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  1. #106
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Dune sucked, and Blade Runner 2049 sucked, that is all.
    I loved both.
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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Marvel is to busy actually getting things done and into theaters to care.

    Cameron should probably start taking notes.
    Exactly.

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  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I also had no idea Ridley Scott was critical of MCU movies, too. There again, that’s the pot calling the kettle black. The vast majority, not all, but most of Ridley Scott’s career has been about chasing big box-office bucks. I loved Alien. But it’s just a horror genre classic. It’s not some high-falutin film. He’s done the occasional serious movie, unlike Cameron, such as All the Money in the World or House of Gucci. But this is the guy who made Prometheus and Alien:Covenant, too. Does he really think he is suffering from some wrong somehow, that the audience for House of Gucci isn’t paying attention because of Marvel? Or is he just pissed that Marvel does genre better than him these days? Is it because Alien: Covenant grossed “only” $200+ million, while almost $2.5 BILLION was grossed just between Guardians Vol. 2, Spider-Man: Homecoming and Thor: Ragnorak? I get why a Scorsese is grumpy. Cameron and Ridley Scott? Come off it, guys. I think their professional envy is showing.
    Ridley made his comments in relation to the poor box office reception to The Last Duel. Implying the films like that were missing out because Hollywood is too preoccupied with superhero films and audiences - in particular millenials - fascination with them to the point that is all they watch. I mean, I do see where he is coming from. To a point. However he is forgetting there were numerous factors going against The Last Duel being successful and those are -

    1. The pandemic making people nervous to return to cinemas. Heck, some countries still have their cinemas shut. They were shut here in Australia for nearly 4 months in some states.
    2. The very audiences interested in a film like that are 30s and up. More so those middle aged and onwards. The very group that are being extremely cautious at the moment due to their susceptibility to COVID.
    3. The subject matter of the movie. A film that hinged on whether a woman was raped or not.
    4. Promotion. The film went under the radar. Most didn't even know it had come out until after it was in theatres. I didn't see any trailers until the week it was to be released.

    Is Hollywood obsessed with superhero films? Yes. But they are no different to any big budget blockbuster release and those have been a staple year in, year out since the 1970s.

  4. #109
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I loved both.
    My opinion is in the minority.
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Visuals are only once piece of the puzzle, possibly the least important.
    Cecil B Demile is single handily praised from defining the big Hollywood visuals block buster films, every current big budget film owes a debit to what Demile did and Demile had to mastermind visual and story. To say, visuals are not a big part of it will mean many films like Greatest Show on Earth, The Ten Commandments, Samson and Delilah, Ben Hur, A Spacy Odyssey never happened. these films laid the grounds of later films like Jaws, Jurassic Park, Titanic and these 3 films I just mentioned their visuals were an important part. to say they are least important is to try to wipe out Cece B Demile legacy in cinema and that is impossible. Here is why.



    Also they are superheroes with lots of ridiculous looking villains and world ending fights. they really do need those good visuals even more than the sci-fi or fantasy genre.

    Cecil B Demile was born in the the late 1800s and I am still talking about him and the impact that he has had to film making, what Feige movie has had the same artistic impact? Even in the comic book bubble ,Feige films are barely the strongest in story telling and technical categories.

    No Way Home alone has only made the debate seem more iron clad of why Sam Raimi films films are so beloved after 20 years. Also to sony's favour, shown some of strongest parts of the amazing Spiderman films were still better than the Iron-Junior Disney kid friendly tales Holland was getting.

    Additionally in irony that you mentioned star trek. Yes, star trek 60s was cheap and the visuals, awful even for the 60s but what has made star trek TOS so iconic is that it was a very intellectual show, challenging deep social narrative, real impactful sci-fiction and it was a show for adults.

    MCU is not star trek, MCU is neither as intellectual, story driven or garnered towards adults as star trek, so would we still be watching mcu films from now in 20 years in the context of how people still watch star trek tos/tng/ds9? hmm.


    Still need to get around to Blade Runner.
    Please do, it is one of the best sci fi films in the last 10 years in every content that film should matter. However it is not even about Blade Runner, it is about Dennis just getting better and experimenting more with film making, that is the actual fun here for films fans.

