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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Invincible Beawulf View Post
    Yeah, I noticed that shipping same sex couples (especially male ones) just irks some people on the DC CBR threads...





    Great ideas, I like especially the Catman one .

    I think I've already mentioned on the 2021 thread, but I'd have Malcolm Hutch return in the current Nightwing ongoing. He could be a great supporting character - not a Bat character, but a Nightwing one.

    Edit: I falsely assumed that Hutch is queer, it wasn't confirmed and specified explicitly on-panel(it wasn't mentioned he's straight either).
    Edit: I falsely assumed that Hutch is queer, it wasn't confirmed and specified explicitly on-panel(it wasn't mentioned he's straight either).
    is he? I dont think it was ever mentioned, I would love for him to return to Nightwing mythos, he was the only one I liked
    I wouldnt even mind if he shared the mantle, we need more vigilantes in bludhaven

  2. #272
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCasualReader View Post
    If they want it to come up, they can do it the same way they would a straight kid: a crush. You don't even have to dedicate much time to it since he's a little kid so it doesn't have to go anywhere.

    It'd actually be nice to see, considering how people still, for some goddamn reason, think a fictional kid having a gay crush is somehow inherently sexual

    Nobody has a problem with straight kids having crushes: Dipper Pines, Maple Pines, literally most movies and shows featuring a kid protagonist.

    Since I'm on this tirade: I both get and don't get people who say that Jon couldn't be an openly bisexual character if he was aged back down because he absolutely could be. Whether or not he would be comes down to whether or not DC would apply a homophobic double standard.

    EDIT: Didn't the young Robins (early teens) have love interests?
    Oh yeah, people don't think twice if straight kids in media have a crush/puppy love storyline. It is indeed a homophobic agenda to insinuate that depicting a queer kid having a same sex crush in the same manner is the g-word or whatever nonsense homophobes come up with. That kind of insidious "concern" should never be tolerated.

    I'm just not sure DC animation will actually go there with 11-year-old Jon in a Super Sons movie though. I may be wrong, in which case I would be delighted and this would be pretty groundbreaking for superhero stories, especially for those aimed at younger kids.

  3. #273
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    On one hand, I like Chaos so DC should have Jon crush on Damien so I can see people attack each other over it.

    On the other hand, I prefer the friendship angle of the comics and the GNs so I'd rather they stick with that.
    "Cable was right!"

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    I actually hadn't considered the simplicity of them just letting Jon develop and showcase a crush (one-sided or not) on Damian through the course of the film. It's extremely simple, but often times, you get so used to social conditioning that even when you're trying to better break that stuff down for yourself and in general, you end up following through with it just as often as breaking away and not seeing obvious things like this.
    I didn't mean Damian specifically - it can be Damian, sure, but Jon can have a gay crush on literally anyone, even a superhero older than him, because it's just a crush so the film can decide if it wants to make it a relationship or if it wants it to stay within a simple crush that may only be on-screen for about five minutes.

    What a lot of media and people don't get is that rep is so easy if you treat the characters like you would straight/cis characters because those characters are allowed to do things like tease each other and make jokes, so even if the writers don't have the characters develop crushes or romantic relationships, their sexuality is still conveyed (most writers don't even think notice this)

    Jon's bisexuality could be conveyed just by a simple conversation between him and Damian where Damian teases him for having crushes on people (ex. present crush male, past crush female)

    Most people don't notice how heterosexuality in media is always explicit/overt. I didn't even start to until a movie reviewer kept making reverse-style jokes about how Disney romances were forced heterosexuality/heterosexual agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    Just by virtue of being a character in the film, his bisexuality will come up because he IS his bisexuality. That's something that doesn't change or can be ignored because of age. Hopefully the popularity of BoSS will force DC to admit defeat and just de-age Jon because seeing Jon grow up and age naturally as a bi Superboy is infinitely more interesting and impactful than whatever is supposedly being done in the comics.
    After so much bad and/or weak rep through the years, especially in children's media, I want actual content before I consider it legit representation. I don't want Word of Gay, I don't want "subtle," I don't want allegories or metaphors, I don't want "Slow Burn" - I just want LGBTQ characters who are treated with the same open writing as straight/cis characters.



    That's my personal thing, though.
    Last edited by TheCasualReader; 07-04-2022 at 07:41 AM.

  5. #275
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    One amusing side benefit of depicting Kid Jon as having same sex crushes is it's gonna foil the bigots who insist he should be deaged just because they don't want him dating a dude, and separate them from the folks who genuinely prefer Lil Jon to Teen Jon for non-homophobic reasons.

