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  1. #31
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I mean, even if we ignore his major screw ups, a lot of Slott's stories are just meh and may follow awkward logic ("Otto stole my body, left me to die, killed people while in my body and fucked over my relationships with my family, but he made aunt May stop limping, so he's pretty cool"), and his Peter only seemed to react to stuff if the plot required it.

    It's why I think his Otto is a better protagonist than his Peter, Otto felt more like a developed character.
    Awkward logic might as well be a trope of the medium. And if a comic is "meh," it's not bad. It's meh. But I think most of Slott's Spidey work is better than meh, personally.

    The way I see it, if a reader is determined not to like something, they'll find their reasons. I like liking comics, and when something painful happens (like Hornet's death, which still hurts), I imagine how a writer might one day fix it. I'm also willing to forgive writers for being human, having editors to deal with, and all the potential difficulties that can happen when trying to create something.

    As far as Otto goes, many here are of the mindset that Slott prefers Otto to Peter, then use that as a strike against him. I prefer to be thankful that a writer in my lifetime FINALLY created stories for Doc Ock that show why he belongs in the top tier of Spidey villains. Otto had pretty much been a nonfactor in my 30 years of reading Spidey comics.

    Perspective.

    -Pav, who guesses this is his "Controversial Spidey Opinion"...

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    No, no, no, keep the bad man away. As much as I’m lukewarm on Spidey these days, just seeing Papa Smurf’s mug reminds me how much worse things used to be. I don’t think everything he did was bad, but just like Howard Mackie, his last few years on the book were so aggressively awful they ruined any positive legacy he may have had if he had just quit while he was at his peak (for Slott that would’ve been just at the conclusion of Superior).
    I do fully agree that Slott's best work ended with the ending of Superior Spider-Man. My guess is that everything up to that point had been one long story mostly planned in his head for a while, and that everything that came after was him just "having fun."

    Still, I don't dislike the majority of the stories post-Superior, and I can forgive the bad Black Cat stories because that partially seems an editorial situation.
    Last edited by Pav; 01-10-2022 at 03:59 PM.
    You were Spider-Man then. You and Peter had agreed on it. But he came back right when you started feeling comfortable.
    You know what it means when he comes back
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    "You're not the better one, Peter. You're just older."
    --------------------
    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my school! DM for details

  2. #32
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    No. Nope. No.

  3. #33
    Fantastic Member primenumber101's Avatar
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    For miniseries or One-Shots? Maybe.

    As the full fledged writer? Not really. I think Slott leave his mark on Spider-Man lore (for better or worse) already. I dont necessary think he should come back.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    No, no, no, keep the bad man away. As much as I’m lukewarm on Spidey these days, just seeing Papa Smurf’s mug reminds me how much worse things used to be. I don’t think everything he did was bad, but just like Howard Mackie, his last few years on the book were so aggressively awful they ruined any positive legacy he may have had if he had just quit while he was at his peak (for Slott that would’ve been just at the conclusion of Superior).
    Yes, that was the time to go. I hate TASM (Vol. 3) and TASM (Vol. 4).

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Awkward logic might as well be a trope of the medium.
    Yeah, and when it reaches bullshit logic levels like the one I mentioned, that goes against how the character usually acts, we have a problem.

    And if a comic is "meh," it's not bad. It's meh.
    Yeah, being "meh" also means "not interesting", and for any medium trying to entertain, that's bad lol.

    But I think most of Slott's Spidey work is better than meh, personally.

    The way I see it, if a reader is determined not to like something, they'll find their reasons.
    They will, and it can be unfair if a writer actually manages to make something cool and readers judge the writer based on previous bad stuff, the way I judge Slott is the way I judge anyone else, at best, I'm wary if he or she screwed up, but at the moment I start reading I try to enjoy it, Slott, just fails a lot to keep me interested when I give him chances, though there is fun stuff here and there.

    I like liking comics, and when something painful happens (like Hornet's death, which still hurts), I imagine how a writer might one day fix it. I'm also willing to forgive writers for being human, having editors to deal with, and all the potential difficulties that can happen when trying to create something.
    I mean, Ultimatum happened because Loeb's son died and he was grieving, does that make the story's edginess understandable? Yes. Does it make the story stop being garbage that permanently damaged the Ultimate universe? No.

    Jobs can be hard, **** happens, no one is perfect, we can have a lot of reasonings and/or excuses, but if someone reads a story and detests it, even if there are a million excuses and/or reasonings, that's fair, same fair that it's fair to keep what happens on the background in mind to be for forgiving of bad stories.