    I heard the MCU Spiderman director is also the new director for the fantastic 4 mcu films. Dont need to see that film to know the films will look and feel exactly like all the other mcu films including the 3 Spiderman films he did. However, I cannot wait to see what Denis does next, even with Dune 2 and also I know Cameron has an ace up his sleeves for his Avatar sequels that is again going to shift cinema. he always does.

    MCU and Feige compared to these 2 men (Cameron and Dennis) seem to be so stale, that they are on to the next gimmick of now trying to connect all the sony and fox characters, to keep the steam. Thoughtfully, how much are they really going to pay Ben Affleck to come back for Daredevil? If this rumours are true, I hope Ben declines and gives the same reason why he is done playing Batman in the DCEU.

    https://www.screengeek.net/2022/01/1...l-cameo-rumor/

    Avatar is a high art visual movie. Just saying. it fulfils the purpose of the art by definition. the artist own personal vision that was balanced by very serious film making.

    Just like how Infinity War and Endame were nothing like the Russo's Winter Soldier (a political thriller)?
    When people say TDK is a cop thriller or a crime drama. that stick first about the film over it been a batman comic-book film. No narrative of marvel has every overshadowed Disney theme message set for the series- Marvel movies are action-comedy fun.

    They might not be jealous (although it's beyond odd that they get angry over another company having success doing something different), but you kinda do. Just saying.
    Maybe because they want more art- films to make money.

    Also, if I was an aspiring filmmaker, there are artists I'd bee looking to long before Cameron's name came up, even in the context of blockbuster popcorn films.
    It was still down to choosing between Cameron or Feige filmography as he was the person of topic here. As for other artists, Would I choose Cameron over Alfred Hitchcock, Billy Wilder, Walt Disney, Steven Spielberg or William Wyler? No. Would I choose him over Feige? Yes.
    Last edited by Castle; 01-23-2022 at 04:42 AM.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Is Hollywood obsessed with superhero films? Yes. But they are no different to any big budget blockbuster release and those have been a staple year in, year out since the 1970s.
    Hollywood may be obsessed with comic films with marvel slaying the box office like butter on a bread, however are auteur film-driven producers obsessed with it? Maybe not. the people that seemed obsessed with it are mostly the shareholders of studios that just want to make the money anyhow they can get it. this is why they rushed the DCEU in the first place. DC share holders saw the money mcu was generating and they wanted their copy ASAP.

    Why has Brad Pitt and George Clooney not drank the kool aid of superhero films as actors turned producers in recent times.
    Last edited by Castle; 01-22-2022 at 06:59 PM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Cecil B Demile is single handily praised from defining the big Hollywood visuals block buster film, every current big budget film owes a debit to what Demile did and Demile had to mastermind visual and story. To say, visuals are not a nig part of it will mean many films like Greatest Show on Earth, The Ten Commandments, Samson and Delilah, Ben Hur, A Spacy Odyssey never happened. these films laid the grounds of later films like Jaws, Jurassic Park, Titanic and these 3 films I just mentioned their visuals were an important part. to say they are least important is to try to wipe out Cece B Demile legacy from cinema and that is impossible. Here is why.



    Also they are superheroes with lots of ridiculous looking villains and world ending fights. they really do need those good visuals even more than the sci-fi or fantasy genre.

    Cecil B Demile was born in the the late 1800s and I am still talking about him and the impact that he has had to film making, what Feige movie has had the same artistic impact? Even in the comic book bubble,Feige films are barely the strongest in story telling and technical categories.
    No Way Home alone has only made the debate seem more iron clad of why Sam Raimi films are so beloved after 20 years. Also to sony's favour, shown some of strongest part of the amazing spiderman films were still better than the Iron-Junior Disney kid friendly tales Holland was getting.

    Additionally in irony that you mentioned star trek. Yes star trek 60s was cheap and the visuals, awful even for the 60s but what has made star trek TOS so iconic is that it was a very intellectual show, challenging deep social narrative, real impactful sci-fiction and it was a show for adults.

