Laslty I dont think they are jealous, at least not artistically. I can see them being financially jealous after all they still humans, but artistically jealous, I dont see that. there will be sympathy for the likes of Dennis and even Spielberg, for putting out movies like Dune and West Side Story, only for another Disney safe guarded big studio like No Way Home to destroy their films at the box office that were more artistic in scope and vision.

Spielberg along with Cameron been one of the few that could ...once upon a time make big box office and have the artistry to balance it. it is not happening anymore, meanwhile MCU sticks to their very cooperate formula and grows in box office everyday. I do see Cameron and Dennis be frustrated by that.

Lastly I just dont like this very tense rivalry between James Cameron and MCU, I feel as if whatever Cameron said about marvel.it is best not to get into a direct level debate because Cameron has been more revolutionary. I get MCU vs DC or even MCU vs James Bond, but not MCU vs Cameron. Can it be honestly said that an upcoming aspiring film marker will choose Feige's filmography over Cameron's? Personally for me, I won't.

[Noodle]

Lastly I just dont like this very tense rivalry between James Cameron and MCU,

It's not a rivalry, much less a "tense" once. It's just Cameron yelling at clouds. Marvel doesn't care.

[thwhtGuardian]

It's not a rivalry, much less a "tense" once. It's just Cameron yelling at clouds. Marvel doesn't care.

Nobody cares, not just Marvel.

[Brian B]

I would disagree with Cameron and Dennis. To make a call back, I was one of the few here that did point out the jarring quality gap between Eternals and Dune when both trailers came out in august/september 2021. I remember myself saying that Eternals cinemathogprhay does not look as rich as Dune, despite the fact some fans were saying this was the best mcu looking film yet.
I also said that despite the hype of Eternals with Oscar winning Zhao as the director and push of the artistic side, I still was not seeing it and it did not help that Eternals came out just 2 weeks or so after Dune and confirmed everything I already saw coming, so I disagree with Dennis and the production big studio stuff. Dennis is no where near the widow dressing director of any of his films.

If we look at Dennis films from Arrival, Blade Runner, Prisoners and now Dune. Dennis is really growing as a film maker. I really do see him as one of the top 5 best sci-fi directors right now. Feige movies have remained the same in the last 10 years, to be more honest I will say MCU movies now are even a step down from the promise of Iron Man 1.

As for Cameron, he is very well known in Hollywood as an artistic guy, I heard he clashed with Fox/Paramount on Titanic going overbudget but still got his way.

Dennis and Cameron make big studio films. they are our generations Cecil B Demile and William Wyler. they are not like Russos. the russos had to use a template that was already set for them almost 4 years in advance. the Russo's follow a formula style of movie. Endgame/Infinity Wars are the exact same films as all the MCU films in style. Dune is nothing like Arrival in style.

Laslty I dont think they are jealous, at least not artistically. I can see them being financially jealous after all they still humans, but artistically jealous, I dont see that. there will be sympathy for the likes of Dennis and even Spielberg, for putting out movies like Dune and West Side Story, only for another Disney safe guarded big studio like No Way Home to destroy their films at the box office that were more artistic in scope and vision.

Spielberg along with Cameron been one of the few that could ...once upon a time make big box office and have the artistry to balance it. it is not happening anymore, meanwhile MCU sticks to their very cooperate formula and grows in box office everyday. I do see Cameron and Dennis be frustrated by that.

Lastly I just dont like this very tense rivalry between James Cameron and MCU, I feel as if whatever Cameron said about marvel.it is best not to get into a direct level debate because Cameron has been more revolutionary. I get MCU vs DC or even MCU vs James Bond, but not MCU vs Cameron. Can it be honestly said that an upcoming aspiring film marker will choose Feige's filmography over Cameron's? Personally for me, I won't.

You say those two, Cameron and Villeneuve, are some kind of artists. All I see are genre directors.

And yes, of course, I believe their professional jealousy is about money. Look how much the Russos have made.

Their jealousy isn’t likely motivated by art. Ripping off Roger Dean (Cameron) and remaking David Lynch’s biggest flop (Villeneuve) are hardly artistic endeavors.