    As far as Otto goes, many here are of the mindset that Slott prefers Otto to Peter, then use that as a strike against him. I prefer to be thankful that a writer in my lifetime FINALLY created stories for Doc Ock that show why he belongs in the top tier of Spidey villains. Otto had pretty much been a nonfactor in my 30 years of reading Spidey comics.
    Him making Otto higher profile is fine (I did think it was nice how he found ways to use the Sinister Six to counter pick the Avengers), it's just silly when he does stuff at the cost of Peter being screwed over for that to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by primenumber101 View Post
    For miniseries or One-Shots? Maybe.

    As the full fledged writer? Not really. I think Slott leave his mark on Spider-Man lore (for better or worse) already. I dont necessary think he should come back.
    Yeah, and even if he does come back, it's better to let other writers have their chance for a while before that happens, because if say, he comes back now, all that we had between the last time he wrote was Spencer, and a bunch of other random writers from Beyond.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  6. #36
    Incredible Member SplinteringHeart's Avatar
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    No, no, no!

    No Way!

    NO THANK YOU!

    Not on your Nelly!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Awkward logic might as well be a trope of the medium. And if a comic is "meh," it's not bad. It's meh. But I think most of Slott's Spidey work is better than meh, personally.

    The way I see it, if a reader is determined not to like something, they'll find their reasons.
    Or maybe a reader just doesn't like poor storytelling and being charged $3.99 month after month for years for it.

    Slott confuses his kewl concepts - what if all the multiverse variations of Spider-Man get together and fight an enemy? What if Doc Ock takes over Peter's body? - with storytelling. But a concept is not a story. A story is roughly organized as beginning, rising action, climax, falling action, denouement. In serialized comics, the current story builds on the stories that came before.

    Instead Slott is: Action. Repeat action. Repeat action. Repeat action. A convenient coincidence falls from the sky and solves the problem. The end. Start all over again as if the last set of actions didn't happen.

    For example, Spider-Verse. Inheritors find multiverse Spider-People. Multiverse Spider-People are annihilated by the Inheritors and run away. Multiverse Spider-People come up with ineffectual plan. Inheritors find multiverse Spider-People. Multiverse Spider-People are annihilated by the Inheritors and run away. Multiverse Spider-People come up with ineffectual plan. Inheritors find multiverse Spider-People. Multiverse Spider-People are annihilated by the Inheritors and run away. Multiverse Spider-People come up with ineffectual plan. Inheritors find multiverse Spider-People. Multiverse Spider-People are annihilated by the Inheritors and run away. Silk just happens by pure convenient coincidence to land on a nuked planet and comes up with an idea to take down the Inheritors (let's forget Peter should already know the Inheritors are susceptible to radiation since that's how he previously defeated Morlun). Jessica Drew just happens by pure convenient coincidence to simultaneously land on a planet and is handed a scroll that explains the prophecy. Spiders finally win thanks to all the convenient coincidences.

    I can write the same outline for nearly every one of Slott's "stories" because they're the equivalent of someone's narration while playing with their Legos. Nothing about his characters ring true. Take Peter's reaction to the events of Superior: "Otto was a jerk." Compare that to Peter's reaction in Kraven's Last Hunt and Peter lost only two weeks in that story.

    Not every comic has to be a masterpiece. There are going to be inconsistencies and continuity errors. There are going to be some stories that stick the landing and others that flub it. But there needs to be at least a wink at the idea of consistent characterization and a coherent timeline, and some acknowledgment that some aspect of the characters' lives actually happened to them. "Awkward logic" is Harry somehow knowing Norman would return from the dead so he created Gabriel and Sarah. Peter not having a believable human reaction to having his identity stolen, his relationships with Felicia and MJ ruined, and pretty much having been dead for several months is simply bad writing.

    I give Slott credit for some creative, fun ideas. His execution sucks. That's why he should never be an editor as the editor's job is to execute. They need to ensure the story is in publishable shape and then get the book out the door to readers.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 01-10-2022 at 05:38 PM.

  8. #38
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Slott writes Spidey like a kid's cartoon more so than an adult soap opera.

    *shrugs*

    Doesn't seem like something worth hating his work over, especially in a medium in which you have to balance the "current story" with years of continuity. Again, it's easy to criticize. I'd love to get a shot at being in the ASM writing chair someday, and I guess I'd hope others would be able to appreciate whatever stories I was able to get published.

    In the end, another reader not taking pleasure in their comic reading is none of my business.

    -Pav, who is able to love Slott's work and the work of someone like JMD despite the drastic changes in tone...
    You were Spider-Man then. You and Peter had agreed on it. But he came back right when you started feeling comfortable.
    You know what it means when he comes back
    .

    "You're not the better one, Peter. You're just older."
    --------------------
    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my school! DM for details

  9. #39
    Spectacular Member Kanos's Avatar
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    Slott came up with a lot of good ideas that Insomniac and the 2017 animated series are now using. I am grateful to him for that, his series is not boring to read, but he does not understand Peter Parker, this is the main problem. I don't mind if he writes a miniseries, but I don't want him to be the main author or editor of ASM. Marvel needs to be given a chance to other creators.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Awkward logic might as well be a trope of the medium. And if a comic is "meh," it's not bad. It's meh. But I think most of Slott's Spidey work is better than meh, personally.