    MCU is not star trek, MCU is neither as intellectual, story driven or garnered towards adults as star trek, so would we still be watching mcu films from now in 20 years in the context of how people still watch star trek tos/tng/ds9? hmm.




    Please do, it is one of the best sci fi films in the last 10 years in every content that film should matter. However it is not even about Blade Runner, it is about Dennis just getting better and experiment more with film making, that is the actual fun here for films fans.

    I heard the MCU Spiderman director is also the new director for the fantastic 4 mcu films. Dont need to see that film to know the films will look and feel exactly like all the other mcu films including the 3 Spiderman films he did. However, I cannot wait to see what Denis does next, even with Dune 2 and also I know Cameron has an ace up his sleeves for his Avatar sequels that is again to to shift cinema. he always does.
    MCU and Feige compared to these 2 men (Cameron and Dennis) seem to be so stale, that they are on to the next gimmick of now trying to connect all the sony and fox characters, to keep the steam. Thoughtfully, how much are they really going to pay Ben Affleck to come back for Daredevil? If this rumors are true, I hope Ben declines and gives the same reason why he is done playing Batman in the DCEU.

    https://www.screengeek.net/2022/01/1...l-cameo-rumor/

    Avatar is a high art visual movie. Just saying. it fulfils the purpose of the art by definition. the artist own personal vision that was balanced by very serious film making.


    When people say TDK is a cop thriller or a crime drama. that stick first about the film over it been a batman comic-book film. No narrative of marvel has every overshadowed Disney theme message set for the series- Marvel movies are action-comedy fun.



    Maybe because they want more art- films to make money.



    It was still down to choosing between Cameron or Feige filmography as he was the person of topic here. As for other artists, Would I choose Cameron over Alfred Hitchock, Billy Wilder, Walt Disney, Steven Spielberg or William Wyler? No. Would I choose him over Feige? Yes.
    Honest question: Why are you so obsessed with "proving" that the MCU movies have nothing worthwhile to them? Isn't part of the point of art on how it speaks to people? Clearly the MCU resonates with audiences, so why not explore why that is rather than trying to argue that they're wrong for liking it more than something like Avatar (which, frankly is a bad movie)?

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  8. #113
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    ...

    MCU and Feige compared to these 2 men (Cameron and Dennis) seem to be so stale
    , that they are on to the next gimmick of now trying to connect all the sony and fox characters, to keep the steam. Thoughtfully, how much are they really going to pay Ben Affleck to come back for Daredevil? If this rumors are true, I hope Ben declines and gives the same reason why he is done playing Batman in the DCEU.

    ...
    Politely...

    Your films cannot get much more stale than just not getting made in all of the years since 2009.

    At least Ridley Scott was actually putting some work out in the time between Prometheus and the point where he just ran that IP into the ditch.

    More than anyone can say for Cameron.

    Dude is essentially telling us about how great the eventual Youngblood comics will be.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Hollywood may be obsessed with comic films with marvel slaying the box office like butter on a bread, however are auteur film-driven producers obsessed with it? Maybe not. the people that seemed obsessed with it are mostly the shareholders of studios that just want to make the money anyhow they can get it. this is why they rushed the DCEU in the first place. DC share holders saw the money mcu was generating and they wanted their copy ASAP.

    Why has Brad Pitt and George Clooney not drank the kool aid of superhero films as actors turned producers in recent times.
    When I said that I meant the big studios.

    As for auteurs? They'll keep on doing as they've always done, I guess. Make films about topics that interest them and do them the way they see those topics being told.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    When I said that I meant the big studios.
    I do agree with the big studios but I have to commend some big studios that can still take risk even with their obsession with money. WB wanted MCU money, they rushed the DCEU, however they did not put all their eggs in that one basket. Joker and The Batman so far still offer more opportunities for auteurs.

    Fox was doing the same before the buy out with X-MEN, They were still trying to keep the main series going but offer alternatives that will not tie too closely with the main series and not cost so much in budget. It is worth a laugh that Dark Phoenix cost more than Deadpool and Logan combined. lol


    Big Studios like the one Feige runs are just stuck now with no alternative, that is pretty depressing and I am not going to consider the multiverse push as an alternative.


