Is DC homophobic for breaking up Harley and Ivy?

[AmiMizuno]

No. Harley this time wants to be the good guy and Ivy is still a villain. I do think that was wrong with what they did with Kate. Another issue is that they don't do much with their lgbt characters they already have. And yet Tim can be Bi. But we can't see John in a homosexual relationship before he dated Zatanna. The main issue it seems is they want to focus on going for younger heroes and not just have all ages on this. I thought it was weird when they did the whole JLQ group. It felt weird to divide the JL based on their sexuality.

[millernumber1]

I cannot speak to DC's motivations. I do think that the Jody Houser Harley and Ivy miniseries was just awful - felt like a huge bait and switch - but this one honestly feels like a necessary development. Harley's gone through a LOT of work in the past three to five years, and is in a completely different place morally than she used to be - I think Ivy needs to go on the same journey so they can have a healthy relationship where they're on the same page, roughly.

[sifighter]

Why are people bringing this up now, and not say when they tried to force Harley with Booster Gold?

Honestly having read the story I would just chalk it up to Drama, because they still love each other and will probably get back together, heck Harley even says as much in the issue that there story wasn't over. Ivy just had to leave after finally sorting herself after heroes in crisis/being two ivys but still acting like a criminal while Harley is trying to be a hero and it doesn't quite mesh at this moment but clearly strong feelings are still there that the relationship can continue from when Ivy comes back. Because DC appears to like Harley and Ivy, big part of the tv show, variants and special one-shot stories, hell they even got married in Injustice: year zero.

[marhawkman]

Why are people bringing this up now, and not say when they tried to force Harley with Booster Gold?

Honestly having read the story I would just chalk it up to Drama, because they still love each other and will probably get back together, heck Harley even says as much in the issue that there story wasn't over. Ivy just had to leave after finally sorting herself after heroes in crisis/being two ivys but still acting like a criminal while Harley is trying to be a hero and it doesn't quite mesh at this moment but clearly strong feelings are still there that the relationship can continue from when Ivy comes back. Because DC appears to like Harley and Ivy, big part of the tv show, variants and special one-shot stories, hell they even got married in Injustice: year zero.

Yeah, people are griping about an in-universe event, for reasons divorced from the event itself.

[Darkspellmaster]

I cannot speak to DC's motivations. I do think that the Jody Houser Harley and Ivy miniseries was just awful - felt like a huge bait and switch - but this one honestly feels like a necessary development. Harley's gone through a LOT of work in the past three to five years, and is in a completely different place morally than she used to be - I think Ivy needs to go on the same journey so they can have a healthy relationship where they're on the same page, roughly.

On this i would agree, if this is gonna stick around, their relationship you should not have them at a point where writers can't be sure of how one will react to a situation. This doesn't mean drama can't happen just that it won't be due to them being on completely opposite sides of the coin as it were. Having Ivy be more villain means that she would be more like the joker and that's something they want to avoid.

I do think DC needs to bite the bullets and let characters marry and have kids. No reason they can't or shouldn't.

[Mistah K88]

Not the same thing

They aren't forcing Kate to be hetero
DC did the same to Bruce and Selina mind you

They don't want characters to get married because it will only end one way

What does Bisexuality mean to you? (Also didn't Ivy date the Gardener before?)

That said, Ivy has been defined by Harley for the past few years much like Harley was defined by the Joker beforehand. As people mentioned couples in DC break up all of the time.

[Valentis]

DC is not homophobic to break them up. They always felt more like sisters.

[Badou]

They are way better as friends over being romantic interest for each other. The romance always felt really poorly done and Ivy's character suffered as a result of being forced into a limited role of being Harley's gf/supporting character.

[Rac7d*]

they will be back together eventually
I just wish Ivy figure herself out. She is so powerful, she almost doesnt belong in gotham anymore, they dont want her to be a hero but she cant be villain anymore either

[Captain Nostalgia]

No, Harley's sexuality has never been fixed, she's always sung both ways.

I prefer Harley's relationship with Ivy personally, but....I came to identify Harley with the Joker first, and many writers are going to want to go back to that, or....

as a multimedia poster girl...explore other avenues.

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't see any homophobia here, for whatever reason unless you're Clark Kent and Lois Lane the chances that your relationship will last are pretty much slim to none. If there were all kinds of hetero couples getting to consistently live the good life and they only broke up Ivy and Harley you might have something...but that just isn't the case.

[SiegePerilous02]

Maybe it's because I'm not as invested in the relationship so it doesn't really bother me that much, but I've never bought into the relationship as a paragon of triumphant queer love that enriches both characters.

I'm fine with them as criminal partners and girlfriends, but I don't see the relationship as an absolute thing.

I never did either. Their dynamic was at its most interesting in the DCAU when it was pretty toxic/dysfunctional in its own way as Harley/Joker. Almost everything else it has appeared in has come across as bad fanfic.

Plus I sort of miss Ivy being her own thing instead of an extension of Harley.

[Confuzzled]

I never did either. Their dynamic was at its most interesting in the DCAU when it was pretty toxic/dysfunctional in its own way as Harley/Joker. Almost everything else it has appeared in has come across as bad fanfic.

Nope, that was an outdated view of Ivy from Dini's part in the 90's/early 00's where it was the norm to depict queer women and environmentalists as man-hating or people-hating caricatures. THAT to me seems like a straight man's bad fanfic based on his fantasies about a relationship between a dominating woman and a more submissive one.

Rucka, Brubaker, Simone, Chu and other writers have taken Ivy in a totally different direction in the two decades since, which has also changed her dynamics with Harley into a more positive and healthy one. They are easily the most famous gay couple in pop culture, and DC knows it. This breakup is just part of a long game.

[SiegePerilous02]

Nope, that was an outdated view of Ivy from Dini's part in the 90's/early 00's where it was the norm to depict queer women and environmentalists as man-hating or people-hating caricatures. THAT to me seems like a straight man's bad fanfic based on his fantasies about a relationship between a dominating woman and a more submissive one.

Rucka, Brubaker, Simone, Chu and other writers have taken Ivy in a totally different direction in the two decades since, which has also changed her dynamics with Harley into a more positive and healthy one. They are easily the most famous gay couple in pop culture, and DC knows it. This breakup is just part of a long game.

To each their own. They're two psychopaths and were written as such in their relationship dynamic. There is genuine love there, but it's warped. I don't find their other depictions very interesting probably in part because I personally don't think Harley is very good character outside of the DCAU (yet she's shoved everywhere).

Source on them being the most popular queer couple in pop culture right now? They are undeniably popular, but as far as pop culture goes people still think of her with the Joker before Ivy.

[Frontier]

Nope, that was an outdated view of Ivy from Dini's part in the 90's/early 00's where it was the norm to depict queer women and environmentalists as man-hating or people-hating caricatures. THAT to me seems like a straight man's bad fanfic based on his fantasies about a relationship between a dominating woman and a more submissive one.

Rucka, Brubaker, Simone, Chu and other writers have taken Ivy in a totally different direction in the two decades since, which has also changed her dynamics with Harley into a more positive and healthy one. They are easily the most famous gay couple in pop culture, and DC knows it. This breakup is just part of a long game.

I mean, Ivy's a misandrist, but Harley really isn't that much of one. Although I don't really see much of those writers in how they write Ivy's dynamic with Harley now where it seems like the relationship leans more into Harley and Ivy having to put up with her.