  6. #276
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Jon's sexuality has more of a chance to come up in the Legion cartoon than in this in my opinion.

  7. #277
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCasualReader View Post
    After so much bad and/or weak rep through the years, especially in children's media, I want actual content before I consider it legit representation. I don't want Word of Gay, I don't want "subtle," I don't want allegories or metaphors, I don't want "Slow Burn" - I just want LGBTQ characters who are treated with the same open writing as straight/cis characters.



    That's my personal thing, though.
    Speaking for myself as a gay man, I don't want GAY characters (though I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth), I want gay CHARACTERS. And that's a ridiculously easy thing to do, you just make a character as you would any other character. How often do stories featuring cishet characters actually focus on the fact that they're cishet? I'd rather they explicitly say words like "gay" and "bisexual" (something that is sorely lacking in all the stories featuring aged up Jon), but they don't need to say those words specifically in order to be queer. There's a myriad of non-verbal ways of showing queer rep.

    The Hollow


    Amphibia


    The Mitchells vs. the Machines


    Actually, the character in The Hollow does flat out say he's gay, but that screenshot is the first shot we see of that character in the second season, so a pride flag in a character's bedroom is a good indicator of a character's sexuality. Stickers and pins are also just as valid depictions of queerness, so as long as Jon is a character in the movie (which he is), we're not totally bereft of options for representation without having to shift the entire narrative of the movie to include a forced romantic storyline (something I despise even with cishet characters).

    I'm not coming to BoSS for the same queer rep as the Owl House. I'm coming for the Super Sons, a story about the friendship of the sons of Superman and Batman. I don't need the movie to make a point of Jon's queerness like the Owl House does with having Luz and Amity constantly reaffirming and referring to each other as girlfriends after an entire season of them befriending each other and later discovering they have feelings for each other (a real Slow Burn if I've ever seen one) because that's not the point of the Super Sons. In terms of Super Sons storytelling, Jon's bisexuality is just as relevant as his black hair. It's just a fact about the character. There's more to the character and the story than his orientation and that's what I want out of the movie.

    I'd love for stories about Jon's bisexuality, but I don't trust anyone at DC or WB, except for maybe James Tynion IV, an actual bi man, to even attempt to do that, so I would go with more stories with queer characters than stories about queer character, but those would be great too so we should elevate the works of queer creators that do tell those stories. Until then, just increasing the number of queer characters in media is just as important as telling queer stories.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Invincible Beawulf View Post
    I'm hoping long time Tim/Kon shippers (like you) get this at least, you deserve it. Period.

    Personally, I don't care about this whole shipping thingy (DickBabs, DicKory, BatCat, BatWonder, TimBer, TimSteph, TimKon, JonJay, etc, etc). If someone loves a pairing, it's fine.

    However, I don't like people attacking a particular ship or the shippers themselves. I also hate when people act like toxic shippers and just fanatically hate a pairing like a religion.

    Love is love and comics are for fun.
    Well there seems to be plenty of disdain for established couples like Ivy & Harley especially on this forum.

    Comics are for fun. They aren’t always unless you think a title like Maus is supposed to be funny. Sorry it’s a pet peeve when people describe comics as just funny titles.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    Speaking for myself as a gay man, I don't want GAY characters (though I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth), I want gay CHARACTERS. And that's a ridiculously easy thing to do, you just make a character as you would any other character. How often do stories featuring cishet characters actually focus on the fact that they're cishet? I'd rather they explicitly say words like "gay" and "bisexual" (something that is sorely lacking in all the stories featuring aged up Jon), but they don't need to say those words specifically in order to be queer. There's a myriad of non-verbal ways of showing queer rep.

    The Hollow


    Amphibia


    The Mitchells vs. the Machines


    Actually, the character in The Hollow does flat out say he's gay, but that screenshot is the first shot we see of that character in the second season, so a pride flag in a character's bedroom is a good indicator of a character's sexuality. Stickers and pins are also just as valid depictions of queerness, so as long as Jon is a character in the movie (which he is), we're not totally bereft of options for representation without having to shift the entire narrative of the movie to include a forced romantic storyline (something I despise even with cishet characters).

    I'm not coming to BoSS for the same queer rep as the Owl House. I'm coming for the Super Sons, a story about the friendship of the sons of Superman and Batman. I don't need the movie to make a point of Jon's queerness like the Owl House does with having Luz and Amity constantly reaffirming and referring to each other as girlfriends after an entire season of them befriending each other and later discovering they have feelings for each other (a real Slow Burn if I've ever seen one) because that's not the point of the Super Sons. In terms of Super Sons storytelling, Jon's bisexuality is just as relevant as his black hair. It's just a fact about the character. There's more to the character and the story than his orientation and that's what I want out of the movie.