    The way I see it, if a reader is determined not to like something, they'll find their reasons. I like liking comics, and when something painful happens (like Hornet's death, which still hurts), I imagine how a writer might one day fix it. I'm also willing to forgive writers for being human, having editors to deal with, and all the potential difficulties that can happen when trying to create something.

    As far as Otto goes, many here are of the mindset that Slott prefers Otto to Peter, then use that as a strike against him. I prefer to be thankful that a writer in my lifetime FINALLY created stories for Doc Ock that show why he belongs in the top tier of Spidey villains. Otto had pretty much been a nonfactor in my 30 years of reading Spidey comics.

    Perspective.

    -Pav, who guesses this is his "Controversial Spidey Opinion"...

    EDIT:



    I do fully agree that Slott's best work ended with the ending of Superior Spider-Man. My guess is that everything up to that point had been one long story mostly planned in his head for a while, and that everything that came after was him just "having fun."

    Still, I don't dislike the majority of the stories post-Superior, and I can forgive the bad Black Cat stories because that partially seems an editorial situation.
    You’re a Ben Reilly fan. Can you forgive Clone Conspiracy because I can’t.

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    I liked his run, but I don't think this would be a great idea.

    He's said what he wanted about the character.

    He's also not very prolific. It seems obvious the most profitable model for Spider-Man is an Amazing Spider-Man with 2-4 issues a month, and Slott would struggle with that. Marvel lost some money because Slott is not as prolific as Nick Spencer (they've gained money because of the sales of success of Superior Spider-Man and Spider Island, to say nothing of concepts adopted to other media.) Working on Spider-Man would also prevent him from doing other books, given his schedule.

    The man loves Spider-Man, and Marvel likes him, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of return. But it'll probably take a while, and it won't be as open-ended as a typical Spider-Man run.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  12. #42
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    You’re a Ben Reilly fan. Can you forgive Clone Conspiracy because I can’t.
    One thing I love about Marvel comic book continuity is that any story can eventually become useful and perhaps even liked by the masses when a future writer polishes it just right.

    -Pav, who really liked the premise of Clone Conspiracy...
    You were Spider-Man then. You and Peter had agreed on it. But he came back right when you started feeling comfortable.
    You know what it means when he comes back
    .

    "You're not the better one, Peter. You're just older."
    --------------------
    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my school! DM for details

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Marvel isn't really gonna let a situation like Conway who started to write ASM at like what, at his 20's? Specially a big name book like ASM lol.
    I don't necessarily think Marvel should have some 20 year old Gen Z write the comic, but then, I also don't think it should be about "youth" the way Marvel does. They're pretty hypocritical. I'd be fine with Grant Morrison (or whoever) writing the comic if it was about the mid-30s Peter the way JMS was writing him, as had been done for about 20 years prior to that where the old writers didn't need him to be up on the hippest of hip trends and lingo.

    Back to Slott, I think he excels in a situation where he doesn't have much room to put "his" spin on a character where he thinks he knows best, and the Spidey comics became more about a weird one-upmanship dialogue with the readers than just telling stories. I thought his best work by far was his Batman comics, particularly the Adventures and Arkham Asylum run. He both had to a) dial the lame humor way down, and b) work within a continuity where he was under a strict series of rules and defined characterization that he had to play by. His Spider-Man was neither fish nor fowl, with things like the Ock/Spidey body swap or Verse not even really fitting into the Stan Lee interpretation of the world, but instead of going dark, littered with him "bringing the funny." How many times could we stand J. Jonah regressing into "Bah! That web headed weasel!" over and over and over before it got draining? The tone was hokey and 2-d AND smug.

  14. #44
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Whole lotta people talking about Slott like he beat their dog or something. Dude wrote some comics you disliked, it's not a personal attack. Lol.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

    "I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"

    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    Whole lotta people talking about Slott like he beat their dog or something. Dude wrote some comics you disliked, it's not a personal attack. Lol.
    I am not one of Dan Slott’s biggest fans ( I gave him a grade of F for his entire run). That said, He did some good work: RYV, Spider-Island and Superior ( he also came up with Mr. Sinister), but I simply think someone new is needed. Why? If for no other reason, people run out of ideas and ( or) stories become stale. Think about early Spencer compared to late Spencer. I mentioned a few things I wanted to see yesterday: I would add a clean slate to the list with no OMD and Mephisto. Will Peter make mistakes? Of course, that goes back to Amazing Fantasy 15, but he does not needed to be saddled down with unnecessary drama.

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