[WebLurker]

I would disagree with Cameron and Dennis. To make a call back, I was one of the few here that did point out the jarring quality gap between Eternals and Dune when both trailers came out in august/september 2021. I remember myself saying that Eternals cinemathogprhay does not look as rich as Dune, despite the fact some fans were saying this was the best mcu looking film yet.
I also said that despite the hype of Eternals with Oscar winning Zhao as the director and push of the artistic side, I still was not seeing it and it did not help that Eternals came out just 2 weeks or so after Dune and confirmed everything I already saw coming, so I disagree with Dennis and the production big studio stuff. Dennis is no where near the widow dressing director of any of his films.

Visuals are only once piece of the puzzle, possibly the least important. (Special effects have a short shelf life; the ones that last are the ones are the ones where there's more to hook the viewers, like how the cheaper original Star Trek TV show has outlasted the bigger-budgeted Lost in Space. We'll be still watching the best MCU movies decades from now. Can we say the same about Avatar, which is already been irrelevant for years?)

If we look at Dennis films from Arrival, Blade Runner, Prisoners and now Dune. Dennis is really growing as a film maker. I really do see him as one of the top 5 best sci-fi directors right now.

Still need to get around to Blade Runner.

Feige movies have remained the same in the last 10 years, to be more honest I will say MCU movies now are even a step down from the promise of Iron Man 1.

Let's be honest; they have changed, you just don't like them. Nothing wrong with that, but let's stick with the facts here.

As for Cameron, he is very well known in Hollywood as an artistic guy, I heard he clashed with Fox/Paramount on Titanic going overbudget but still got his way.

He kinda struck me as a poor man's George Lucas in that regard, but then, I always thought that Pandora was pretty overrated (reminded me of the various Star Wars worlds, but with only a fraction of the detail and imagination to the design).

Dennis and Cameron make big studio films. they are our generations Cecil B Demile and William Wyler. they are not like Russos. the russos had to use a template that was already set for them almost 4 years in advance.

Cameron made Avatar; this isn't high art here.

the Russo's follow a formula style of movie. Endgame/Infinity Wars are the exact same films as all the MCU films in style. Dune is nothing like Arrival in style.

Just like how Infinity War and Endame were nothing like the Russo's Winter Soldier (a political thriller)? Heck, for that matter, they're nothing like the Guardians of the Galaxy movies (space opera), or the original Captain America (historical war movie), or the Spider-Man films (John Huges-style coming of age), or the Ant-Man films (heist), or Iron Man 3 and Thor: Ragnarok (both of which were made in the distinct styles of their directors), Doctor Strange (fantasy), Black Panther (Shakespearian drama), Captain Marvel ('90s buddy cop), Black Widow (spy thriller), or Eternals (epic). Need I go on?

The only thing they're like are the previous Avengers movies, which is logical, since they are part of that sub-series within the franchise. The moral of the story here is that, as noted before, the MCU films have changed considerably since the series inception, broadening the horizons of what they can be and where they can go. Long story short, there is no MCU formula; that's a confirmed fact.

Laslty I dont think they are jealous, at least not artistically. I can see them being financially jealous after all they still humans, but artistically jealous, I dont see that. there will be sympathy for the likes of Dennis and even Spielberg, for putting out movies like Dune and West Side Story, only for another Disney safe guarded big studio like No Way Home to destroy their films at the box office that were more artistic in scope and vision.

Spielberg along with Cameron been one of the few that could ...once upon a time make big box office and have the artistry to balance it. it is not happening anymore, meanwhile MCU sticks to their very cooperate formula and grows in box office everyday. I do see Cameron and Dennis be frustrated by that.

They might not be jealous (although it's beyond odd that they get angry over another company having success doing something different), but you kinda do. Just saying.

Lastly I just dont like this very tense rivalry between James Cameron and MCU, I feel as if whatever Cameron said about marvel.it is best not to get into a direct level debate because Cameron has been more revolutionary. I get MCU vs DC or even MCU vs James Bond, but not MCU vs Cameron. Can it be honestly said that an upcoming aspiring film marker will choose Feige's filmography over Cameron's? Personally for me, I won't.

I seriously doubt that Marvel Studios feels any sense of rivalry with Cameron.

Also, if I was an aspiring filmmaker, there are artists I'd bee looking to long before Cameron's name came up, even in the context of blockbuster popcorn films.

[Kirby101]

Dune sucked, and Blade Runner 2049 sucked, that is all.

[numberthirty]

It's not a rivalry, much less a "tense" once. It's just Cameron yelling at clouds. Marvel doesn't care.

Nobody cares, not just Marvel.

Marvel is to busy actually getting things done and into theaters to care.

Cameron should probably start taking notes.