    I'd love for stories about Jon's bisexuality, but I don't trust anyone at DC or WB, except for maybe James Tynion IV, an actual bi man, to even attempt to do that, so I would go with more stories with queer characters than stories about queer character, but those would be great too so we should elevate the works of queer creators that do tell those stories. Until then, just increasing the number of queer characters in media is just as important as telling queer stories.
    No Luz and Amity do not just define themselves by their queerness, and nor does the show. They have characters outside of that. Nor is it a slow burn in fact by the terms of these shows it is actually quite quick considering in a lot of past shows same sex couples often don’t get together until the final episode. If you’re going to make a point try and not do it by misrepresenting something else.

  10. #280
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Hat View Post
    No Luz and Amity do not just define themselves by their queerness, and nor does the show. They have characters outside of that. Nor is it a slow burn in fact by the terms of these shows it is actually quite quick considering in a lot of past shows same sex couples often don’t get together until the final episode. If you’re going to make a point try and not do it by misrepresenting something else.
    ...what?

    I'm not going to get into an argument about a Disney show in a DC thread because you want to misunderstand what I said.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    On one hand, I like Chaos so DC should have Jon crush on Damien so I can see people attack each other over it.

    On the other hand, I prefer the friendship angle of the comics and the GNs so I'd rather they stick with that.
    To be fair, Jon developing a crush on Damian wouldn't really change or effect their developing friendship in and of itself, regardless of whether or not Jon's crush proves to be one-sided or not.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Jon's sexuality has more of a chance to come up in the Legion cartoon than in this in my opinion.
    But since that cartoon is being made for and marketed as "adult", that runs into the issue of the presumption that queerness, especially male queerness, is and should be landlocked to "things for adults".

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    ...what?

    I'm not going to get into an argument about a Disney show in a DC thread because you want to misunderstand what I said.
    I understood very well what you said thank you. Need I remind you, that you were the person who introduced Disney into this thread and now suddenly you decide that this is off topic.
    Last edited by Top Hat; 07-07-2022 at 03:24 AM.

  14. #284
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Hat View Post
    I understood very well what you said thank you. Need I remind you, that you were the person who introduced Disney into this thread and now suddenly you decide that this is off topic.
    Oooooooooo, you got me!

  15. #285
    Eye-rolling bajuszbetyár The Invincible Beawulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Openly bisexual actor Jack Dylan Grazer (Kid Eddie from It: Chapter I, Freddy Freeman from the Shazam! film) is voicing Jon Kent in the upcoming animated movie Batman and Superman: Battle of the Super Sons



    Jon's just 11 in this film so I doubt his sexuality will come up but it's cool they got a bisexual actor to voice him. Grazer is one of my favorite young actors so I hope he voices Jon for many more movies to come.
    Thanks for sharing the video and btw, I didn't know that Grazer is bisexual.

    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    I think it could be used in a reverent kind of way, like with Hutch to Sapienza, since Hutch is remarking in regards to Sapienza's feat of being Nightwing and culling criminal activity successfully as something beautiful. Thus, Hutch remarks that Sapienza's a beautiful man for having pulled of such an amazing (aka beautiful) feat against the odds.

    So while we can't tell for sure if there was another meaning/if there was meant to be multiple meanings, I get the feeling the meaning/main meaning of "beautiful man" in this context is meant to be synonymous to "amazing/incredible man". I do recall hearing this synonym before in at least a fictional context. (It probably also in real life, too, mostly in the past, as otherwise it likely wouldn't have been used here, even if such a turn of phrase might be contextually old fashioned nowadays.)
    Thanks for your feedback. It helped a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Hat View Post
    Comics are for fun. They aren’t always unless you think a title like Maus is supposed to be funny. Sorry it’s a pet peeve when people describe comics as just funny titles.
    Okay, you're right. (When I made the comment "comics are for fun", I was referring to American superhero comics written about fictional characters.)
    BL and comics fan. 🌈 ----- For those saying BL is "pandering to fujos! Too girly! It's fetishization!!!" --> https://www.fujoshi.info/ (a website with academic resources on Queer Media Studies in Asia and LGBTQIA+ history)


    The queer body has been used as a battleground, has been criminalized, ostracized, and many times erased from their own histories. -- Alesha Byrne (University of San Francisco)

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