    As for auteurs? They'll keep on doing as they've always done, I guess. Make films about topics that interest them and do them the way they see those topics being told.
    This is true but you can have interesting topics in superhero/comic films. Joker is a great example in the last maybe 5 years, it is a movie about a mentally ill man and still a comic film. Feige will never produced Joker and he will never encourage his screen writers to think that far, so why should I put him anywhere near somebody like Billy Wilder who in the 1940s made a great movie like The Lost Weekend, which was one of the first movies to ever tackle alcoholism in a serious way as a lone topic.



    Wilder did it with the Hayes Code still in place, which just feels insane to me now, when I think about it because the film is just so compelling and it is a plot that can be in any film genre, even comic films,... even Marvel, if you have read the comics. Just show you know the Hayes Code was far more toned down and restricted than todays pg 13 that all Feige films are given. so the reality is that Feige even with more technical freedom 75 years later, is practically limited than many producers in the 1940s -1960s.
    Last edited by Castle; 01-23-2022 at 05:39 AM.

  11. #116
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Big Studios like the one Feige runs are just stuck now with no alternative, that is pretty depressing and I am not going to consider the multiverse push as an alternative.
    Wait? Marvel Studios is stuck doing Marvel movies? Wha??
    Because WandaVision, Loki, F&WS and Hawkeye were the exact same show. No diversity.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  12. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Joker is a great example in the last maybe 5 years, it is a movie about a mentally ill man and still a comic film. Feige will never produced Joker and he will never encourage his screen writers to think that far,
    It's hilarious that you constantly claim all the MCU movies are the same, and you to praise Joker which was just The King of Comedy with face paint.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Wait? Marvel Studios is stuck doing Marvel movies? Wha??
    Because WandaVision, Loki, F&WS and Hawkeye were the exact same show. No diversity.
    Right lol it's pretty ridiculous to be comparing Marvel Studios to WB's entire film output. Disney as a whole is the proper comparison.

  14. #119
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    It's hilarious that you constantly claim all the MCU movies are the same, and you to praise Joker which was just The King of Comedy with face paint.
    THIS^^^^ so much. It was so derivative of Scorsese, it could have been a parody. AND it could have been called The Clown and been the same movie with no reference to comic books. The Joker was just a gimmick.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you’ve written here. Except, criticism of the MCU coming from James Cameron and Dennis Villeneve is silly. Those two are as much into the big studio, tent pole productions as any MCU director or producer, more than most of them even. I see very little difference between what those two do and what the Russo brothers or James Gunn have done for the MCU.

    Scorsese criticizing the MCU is something I understand. If a Coppola or a Gus Van Sant, or even a John Boorman — someone of that caliber — were to complain about the MCU or DC Films, I would listen.

    Harsh critiques of the MCU coming from the likes of Cameron and Villeneve just sounds like professional jealousy, envy, and sour grapes to me. Those two are all about the big-budget, tent pole fare. I’m not saying they’re not artists, but they are pop artists at best. I don’t give a damn how many academy awards he has won. James Cameron ain’t no Kurosawa or even a David Lean. Cameron is as much a hack as Jon Favreau, maybe more so. Cameron has never done anything but big-budget schlock. I like popcorn movies more than the average person, but for gossipy snipes like this, consider where Cameron is really coming from. It’s not some place of pure, artistic integrity.
    Exactly.

    Let's not forget that Harlan Ellison successfully sued Orion over the script of Terminator (which Cameron wrote) ripped off his work.

    Cameron is a great genre director but he's done precious little original, non-derivative work in his career (maybe the Abyss is the only truly original thing he's done). Same with Villneueve that has really experienced most of his success in genre film making.

    A lot of these guys are throwing sour grapes because other guys have experienced massive success in genre film making. Period.


    EDIT: The Abyss was also inspired by H.G Wells. I stand corrected.
    Last edited by Username taken; 01-23-2022 at 11:00 AM.

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